Dondi said:
Let me ask you something of curiousity, though. what would you call those beings that were cast into the swine of pigs from the possessed man in Mark 5. Were they astral being? If so, this opens up the question of animal possession in the nefesh.
I think, if we focus too heavily on this aspect, we're looking at it in the wrong dynamic.
Remember, the Astral Light etc, is a human construct, and the way it is presented is largely cosmological. Christianity bypasses all constructs and focusses on 'the one thing necessary', so whilst we are willing to speculate on the interpretation of this text, and appraoched from a Rosicrucian, or theosophical, or anthroposophical, angle, the answer will differ, I would rather answer from a Christian perspective.
Swine get two mentions in the Gospels - there first here, and later in the Parable of the Prodigal Son. In that story man squanders his birthright, becomes the hireling of strangers and is brought so low he is put to work tending the pigs, even to contemplating eating food from the trough, before he contemplates an apologetic return to his father.
The pig is Judaism is unclean - man can hardly sink lower than the prodigal son.
The spirits that possess the man are one, but their name is legion - so here we are talking of a multitude of spirits gathered under one principle.
I think the ejection of the spirits into a herd of pigs is metaphorical - all energy returns to the source of its arising, and the pigs signify 'uncleanliness' in this instance.
The pigs hurl themselves from a cliff into the waters - now a pig does not possess the wherewithall to make an ethical decision like Fr. ?(the name escapes me) in 'The Exorcist' - to take the demon into himself, and then kill himself (this would not kill the demon anyway). Nor, it seems to me, having just bargained for a home, would the legion spirits then destroy it ...
... but suppose the waters stand for the primordial waters, the 'deep' of Genesis, the primodial soup at the start of creation, then we have the spirits sent back into, effectively, nothingness, from which they arose ... it is axiomatic of Christianity that evil has no ultimate essence - evil is marked by the absence of everything good and natural - it is a condition of privation - that there are stages, deformed essences and corrupt presences, on the way to this ultimate 'anti-state' of being, I accept, but not an ultimate...
(Remember the devil is not the opposite of God - the devil is a fallen archangel and is countered by another archangel, St Michael)
So where does this leave us with regard to legion?
The Desert Fathers spoke of 'logismoi' - certain modes of thought that have to be purified if man is going to rise in the contemplative life. Logismoi are far more dangerous than demons because they are invisible, intangible, and apparently innocent ... but anyone who practices meditation will know the temptations come not from snarling beasts from the pit, but from those inconsequential 'trains of thought', those everyday distractions, when we suddenly realised the mind has wandered from its practice of concentration.
This is the subtlety of the adversary.
+++
"Make straight the ways of the Lord"
In Patristic Tradition (as in many others) purification is of the heart, not of the mind.
Repentance is the sign of this process, as proclaimed by St. John the Baptist, Christ Himself and, of course, by all of His Apostles, because repentance is the indispensable prerequisite for one to experience the Kingdom of God.
Purification of the heart - the inner world - is the first stage of the spiritual life, through which we must pass in order to attain to salvation.
Purification of the heart is the cure of the soul's faculty, so as to function in accordance with nature and above nature - not contrary to nature. The soul has three activities: the intelligent, the appetitive and the incentive. All three faculties, when functioning normally, are directed towards God. The intellect seeks God; the desire longs for God, and the will must do everything to achieve this communion and union with God.
(St Maximus refers to the three movements of the soul, a straight line, a circle, and a spiral.)
Purification is deliverance from pleasure and pain, in other words a person's liberation from the oppression exerted by pleasure and pain. When man is cleansed, he is freed from their domination. It is the spiritual pleasures which primarily are cultivated within him; and he does not become distressed or afflicted when diverse people or problems and adversities in life cause him pain.
Purification is the cleansing of the heart from the various thoughts/logismoi existing therein. They are called logismoi because they must dwell in the reason and not within the heart. What does this mean? When a "logismos" comes and a person is not sufficiently attentive, it then becomes a desire which wants to be fulfilled, i.e. realised. This means that the logismos proceeds from the intelligent faculty of the soul to the passible faculty, that is the faculties of desire and will. Being realised and developing into a passion the logismos enters, in fact, into the heart and remains all powerful there.
The above and the following is taken from:
http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b15.en.orthodox_spirituality.02.htm
The whole is well worth reading.
The Fathers say that the heart can be cleansed of logismoi through the ascetic method of the Church. And this ascetic method is inspired by divine grace.
A simple thought may enter the reason but not find its way within the heart. When all logismoi are dismissed and the heart is cleansed, only one word-prayer prevails. The Prayer of the Heart, and this is the meaning of hesychia in Orthodoxy.
The most powerful and dangerous 'demons' or logismoi are the Seven Deadly Sins - although different saints have drawn up different lists at different times.
Search logismoi in google or wherever ...
