God, space and time

[kvn_m]

Do you think it's possible that space and time are without end too?

God created the universe. I have always assumed that God created everything else, since He created the universe. But I always wondered things like when did God create time and where did God create space? I don't think these things can be answered but it's not relevant to my question.

I wondered. With the concept of eternal God, I imagine God to be able to tranverse through time that He is not limited by time. With the concept of omnipresent God, I imagine that God to be able to anywhere and everywhere through space that He is not limited by space.

But does this mean that God are within time and space, but He was only not bound by them?

Perhaps this is one of the mysteries of God that we will not know before we face God because it's hard to imagine something without space and time. Even though it was mentioned that heavens have golden grass, the new Jerusalem, etc. was not without the concept of space. Eternal life and eternal death also have a concept of time, that time must play a part.

It's just in my imagination, if this is so, then space and time are as indestructible as God. I'm not talking about the universe = space. Just, space. A container for something to exist.

What do you people think?

 

[I am free]

It's just in my imagination, if this is so, then space and time are as indestructible as God. I'm not talking about the universe = space. Just, space. A container for something to exist.

What do you people think?

I think space and time are man made "concepts" which help us better understand our world. It is we who are constrained by space and time. Not God.

I dont know if such a thing as time actually exists other than in our minds.

 

[kvn_m]

Yeah. Probably God writes about the spiritual world in our context, so that we can roughly imagine a life no longer bound by space and time. However, "no longer bound by space and time", how will that mean that "space and time" no longer exist?

The concept of eternity is "forever". The concept of "forever" is chained with the concept of time, except it's never ending. That you cannot say "forever" or "eternal" without the concept of time. Right?

 

[path_of_one]

I think God exists outside of the concepts of space and time. Eternity, to me, is without beginning and without end- really, without time at all. For all we know God experiences all events simultaneously in each moment. I think it is primarily having our spirits put into physical bodies that causes us to think of time as linear- and even then, this is molded by our culture. Many other cultures are apt to think of time as cyclical. And then, really, we know in physics that time and space are related as one fabric, so to speak. If God exists without beginning and without end, both in time and in space, then the concepts don't really apply at all, right? We only perceive them as such because of our current limitations.

 

[kvn_m]

So space is not a necessity even though it was mentioned about the New Jerusalem's size?

Or probably it's just something whacko. I mean you can't imagine it now that God can be beyond space and time, but space and time do not necessarily vanish after everything in the material world does, in the sense that we, and the angels and the fallen angels will still be living in space and time.

Right now, the concept of angels and devils are that they are not bound by space and time, but not omnipresent and not omniscient. They're not all-powerful either. "Not omnipresent" requires the concept of space in that you cannot be everywhere, isn't it?

And "Omnipresent" requirs the concept of space, in that, there is space, and that you can be everywhere, or everywhere.

I think, then, it is possible that He is still beyond space and time, and that the definitions we give now are only so because of our conception regarding space and time. Then again, it means we'd never know until we see Him I guess.. cause it's so damn hard/impossible to imagine something existing without space and time.

 

[path_of_one]

I think part of the question depends on your belief's definitions or conceptualizations of God, spirit-entities (like angels and demons), and souls. I'm not a very literal, physical-oriented type person.

My mind has a difficult time wrapping itself around being outside space and time, but in my spiritual experience of God that is precisely what I have experienced and intuitively known- a feeling of being without space or time in God's presence. Difficult to explain, but wasn't that difficult to experience- but of course experiencing God (at least for me) is always like this.

I'm also very conscious that the ordinary way we think of time and space, particularly things like time being linear and cause-effect being stable, are not necessarily that way, even in the physical universe. At certain levels of physics, cause-effect and linear time break down, so I know- even though it's hard to imagine- that time doesn't work the way I often perceive it to be. Space is also nebulous- our perceptions are not necessarily accurate, and there's interesting things like black holes that have strange occurances in both space and time to consider as well.

I figure if my little human mind can conjure up through science and imagination lots of interesting space-time oddities, then almost certainly God is beyond them all, and it is a product of my perceptions that causes me to currently view reality a certain way rather than an accurate portrayal of how things actually are.

