Did Jesus die?


I am familiar, somewhat, with the account you've shared. I've come across websites that detail the possibilities of Jesus surviving the crucifixion, and I also have scans of a book called `Adept of Galilee' that I'm reading ... which may address this point.

There is a very good essay by Swami Abhedenanda, a Hindu, entitled `Was Christ a Yogi,' which is reprinted in the 1920s book `Adept of Galilee.' The essay is online, here, and is I recommend taking a look.

Also, Swami Abhedenanda wrote an essay entitled, `Jesus versus Churchianity,' and I am very much in sympathy with the points he makes, overall ... as highlighted in his opening paragraph:
A Hindu distinguishes the religion of the churches from the religion of Jesus Christ. Speaking from the Hindu standpoint, the religion that the churches uphold and preach today, that has been built around the personality of Jesus the Christ, and which is popularly known as Christianity, should be called ‘Churchianity’, in contradistinction to that pure religion of the heart that was taught by Jesus the Christ and practised by his disciples. The religion of Christ or true Christianity had no dogma, no creed, no system, and no theology. It was a religion of the heart, a religion without any ceremonial, without ritual, without priest-craft. It was not based upon any book, but upon the feelings of the heart, upon direct communion of the individual soul with the heavenly Father. On the contrary, the religion of the church is based upon a book, believes in dogmas, professes a creed, has an organized system for preaching it, is backed up by theologies, performs rituals, practises ceremonials, and obeys the commands of a host of priests.

Another excellent point, which is one of my own chief objections to the exclusivity we often see occuring in churchianity, is stated later in the essay:
Although many of the Hindus believe in the doctrine of the incarnation of God in a human form, still they strongly object to the dogmatic method by which the churches preach it among the heathens. Their first objection is that if God could incarnate in one place for a certain purpose, why should He not incarnate whenever and wherever such an incarnation was needed? The church dogmas make the love of God for humanity limited by time, place and nationality. The love of God for humanity must be unlimited by such narrow considerations. God loves all humanity; His love shines equally upon all living creatures like the light of the sun. The Hindu conception of the incarnation of God is beautifully expressed in the Bhagavad Gita. In that Lord Krishna says: "Wherever irreligion prevails and true religion declines, I manifest Myself in a human form to establish righteousness and to destroy evil"

But worst of all, it is this notion of tying one man's death to a supposed vicarious atonement and trouble-free, effortless salvation for the masses ... which makes of personal responsibility a mockery ... that stains the entire Teaching, Purpose and Mission of Christ Jesus with falsity and superstition. It carries us backward, rather than moves us forward - let alone opening a door to the future.

Indeed, if God has killed his only son, so that we might be spiritually redeemed, then how is THIS any different than the blood sacrifice of ANIMALS that so tainted the earlier religions, which Christ Himself most certainly came to REFORM?

All manner of objection will be raised, and all sorts of efforts made to distort or reinterpret this very basic - and obvious - problem. Yet so long as there is clinging to vicarious atonement, no real answer will be forthcoming. And it is an offense, not only to good common sense and our human reason, but also to the Spirit and the innate Dignity of all people to insist that this susperstitious nonsense be regarded somehow "sacred."

Shall we, like some, cross ourselves immediatley upon swearing? Or perhaps if we kill a small rodent, it will be propitiation enough? A fatted cow? A passover lamb?

No, I think the symbolism of the "Lamb slain from the Foundation of the World" is already lost. So long as Christ Jesus remains - in the eyes of churchianity - God's Sacrifice ... we can expect little from the churches, certainly by way of further penetration into the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but probably also in terms of comparative religion.

It remains for the individual Members, of Christ's Church (both esoteric and exoteric), to break away from the pack, and - like the Goat of Capricorn (the symbol of the Initiate, now thoroughly confused, in most Christians' eyes, with PAN, or "the devil") - assert their Divine Individuality. This must ever precede the coming together in a conscious, Spiritual Group, which is the opposite, even the antithesis, of the animal, herd instinct.

The contemplation of the Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi, imho, will yield us more spiritual profit - in understanding the meaning, necessity and purpose for the death of Christ Jesus - than a whole book of Sundays, spent in the pews, nodding and poking each other to keep from falling asleep. It's that last line, especially, where I think St. Francis really reminds us - who it is (and what it is), that must die.

As St. Paul said, "I die daily." And yes, this man was a High Initiate. He now serves the Christ with Master Jesus, side by side, and has His own Ashram, as Master H. (Ray 5, Science).


My view is that the knowledge and wisdom of Jesus was innate and not acquired from anyone else... just as the Buddha didn't acquire His knowledge from anyone else nor did He go to an esoteric school to become enlightened.

The Baha'i view is that the body of Jesus was crucified and that He died... His Cause however was resurrected... that is those who followed Him took heart and realized that His teachings and Spirit continued to influence the souls of men in a spiritual sense.

The stories about Kashmir I think are legends just as the ones about Glaustonbury.

- Art
arthra said:
My view is that the knowledge and wisdom of Jesus was innate and not acquired from anyone else... just as the Buddha didn't acquire His knowledge from anyone else nor did He go to an esoteric school to become enlightened.

The Baha'i view is that the body of Jesus was crucified and that He died... His Cause however was resurrected... that is those who followed Him took heart and realized that His teachings and Spirit continued to influence the souls of men in a spiritual sense.

The stories about Kashmir I think are legends just as the ones about Glaustonbury.

- Art

I think this is something worth contemplating. I agree - the knowledge and Wisdom of Christed Jesus were not something that was simply imparted ... by a school, by a sect, or even by some other enlightened Teacher.

