liberal VS. literal Muslim

Bandit

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i would like to hear & examine some of the liberal & literal views in Islam.

for example, can you remove 80% of the Quran & still be Muslim?
can you believe that Jesus was crucified, buried & raised from the dead & that he is the Son of God and be a liberal Muslim?

lets say, i only want to pray once a week instead of 5 times a day would that be a good example of Islam? as a liberal muslim, i dont want to make body movements or bow my head to the ground but prefer standing with my arms lifted.

is it possible to remove the core of the muslim faith & say Mohammed was not a literal prophet, but just a regular man not really sent from Allah & still be muslim?

please note, these are serious questions & i have other liberal views i would like to share, if i convert to Islam. i would also like to hear some of the other literal & liberal views in the Muslim religion.

i realize not everyone believes the same & that my views would be different from others.

thank you very, very much for the replies.
 
for example, can you remove 80% of the Quran & still be Muslim?
can you believe that Jesus was crucified, buried & raised from the dead & that he is the Son of God and be a liberal Muslim?

I don't believe in this Liberal Stuff to me their is only Muslims and Kafirs most people if not all of the so called Liberals are infact Kafirs

No you must believe 100% of the Quran if you don't your Kafir.

And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah,’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (al-Nisa’ 4:157)

lets say, i only want to pray once a week instead of 5 times a day would that be a good example of Islam? as a liberal muslim, i dont want to make body movements or bow my head to the ground but prefer standing with my arms lifted.

Nothing stands between a person and Kufr except his giving up prayer” (narrated by Muslim).

Prophet (pbuh) The difference between us and them is salaah. Whoever neglects it is a kaafir.” (Reported by Imaam Ahmad and the authors of Sunan with a saheeh isnaad); and: “(Nothing stands) between a man and kufr and shirk, except prayer: (whoever neglects it becomes a kaafir and a mushrik).” (Reported by Imaam Muslim in his Saheeh, with other similar ahaadeeth).

Prophet (pbuh)He said: ‘The first thing that people will be asked about on the Day of Resurrection will be their prayers. Our Lord will say to His angels (although He knows best): “Look at My slave’s prayers: are they complete or is something lacking?” If they are complete, they will be recorded as such, but if something is lacking, He will say: “Look and see if My slave has any voluntary prayers to his credit.” If this proves to be the case, He will say: “Make up his (missing) obligatory prayers with his voluntary prayers.” Then the rest of his deeds will be dealt with in the same manner.’” (Saheeh al-Jaami’, 2571)

is it possible to remove the core of the muslim faith & say Mohammed was not a literal prophet, but just a regular man not really sent from Allah & still be muslim?

No

Hope this helps.
 
Greeting Yaqinud,

I appreciate your explanations. But I do have a few of questions if I may...

When does a man determine that another is Kafir, as opposed to earnestly seeking God, but has a mistaken idea of faith? How is it decided? Does not Allah alone have the authority to decide who rejects outright and who is misguided?

If a man is determined to be Mushrik, is he automatically identified as Kafir as well, or could he be simply mistaken?

How can 'Eesa be a prophet of respect if He is also considered Mushrik? That is to say that by His very message and revelation of Himself, does He not commit Shirk?

Or have I missed something significant that would put it all together?