Thomas
Let me ask you something of curiousity, though. what would you call those beings that were cast into the swine of pigs from the possessed man in Mark 5. Were they astral being? If so, this opens up the question of animal possession in the nefesh.
I think, if we focus too heavily on this aspect, we're looking at it in the wrong dynamic.
Remember, the Astral Light etc, is a human construct, and the way it is presented is largely cosmological. Christianity bypasses all constructs and focusses on 'the one thing necessary', so whilst we are willing to speculate on the interpretation of this text, and appraoched from a Rosicrucian, or theosophical, or anthroposophical, angle, the answer will differ, I would rather answer from a Christian perspective.
Swine get two mentions in the Gospels - there first here, and later in the Parable of the Prodigal Son. In that story man squanders his birthright, becomes the hireling of strangers and is brought so low he is put to work tending the pigs, even to contemplating eating food from the trough, before he contemplates an apologetic return to his father.
The pig is Judaism is unclean - man can hardly sink lower than the prodigal son.
The spirits that possess the man are one, but their name is legion - so here we are talking of a multitude of spirits gathered under one principle.
I think the ejection of the spirits into a herd of pigs is metaphorical - all energy returns to the source of its arising, and the pigs signify 'uncleanliness' in this instance.
The pigs hurl themselves from a cliff into the waters - now a pig does not possess the wherewithall to make an ethical decision like Fr. ?(the name escapes me) in 'The Exorcist' - to take the demon into himself, and then kill himself (this would not kill the demon anyway). Nor, it seems to me, having just bargained for a home, would the legion spirits then destroy it ...
... but suppose the waters stand for the primordial waters, the 'deep' of Genesis, the primodial soup at the start of creation, then we have the spirits sent back into, effectively, nothingness, from which they arose ... it is axiomatic of Christianity that evil has no ultimate essence - evil is marked by the absence of everything good and natural - it is a condition of privation - that there are stages, deformed essences and corrupt presences, on the way to this ultimate 'anti-state' of being, I accept, but not an ultimate...
(Remember the devil is not the opposite of God - the devil is a fallen archangel and is countered by another archangel, St Michael)
So where does this leave us with regard to legion?
The Desert Fathers spoke of 'logismoi' - certain modes of thought that have to be purified if man is going to rise in the contemplative life. Logismoi are far more dangerous than demons because they are invisible, intangible, and apparently innocent ... but anyone who practices meditation will know the temptations come not from snarling beasts from the pit, but from those inconsequential 'trains of thought', those everyday distractions, when we suddenly realised the mind has wandered from its practice of concentration.
This is the subtlety of the adversary.
+++
"Make straight the ways of the Lord"
In Patristic Tradition (as in many others) purification is of the heart, not of the mind.
Repentance is the sign of this process, as proclaimed by St. John the Baptist, Christ Himself and, of course, by all of His Apostles, because repentance is the indispensable prerequisite for one to experience the Kingdom of God.
Purification of the heart - the inner world - is the first stage of the spiritual life, through which we must pass in order to attain to salvation.
Purification of the heart is the cure of the soul's faculty, so as to function in accordance with nature and above nature - not contrary to nature. The soul has three activities: the intelligent, the appetitive and the incentive. All three faculties, when functioning normally, are directed towards God. The intellect seeks God; the desire longs for God, and the will must do everything to achieve this communion and union with God.
(St Maximus refers to the three movements of the soul, a straight line, a circle, and a spiral.)
Purification is deliverance from pleasure and pain, in other words a person's liberation from the oppression exerted by pleasure and pain. When man is cleansed, he is freed from their domination. It is the spiritual pleasures which primarily are cultivated within him; and he does not become distressed or afflicted when diverse people or problems and adversities in life cause him pain.
Purification is the cleansing of the heart from the various thoughts/logismoi existing therein. They are called logismoi because they must dwell in the reason and not within the heart. What does this mean? When a "logismos" comes and a person is not sufficiently attentive, it then becomes a desire which wants to be fulfilled, i.e. realised. This means that the logismos proceeds from the intelligent faculty of the soul to the passible faculty, that is the faculties of desire and will. Being realised and developing into a passion the logismos enters, in fact, into the heart and remains all powerful there.
The above and the following is taken from:
http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b15.en.orthodox_spirituality.02.htm
The whole is well worth reading.
The Fathers say that the heart can be cleansed of logismoi through the ascetic method of the Church. And this ascetic method is inspired by divine grace.
A simple thought may enter the reason but not find its way within the heart. When all logismoi are dismissed and the heart is cleansed, only one word-prayer prevails. The Prayer of the Heart, and this is the meaning of hesychia in Orthodoxy.
The most powerful and dangerous 'demons' or logismoi are the Seven Deadly Sins - although different saints have drawn up different lists at different times.
Search logismoi in google or wherever ...
Thomas