Jehovah Witness?

[17th Angel]

I have been studying the Bible with JW's for 4 - 5 months or so... I see them as my friends.... We get on well and I have recently been seeing alot of bad stories and publicity and rumours maybe.... If there are any JW's here could you clear up a few questions for me please?

1. I smoke, Will the JW's Ignore me? (Even though they have said it is OK)
2. If I was to become a JW, that would mean my wife would also have to be?
3. Your religion was banned from Russia for being a Cult... That true?
4. I couldn't asscoiate with people from Satan's world (non JW's) If I was a JW?
5. You believe in a stake.... But to begin with Joesph rutherfield had made three books with illiustrations and details of Christ dying upon a cross... so why now change that?
6. Secret links with the UN?

 

[E99]

Hello 17th Angel


Your quote:
I have been studying the Bible with JW's for 4 - 5 months or so... I see them as my friends.... We get on well and I have recently been seeing alot of bad stories and publicity and rumours maybe.... If there are any JW's here could you clear up a few questions for me please?


1. I smoke, Will the JW's Ignore me? (Even though they have said it is OK)
2. If I was to become a JW, that would mean my wife would also have to be?
3. Your religion was banned from Russia for being a Cult... That true?
4. I couldn't asscoiate with people from Satan's world (non JW's) If I was a JW?
5. You believe in a stake.... But to begin with Joesph rutherfield had made three books with illiustrations and details of Christ dying upon a cross... so why now change that?
6. Secret links with the UN?


As far as I know there are only two 'secret agents of the U.N.' ( Jehovahs Witnesses) on here.... Me and ' Mee.' Your bible study conductors could possibly clear up a few points, but as you have asked on here....

1. I smoke, Will the JW's Ignore me? (Even though they have said it is OK)


No, not unless you stub your cigs out on the back of their hands and blow smoke rings directly into their faces. To continue smoking is your prerogative, and no JW is going to ignore you whilst you take in the knowledge of the scriptures if you are not baptised and still smoke. I've studied with people with various traits. One bible study of mine had many scripturally conflicting ways, like a yoyo, in and out of the belief. Only after 20 years did he dedicate himself with baptism. But colleagues and I never ignored him because of his conduct.

Please don't take this as an offence..... learning about Jehovah Gods scriptural word at an early stage is like being fed as a baby.... Liquid foods at first, and solid foods later. Cross the bridges as you come to them.


Hebrews 5:12-14 " For, indeed, although you ought to be teachers in view of the time, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God; and you have become such as need milk, not solid food. 13 For everyone that partakes of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong.

In time, accurate knowledge of God brings in the whole hearted love of Jehovah God, and love conquerors all things.


2. If I was to become a JW, that would mean my wife would also have to be?

Not at all. Obviously there can be a conflict of interests, but this can also be found with anything in life, and not only religion. I know of many JW's who have a spouse that is not of the same belief, and they live happily together.

3. Your religion was banned from Russia for being a Cult... That true?
Partly true, if defining us as a cult could be substantially proven to be the case. 'A cult', as some governments and authorities choose to label us. Its a convenient label, for a reason.......

We've been banned and persecuted in Moscow, Georgia and a good number of countries and areas etc. Mainly because we are impartial and we will not get involved in wordly political affairs, and are conscientious objectors. We totally refuse to lift up arms against any other people or religions, even to the point of facing our own death.....highlighted in WW11 in Nazi Germany where we had a choice to fight for their regime against all factions, or be slammed into concentration camps. 99.9% chose the latter.

Link to the official watchtower site (if allowed here) regarding these matters.

http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm?content=russia.htm


4. I couldn't asscoiate with people from Satan's world (non JW's) If I was a JW?

Of course you can. We are all of Satans world, Satan offered the kingdoms of the world to Jesus if he would worship him. So who owns the world and who's in the world ? We are not perfect, or any better. I personally have friends outside of my religion. You can associate, but more association by far with those of the same beliefs is beneficial for obvious reasons.


5. You believe in a stake.... But to begin with Joesph rutherfield had made three books with illiustrations and details of Christ dying upon a cross... so why now change that?


One illustration of Jesus on a cross appeared on page 114 of the book "The Harp of God" (1921) written by J.F.Rutherford then president of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. It was only in 1936 in the book "Riches," again by J.F.Rutherford, that first made clear to Jehovah's Witnesses that Jesus was not executed on a cross but on a stake.
Similarly, there are a number of early historical religious pictures of people tied and nailed to a stake, but the over-powering religious idea of a cross superseded this idea.

We believe that the scriptural transliteration of the Greek word 'stauros' used in the scriptures taken from the verb form 'stauroo' ( to drive stakes) implies that it was a stake more so than meaning a cross, apart from other historical reasonings etc. Although it is debatable, its a matter that requires in-depth analysis.
Of course the ins and outs were not known in the earlier days by Rutherford and there were illustrations of Christ on a cross in the earlier printed material. Things are revealed and understood gradually.