I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

v/r

Q
 
Bandit said:
for example, can you remove 80% of the Quran & still be Muslim?
no. not even 0.000000000000000.....1%. This contradicts the Quran and/or sunnah itself depending on the reason given for rejection.
can you believe that Jesus was crucified, buried & raised from the dead & that he is the Son of God and be a liberal Muslim?
nope. Contradicts the Quran and Sunnah.
lets say, i only want to pray once a week instead of 5 times a day would that be a good example of Islam? as a liberal muslim, i dont want to make body movements or bow my head to the ground but prefer standing with my arms lifted.
Depends on what u mean here. Are you not praying cause you are denying that the 5 daily prayers are compulsory or you are not praying simply because you are lazy?
In general, in the case of the first one, it is an act of Kufr (disbeleif) because it is an openly known fact about Islam among the muslims and there is no real excuse. In the case of the latter, well.. YaqinudDin has pretty much said it. It is the first thing you will questioned about by your Lord. In Islam, worship is done according to how Allaah and His Prophet(pbuh) taught us. In various places in Quran, it is clearly stated that the Prophet(pbuh) is an example for us to follow. Also, that he who has obeyed the Prophet(pbuh) has indeed obeyed Allaah. Also, specfically regarding prayer, the Prophet(pbuh) clearly said: "Pray as you have seen me pray." Therefore, using the word 'liberal' and trying to change things doesnt work. its not allowed. there is no liberal or literal muslim. Islam itself means to submit your will to the Will of Allaah. So, no trying to change things. Do as your Lord has ordered.
is it possible to remove the core of the muslim faith & say Mohammed was not a literal prophet, but just a regular man not really sent from Allah & still be muslim?
Impossible. That negates the very testimony that makes one a muslim.
 
thank you thipps & thank you Yaqinud Din.

i appreciate you & respect your religion & agree that it would not be possible. it appears a liberal view of this sort which attempts to remove, change or alter the core & foundation of the muslim faith would indeed be considered Kafir or better put, non-Muslim.

it is a good thing to have a foundation in which to build from.

Peace to you both & thank you for the replies.:)
 
I think it's worth pointing out that there's a wealth of difference between the development of Islam and Christianity - not least the fact that the Reformation opened up Christianity, it's beliefs, doctrines, and scriptures, to personal and group interpretation.

Certainly I don't believe that Islam has experienced this anywhere near the same degree. :)
 
I said:
I think it's worth pointing out that there's a wealth of difference between the development of Islam and Christianity - not least the fact that the Reformation opened up Christianity, it's beliefs, doctrines, and scriptures, to personal and group interpretation.

Certainly I don't believe that Islam has experienced this anywhere near the same degree. :)

thanks Brian.
are you saying it would be ok for me to interpret the parts of the Quran that i like, while discarding the parts that dont work for me- here (to meet & maintain) while introducing my current liberal status as a converting muslim?

can i introduce reform to Islam here at CR?

i wonder what do other Muslims feel about that?

from what i have seen, the reformation of Christianity still holds to core & foundation of the death, burial & resurrection of Jesus.
 
The Reformation in Christianity opened up the entire faith in Europe to re-evaluation, and like I said I don;t believe there's a comparable situation in Islam.

Anyway, I'm moving from the topic - the Muslims have answered you. :)
 
Hi Bandit,

In the name of God most gracious most merciful.

It is a good question that you ask and I am sure it came after a long thought about Islam.

To answer this question, lets me define what constitute a person to be a Muslim. These are mandatory for all Muslims to believe 100% and perform.

Pillar of Islam - what Muslims should perform (actions), without these actions they are just Muslims by mouth.
Pillar of Iman - what Muslims should believe in.
Ihsan - this is how you should believe when performing all the above actions.

1. Pillars of Islam - there are 5 tenets of Islam they are;
a) Saying the shahada. i.e 'There is not Gods but Allah and Muhammad, peace be upon him, is his Messenger.
b) Performing the 5 daily prayers
c) Fasting in the month of Ramadhan.
d) Paying of zakat from your wealth.
e) Performing Hajj when you have the means.

2. Pillar of Iman, believe in..
for further reading please visit: http://www.anwary-islam.com/life/pillars_iman.htm
a) existence of GOD (Allah)
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]b) all the Angels who are the spiritual beings of God,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]c) the divine revelations[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]d) in the prophets and messengers[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]e) in the Hereafter: The Day of Resurrection and Judgement.[/FONT]
f) in the divine will

3. Ihsan
It is to perform the above actions as though you can see GOD (Allah). However, when you can't see Him, believe that indeed He can see you. This is 100% believe that Allah is watching and knowing what you are doing in your life and He know what is hidden or clear in your heart and mind.

Now that I have laid the basic foundation of Islam, you can then try to relate to what you have asked. For each question, try to refer to all the above points and see if it fits. If it doesn't then it is absolutely rejected.

May Allah show you the right path. Hope this helps.
 
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