This is what esotericism is all about. Not the notion that a "secret body of teachings" exists apart from Humanity, or somehow preserved somewhere, which we simply access - either through a Brotherhood, or by performing some kind of special ceremony.

Rather, the Wisdom, the knowledge, and the Truth - including the potential for all Love, and for perfect Compassion - is something that dwells within us. This is the exact teaching of esoteric Buddhism (or Vajrayana). Ours is the calling, and the responsiblity, as well as the destiny, to awaken to this innate potential .... and to perfect the "God within."

I find that New Age Teachings attempt to simplify this idea, but it is very difficult for many people who have become accustomed to the prevalent, exoteric teachings of modern times ... to grasp this notion of the "God within." The very concept that `G-d' could have somehow "fallen asleep," even rendered in poetic or allegorical terms, is strange to them. And yet, this is exactly what esoteric ideas communicate.

Not God Transcendent, the Absolute, or Godhead, but rather - a fragment of the totality of God (which, nonetheless, reproduces the whole - much as a hologram) ... has descended into incarnation, into generation. And it is this fragment to which we are awakening, a fragment relative to the totality of Godhead, yet a vast and complete Whole, unto itself, when considered relative to our limited, mortal existence.

Christ, the Buddha, and others, have demonstrated what it means to be AWAKE to this greater reality, or to be ANNOINTED with the Living, Fire of Life Itself. At best, we can glimpse their completion in poetic terms, or through some sort of allegory. We are like preschool children, reaching to comprehend the mysteries of geometry. Our knowledge may not allow us to draw and measure the various angles with precision, but we can and do appreciate the beauty of the geometrical forms we are shown ... and we can at least discern that it is truly a sacred science.

An Esoteric School, such as the ones Jesus of Nazareth visited, and which are in the process of forming on the planet today, is not something which exists, or begins primarily on the physical plane and taps into a hidden, esoteric or deeper Wisdom. It is precisely the opposite.

The true Esoteric School is the Ashram of the Master, existing as a magnetic envelope, or sphere of influence, but with a very definite reality ... in the inner worlds. It is objective, yet it does not originate in the world of the sense, or emotions, or even of lower mind. This is one of the many aspects of Godhead, and it is just one of the many ways in which we come to understand the Mysteries of God, of ourselves, and of the Universe. Above all, an esoteric school is about SERVICE. The entire Purpose for its existence (on ANY plane), is to train disciples, and to awaken the Spirit within, so that we return to our Source, our Home, the Father's House ... and to do so IN COMPANY, not alone.

Any true esoteric school that is encountered on the physical plane, today just as 2100, or even 21000 years ago, is simply the outward reflection, or projection into time and space, of a timeless truth ... or of this Inward, Sacred Center ... where as you say, the wisdom and knowledge of God (or of Heaven), is known and kept.

So the idea that Jesus traveled to several such schools, and took Initiations in the various Sacred Temples of his day, is not to suggest that these schools imparted something to him anew ... or that this is how they operate. Rather, they would have assisted him in the remembering (literally), or the reawakening, of what he had already learned in previous lives.

Still, the point you make is a vital one. Esoteric Schools do not hold, or guard the Wisdom and knowledge of God as some kind of objectified, or tangible manifestation. Not even the holiest book on Earth, could EVER begin to capture the Truth that is, and is within, the human Heart. Nor can the Prophet speak this Truth, as it CANNOT be imparted, from one person to another. At best, techniques, and outward teachings, may be shared. The awakening to the inner reality is a personal, individual process ... and that Reality itself, cannot be communicated.

The Tao that can be named ... is not the Eternal Tao.


Hummm Interesting post Taijasa... there is somthing called the "school" referred to by Abdul-Baha that also might relate to what you expressed and goes something like this:

In one of His Tablets ‘Abdu’l-Bahá explains that some were misled by this statement and thought that the school referred to was a physical school for the training of unlettered children, whereas it referred to a spiritual school sanctified from the limits of the contingent world. Bahá’u’lláh in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas also refers to this Epistle of the Báb in the following words:
O Thou Supreme Pen! Move over the Tablet by the leave of Thy Lord, the Creator of the heavens. Call Thou then to mind the day when the Fountainhead of divine unity sought to attend the school which is sanctified of all save God, that perchance the righteous might become acquainted, to the extent of a needle’s eye, with that which is concealed behind the veil of the inner mysteries of Thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Knowing.

Say, We, in truth, entered the school of inner meaning and exposition at a time when the minds of all that dwell on earth were wrapt in heedlessness. We beheld what the Merciful Lord had revealed, accepted the gift He [the Báb] had offered Me of the verses of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting, and hearkened to that to which He had attested in the Tablet. We, verily, are the Witness. We responded to His call at Our Own behest, and We are, in truth, the Ordainer.

O people of the Bayán! We entered the School of God when ye were slumbering on your couches, and perused the Tablet when ye were fast asleep. By the righteousness of God, the True One, We had read it before it was revealed, and ye were utterly unaware. Indeed Our knowledge had encompassed the Book when ye were yet unborn.

These utterances are revealed according to your measure, not to God’s, and unto this beareth witness that which is enshrined in the knowledge of God, did ye but know. Unto this testifieth He Who is the Mouthpiece of God, could ye but understand. By the righteousness of God! Were We to lift the veil ye would swoon away. Take heed lest ye dispute with Him and His Cause. He hath indeed appeared in such wise as to encompass all things, whether of the past or of the future. Were We to speak forth at this time in the language of the dwellers of the Kingdom, We would say that God raised up this School ere the earth and the heavens were brought into being, and We entered it before the letters ‘B’ and ‘E’ were joined and knit together.



- Art