 

[kvn_m]

Yeah I guess so. By definition, God is not chained by anything. But we have to chain Him with something to conceptualize and to help us imagine what He's like.

Cuz we can't imagine a time without time. Or somewhere without space.

Sigh. This'd remain a mystery for me then.

 

[Plaidback]

Do you think it's possible that space and time are without end too?
God created the universe. I have always assumed that God created everything else, since He created the universe. But I always wondered things like when did God create time and where did God create space? I don't think these things can be answered but it's not relevant to my question.
What do you people think?

God is the word for something that no one will ever know, and @ the same time
it is all over, including us.
In John 14:6,7, Spirit that was in flesh of Jesus of Nazareth, combination which
I feel as The God, told his disciples, " I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No one can come to the father except trough me. If you really knew me*, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know Him, and have seen
Him."
* - After God " left us ", 2000 years ago, No one really found out who was
Jesus, meaning, How does our flesh feel in existance without Time. Simon-Peter came closest to that " feeling ", while walking on water.
Now, to me, walking on water is not lack of gravity, it is simply fact, that you are like God, you dont have time you exist forever, meaning you are existing
on any spot on Earth, as you wish. Something like a dream.
I guess, with same logic, question " what is Space ? ", can really be answered only by God, and those who know Him.

 

[tectrikz]

Time gets slower and slower as you approach the speed of light. It theoretically stops at the speed of light, so you see God is moving at 299 792 458 m/s.

 

[Plaidback]

Time gets slower and slower as you approach the speed of light. It theoretically stops at the speed of light, so you see God is moving at 299 792 458 m/s.

Maybe is just me, but I got feeling, there is lotsa folks here, who Believe
that God have created Light, and almost same amount that believe that
God is the Light , so can you be so kind and calculate, how fast was God
moving, when He was creating Light, or even better, how fast was He moving
when He was creating Darkness ?
You see, what I feel is that God is Everything, means He exist as Everything.
He can not be moving, because moving requires Time.

 

[tectrikz]

Maybe is just me, but I got feeling, there is lotsa folks here, who Believe
that God have created Light, and almost same amount that believe that
God is the Light , so can you be so kind and calculate, how fast was God
moving, when He was creating Light, or even better, how fast was He moving
when He was creating Darkness ?
You see, what I feel is that God is Everything, means He exist as Everything.
He can not be moving, because moving requires Time.

- Almost same amount that believe that God is the Light

If god is light then he is moving at the speed of light (299 792 458 m / s).

- How fast was God moving, when He was creating light, or even better, how fast was He moving

when He was creating Darkness ?

I personally believe that there has always been darkness so to calculate the speed he was moving when he created darkness would be pointless because he did not create it. As for the speed he was moving when he created light. Well he was moving at 299 792 458 m / s because to him time was not going backwards nor forwards because he spans all time. Time does not exist at the speed of light and God is above time so how can he be going faster and going backwards in time or going slower and going forwards in time?

-You see, what I feel is that God is Everything, means He exist as Everything. He can not be moving, because moving requires Time.

At the speed of light time does not go forwards nor does it go backwards so if you are moving at the speed of light time doesn’t affect you. It does not exist as we know it at 299 792 458 m/s, 1,079,252,848.8 km/h, approximately 186,282.4 miles per second, or 670,616,629.38 miles per hour which ever you prefer. So he can be moving at the speed of light but unaffected by time as we know it.

 

[kvn_m]

... darkness is not created. darkness is the absence of light. =/

 

[Plaidback]

... darkness is not created. darkness is the absence of light. =/

According to Genesis, heavens and earth were created before light. Darkness
exist regardless of presence of light. Light is nothing but special effect, needed for creation of another special effect - Life.
All special effects have expiration date, darkness does not.
Metaphoricaly, Light, which is God, that are Truth and True Love, does not require Sun or lightbulb to create that brightest light, in our thoughts, when we close our eyes, and feel It .
When thinking of darkness, we shouldn't forget that God is everything, darkness
included.