Similarly not all was fully understood by the disciples of Jesus, yet this was generally first hand experience. They argued amongst themselves as to who would be the greater. Peter raised a sword against one who came to arrest Jesus, and they all abandoned him in the end. All human weaknesses, and a lack of unrevealed understanding at that point of time. But in time it became clearer.


As Paul puts it in 1 Corinthians 13:12
"For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face. At present I know partially, but then I shall know accurately even as I am accurately known "........


6. Secret links with the UN?

Lol !....Secret links with the U.N !...Like, the U.N. really need Jehovahs Witnesses, like fish need rollerskates.
The U.N..... by-passing MI5 and the Bush administration to go straight to sister Mabel from the little hamlet congregation, so for their benefit she can liason with Mugabe.
Yes... its as absurd as it all sounds.

Rumours and false accusations.

Nothing has changed............

Historical fact....Christians at the time of the Roman Empire:

"Because they refused to participate in pagan ceremonies the 1st century Christians were dubbed atheists. Through their abstention from much of the community life-the pagan festivals, the public amusements, they were derided as haters of the human race. . . . It was said that both sexes met together at night . . . and that promiscuous intercourse followed. . . . The fact that [the Memorial of Christ’s death] was celebrated only in the presence of believers fed the rumours that Christians regularly sacrificed an infant and consumed its blood and flesh." In addition, because the early Christians refused to practice emperor worship, and refuse military service they were accused of being enemies of the State."

Christian regards

 

[Quahom1]

Hello 17th Angel

As far as I know there are only two 'secret agents of the U.N.' ( Jehovahs Witnesses) on here.... Me and ' Mee.' Your bible study conductors could possibly clear up a few points, but as you have asked on here....

No Obi wan, there is another... his name is Tommy. Good man too.

1. I smoke, Will the JW's Ignore me? (Even though they have said it is OK)

No, not unless you stub your cigs out on the back of their hands and blow smoke rings directly into their faces. To continue smoking is your prerogative, and no JW is going to ignore you whilst you take in the knowledge of the scriptures if you are not baptised and still smoke. I've studied with people with various traits. One bible study of mine had many scripturally conflicting ways, like a yoyo, in and out of the belief. Only after 20 years did he dedicate himself with baptism. But colleagues and I never ignored him because of his conduct.

Please don't take this as an offence..... learning about Jehovah Gods scriptural word at an early stage is like being fed as a baby.... Liquid foods at first, and solid foods later. Cross the bridges as you come to them.

Milk before meat, crawl before walking, then running, trip-fall get up brush off and start again.

2. If I was to become a JW, that would mean my wife would also have to be?
Not at all. Obviously there can be a conflict of interests, but this can also be found with anything in life, and not only religion. I know of many JW's who have a spouse that is not of the same belief, and they live happily together.

One trouble spot could be the same we see here at CR...a difference in perspectives over the philosophies of in this case, "Christianity". The trouble is when the "I'm right, the other is wrong" harrange begins. The other is more subltle but more potentially damaging to the relationship, and that is the zeal and excitement the newly discovered faithful finds, and the heartfelt wish to share with the partner...who is quite content with their own faith, as it is, and has no desire to change horses in mid stream. This can potentially lead to hurt feelings and a sense of rejection (even though it may not be rejection). I've seen it at work in my own family, when one parent became a "Charistmatic" while the other was content to remain a "traditionalist". It all worked out to the Good of God (and the marriage), but it was touch and go for a time. I guess, the word is patience and caution.

3. Your religion was banned from Russia for being a Cult... That true?
Partly true, if defining us as a cult could be substantially proven to be the case. 'A cult', as some governments and authorities choose to label us. Its a convenient label, for a reason.......

We've been banned and persecuted in Moscow, Georgia and a good number of countries and areas etc. Mainly because we are impartial and we will not get involved in wordly political affairs, and are conscientious objectors. We totally refuse to lift up arms against any other people or religions, even to the point of facing our own death.....highlighted in WW11 in Nazi Germany where we had a choice to fight for their regime against all factions, or be slammed into concentration camps. 99.9% chose the latter.

Link to the official watchtower site (if allowed here) regarding these matters.

http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm?content=russia.htm

I don't know about the Russia incident, however The Jehovah's Witnesses are losing the "Cult" status in the states, rather steadily. It is more with a "minority group" presenting issues in rather non-traditional light, rather assertively, that initially causes the group to receive the title "Cult". As far as conscientious objection...well the Menonites and Amish are Conscientious Objectors as well, yet they are not considered a cult, nor are they considered "quaint" any longer. Mormons tend to refrain from battle (by taking up arms against another), but they excel as medics and hospital corpsman, because they have no issue with blood. They just love to try to heal people.

4. I couldn't asscoiate with people from Satan's world (non JW's) If I was a JW?
Of course you can. We are all of Satans world, Satan offered the kingdoms of the world to Jesus if he would worship him. So who owns the world and who's in the world ? We are not perfect, or any better. I personally have friends outside of my religion. You can associate, but more association by far with those of the same beliefs is beneficial for obvious reasons.

A natural inclination is to ally one's self with others of similar thought and behavior as self. As pointed out above, things like smoking or drinking, could be construed as stumbling stones especially if one is constantly innundated with that kind of behavior from outside the "fold". One obvious pitfall to be avoided if possible is the beginning to think of others as "outsiders". As soon as another is judged "not privy to the truth", our opinion of them begins to change...it can not be helped. It is possible but it is a struggle none the less.

5. You believe in a stake.... But to begin with Joesph rutherfield had made three books with illiustrations and details of Christ dying upon a cross... so why now change that?

One illustration of Jesus on a cross appeared on page 114 of the book "The Harp of God" (1921) written by J.F.Rutherford then president of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. It was only in 1936 in the book "Riches," again by J.F.Rutherford, that first made clear to Jehovah's Witnesses that Jesus was not executed on a cross but on a stake.
Similarly, there are a number of early historical religious pictures of people tied and nailed to a stake, but the over-powering religious idea of a cross superseded this idea.

We believe that the scriptural transliteration of the Greek word 'stauros' used in the scriptures taken from the verb form 'stauroo' ( to drive stakes) implies that it was a stake more so than meaning a cross, apart from other historical reasonings etc. Although it is debatable, its a matter that requires in-depth analysis.
Of course the ins and outs were not known in the earlier days by Rutherford and there were illustrations of Christ on a cross in the earlier printed material. Things are revealed and understood gradually.

Similarly not all was fully understood by the disciples of Jesus, yet this was generally first hand experience. They argued amongst themselves as to who would be the greater. Peter raised a sword against one who came to arrest Jesus, and they all abandoned him in the end. All human weaknesses, and a lack of unrevealed understanding at that point of time. But in time it became clearer.

As Paul puts it in 1 Corinthians 13:12
"For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face. At present I know partially, but then I shall know accurately even as I am accurately known "........

This is out of my element.

6. Secret links with the UN?
Lol !....Secret links with the U.N !...Like, the U.N. really need Jehovahs Witnesses, like fish need rollerskates.
The U.N..... by-passing MI5 and the Bush administration to go straight to sister Mabel from the little hamlet congregation, so for their benefit she can liason with Mugabe.
Yes... its as absurd as it all sounds.

Rumours and false accusations.

Considering the absolute disdain JWs have for any human concept of a One World Government...I'd have to concur.

Nothing has changed............

Historical fact....Christians at the time of the Roman Empire:

"Because they refused to participate in pagan ceremonies the 1st century Christians were dubbed atheists. Through their abstention from much of the community life-the pagan festivals, the public amusements, they were derided as haters of the human race. . . . It was said that both sexes met together at night . . . and that promiscuous intercourse followed. . . . The fact that [the Memorial of Christ’s death] was celebrated only in the presence of believers fed the rumours that Christians regularly sacrificed an infant and consumed its blood and flesh." In addition, because the early Christians refused to practice emperor worship, and refuse military service they were accused of being enemies of the State."

Not quite accurate, nor historical, however we can discuss at length on the Christian forum if you wish.

17, Bless you and your endeavor to find the truth, however it reveals itself to you. Take a slow bell through uncharted (for you) waters and delight in the discoveries you make on your journey.

E99, thank you for the insight and education. I keep learning more and more.

v/r

Quahom

 

[Bandit]

hey 17th Angel. i think it is good to get an understanding of these different institutions. i think if you stick with Jesus & the bible you cant go wrong. eventually that is what it comes down to. just you, Jesus & the bible.

2 pennies

 

[17th Angel]

E99: Thank you very much for your time and answers/views/opinons... Very helpful... Also in reference to the Russian Ban, I have looked deep into that and well, you cannot be a Jew, Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, and a few others... but that is mainly because of their corrupt goverments (no offense meant if there are Russians reading this.....)

Quahom: .. Long time no see old buddy, Thank you also for showing your side and confirming answers and such!

Bandit: Hey pal! Yes I believe you are true also... eliminate the old Dogma eh?


(edits)

Oh! I also meant to put, that I do believe that alot of what I see hear and witness from the JW's Is right, there is just something inside me that tells me something... Dunno hard to explain. Most people say that it is bad because they have hardly/no celebrations.... But what I can see from the 'good book' is that Life is not meant to be pleasing one's self.... but pleasing our Creator... *shrugs* I dunno... The stake question...

That wasn't truly an issue with me I just wanted to see how a JW would explain it... I see it as not important, as the Bible clearly shows there is no trinity system in so many scriptures books and verses... So I just wanted to see a JW's thoughts...