 

[smkolins]

And the universe could be an eleven dimensional system so our three dimensions might be a tiny, undeveloped corner of all existence, however far those three dimensions may go.

I beleive there are semi-convincing reasons the universe can't have more than 11 dimensions. Some favor 7 instead of 11.

I recall see a note about a conference about 4 dimensions - mathematicians were trying to come to grapple with simple geomitry issues in four spacial dimensions and most of the comments tended towards there are more *types* of shapes than there are in three dimensions, even to making it hard to quantify categories of them (like we have spheres, cubes, pyramids, etc. in 3.)

So even 7 is mind-boggling!

 

[Bandit]

Do you think it's possible that space and time are without end too?

God created the universe. I have always assumed that God created everything else, since He created the universe. But I always wondered things like when did God create time and where did God create space? I don't think these things can be answered but it's not relevant to my question.

I wondered. With the concept of eternal God, I imagine God to be able to tranverse through time that He is not limited by time. With the concept of omnipresent God, I imagine that God to be able to anywhere and everywhere through space that He is not limited by space.

But does this mean that God are within time and space, but He was only not bound by them?

Perhaps this is one of the mysteries of God that we will not know before we face God because it's hard to imagine something without space and time. Even though it was mentioned that heavens have golden grass, the new Jerusalem, etc. was not without the concept of space. Eternal life and eternal death also have a concept of time, that time must play a part.

It's just in my imagination, if this is so, then space and time are as indestructible as God. I'm not talking about the universe = space. Just, space. A container for something to exist.

What do you people think?

here is what i think. you kind of make it sound like God is far away. if you face Him now & seek Him now in your spirit, you will find out He is in every atom & every breath you take.
in that, you wont have to face Him later & a lot of your questions become answered in length, depth, height & breadth.

A container for something to exist.

We are the container & space that God wants to exist in. But he wont do it unless we let Him.
Right?

time & space becomes irrelevant when that happens.

eternal life is a life without end. eternal death is becoming non existant.

just some thoughts for ya.

 

[tectrikz]

According to Genesis, heavens and earth were created before light. Darkness
exist regardless of presence of light. Light is nothing but special effect, needed for creation of another special effect - Life.
All special effects have expiration date, darkness does not.
Metaphoricaly, Light, which is God, that are Truth and True Love, does not require Sun or lightbulb to create that brightest light, in our thoughts, when we close our eyes, and feel It .
When thinking of darkness, we shouldn't forget that God is everything, darkness
included.

If God is everything, am I God? I don't believe that I am God but if he is everything then he is me. The way I see it God is an observer who watches over everything but he/she is not everything.

 

[Plaidback]

If God is everything, am I God? I don't believe that I am God but if he is everything then he is me. The way I see it God is an observer who watches over everything but he/she is not everything.

Of course you're God silly ! as part of everything, and God is everything.
In order to feel that, you need to understand, dimension in wich all the
" lucky ones ", that were given Holy spirit ,( by blood, just like Jesus did )
will be like One with " Him " , when every alive person realize that Time has stopped. ( which is vision that I have, about "end of the world", 1000 years that will actualy be just one day, according to all Prophecies )
Imagine, Spiritualy, All like One, but ther is still "flesh Issues", you still have desires, based on true love, nothing else, because you don't have anything else.
Because, Time does not exist. For Human emotions to exist, we need Time, if
we do not have Time ( when Eternal ), we can't have emotions, because
emotions need time to develop. True love is Infinite Energy,created when your flesh connected with truth, which produces your Spirit, that in Eternity
have Infinite Improbability Drive, placed in "Heart of Gold", which is your
brain.
God can not be Observer, He don't have Time to Observe.
He is so " Everything ", that He is One of Us, right now, just like you are.
Remember, Son of Man that is God @ the same "time", will live on Earth with
His People. One Species existing forever as One body, One blood.
That is why Jesus have transformerd Law into Love.
Your Life is that "only one God", you're supposed to Love, and that way you will Love that, my "only one God" , that is my Life.
Simple lesson "from God" about respect.

 

[Ciel]

Albert Einstein, once defined space as love.

Is it our mind or our mindlessness expanding, when considering the magnitude of space?

And the sense of wonder allowed to enter.

 

[Hazratio]

It might be worth your time to study the first few sections of Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. One of those sections is The Transcendental Aesthetic in which he argues that space and time are forms of sensible intuition. He concludes that we cannot know things in themselves (which leaves room for God/Freedom/immoratality/etc in a transcendent or noumenal realm). Instead, as rational creatures, we represent that which IS as a world of things on the horizon of space and time, according to the categories of the understanding. The latter are a priori concepts that give things an intelligible form for us on the horizon of space and time (space = the form of outer sense & time = the form of inner sense). As such, we do not and, indeed, cannot know things as they truely are, but only as they appear (including ourselves).




With regard to the way in which we appear to ourselves, as I was reading myself to sleep last night with A.C. Ewing's commentary on Kant, I read the following striking passage which addresses at least part of your question:

[Kant says] that what I observe of myself in introspection is only appearance. This according to him gives it sufficient reality for all practical purposes, but it remains a fact for him that if I could perceive my states as they really are I should not perceive them as in time at all or as being subject to change. As Kant points out in a letter to Herz in 1772 this does not mean that we can be said to be really always in the same state, for that would itself imply that our state really was in time. We must not attribute change to our real self, but neither must we attribtue to it unchanging duration. All we can say is that it has some unknown mode of being which cannot be equated with either [change or unchanging duration] and [which] does not involve time (Ewing 60).
​

From this, among other sources (e.g. Spinoza and The Upanishads) I have come to conclude that eternity must not be understood as infinite duration in time nor must spatial relations be attributed to it. The spatio-temporal world that we experience is a re-presentation of that which IS eternally. And I have modified my understanding of Christian theology and my interpretation of the bible accordingly.
If you are interested in exploring this line of thought further, see the following articles:

• Bringing Our World into Focus 13.06.2004
  Taking our cue from Plato, let us think of the temporal world as a "moving image of eternity." If such is the case, then the course of our existence is-- as Plato elsewhere describes it --a relatively superficial reflection of a deeper reality that we may be more or less aware of and attuned to.

• With Reference to the Good 12.08.2004
  The admonition to Follow your Bliss is an affirmation of individual freedom under God. Or put another way, it is the affirmation of individual freedom with reference to the Good.

• The Primary Ontological Distinction 14.11.2004
  If we understand the primary ontological distinction that can be drawn between several very basic conceptual oppositions, we can begin to resolve a number of theological and philosophical conundrums.

All the best,

Hazratio (aka Wayne)

 

[tectrikz]

Of course you're God silly ! as part of everything, and God is everything.
In order to feel that, you need to understand, dimension in wich all the
" lucky ones ", that were given Holy spirit ,( by blood, just like Jesus did )
will be like One with " Him " , when every alive person realize that Time has stopped. ( which is vision that I have, about "end of the world", 1000 years that will actualy be just one day, according to all Prophecies )
Imagine, Spiritualy, All like One, but ther is still "flesh Issues", you still have desires, based on true love, nothing else, because you don't have anything else.
Because, Time does not exist. For Human emotions to exist, we need Time, if
we do not have Time ( when Eternal ), we can't have emotions, because
emotions need time to develop. True love is Infinite Energy,created when your flesh connected with truth, which produces your Spirit, that in Eternity
have Infinite Improbability Drive, placed in "Heart of Gold", which is your
brain.
God can not be Observer, He don't have Time to Observe.
He is so " Everything ", that He is One of Us, right now, just like you are.
Remember, Son of Man that is God @ the same "time", will live on Earth with
His People. One Species existing forever as One body, One blood.
That is why Jesus have transformerd Law into Love.
Your Life is that "only one God", you're supposed to Love, and that way you will Love that, my "only one God" , that is my Life.
Simple lesson "from God" about respect.

If God is everything then God would control the forth dimension (time) and therefore would have all the time in the world to observe. Can't really argue with the love stuff, and don’t really want too. We will see when I die just how just God is, if he is the Christian God I’m screwed sense I don't believe in Jesus. I hope I’m not wrong (crosses fingers).