An idea!

Postmaster

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,312
Reaction score
3
Points
0
There are people that talk of the oneness of religion. That fundamentally it comes from one devine source. But what if, just as the conflict we have on a earth there is conflict in the devine and mystical world and there is a struggle to gain our influence?
 
It seems that was what many of the old religions were based on...my god is better than your god.

And in my thinking it is what is existing in our subconscious that creates what is in our conscious level of understanding...so turmoil obviously exists behind the scenes and that is what we see.

However should we choose to change what we think and what we percieve, 'reality' will adjust accordingly.
 
I hate to believe that religion is a consequence of the subconsciou, takes out the romance of religion. I would like to believe that any idea created by man has some influence from an other source. If we were to break away from this idea then self benefit manifests.
 
The subconscoius mind contains the automatic instructions for us to breathe, pump blood etc...it also contains the automatic 'knee jerk' reactions we have imbedded in it...and it also absorbs information from source, from the divine.

Our conscious mind makes decisions as we contemplate that which comes out of our subconscious during moments of relaxation. During heated debates or arguments or emergency situations (fight or flight) as Wayne Dyer says, when you squeeze and orange you get orange juice.

So the question is what are adding to our subconscious....are we allowing what comes from the divine to stay in there...the thoughts we focus on, are they loving, caring, compassionate...our thoughts are prayers...and each and everyone of them is sinking in creating our version of orange juice...that will pop out when we are squeezed.

To me that does not diminish, but empower...
 
Oh rats! I am hesitant to post this now ... it is perhaps, overthunk? :p

I like your quote of Wayne Dyer, Wil. It reminds me of the emphasis of one of my Teachers on Reversing the Flow. In very simple terms, I think he was saying this is pretty much what the path is about. It's Step One, and I'm still there! :eek:

Another teacher said this, "We see the world through the world we have seen." ;)

(Okay, typical mammoth post to follow: :rolleyes:)
Postmaster said:
There are people that talk of the oneness of religion. That fundamentally it comes from one devine source. But what if, just as the conflict we have on a earth there is conflict in the devine and mystical world and there is a struggle to gain our influence?
Postmaster,

Could you say more about this. What you mean, exactly ...

In particular, what do you mean by "to gain our influence?" Since this follows mention of a struggle in spiritual worlds, are you suggesting that perhaps a spiritual war or battle is occurring over the very Soul of Humanity, as it were? That our minds (and hearts!) are the battleground - and that Ideas themselves can be like the very Sword and Shield which every warrior uses in the battle?

If so (or regardless), then this is precisely what I believe. And that War, is called Armageddon. My beliefs here may even dovetail somewhat with those of Mee ... though certainly not in all particulars. The Great War - marked by two periods of physical conflict, and really just a lull in between - WAS the onset, and principal battle, of Armageddon, I would suggest. Therefore, certainly dating from 1914 ... all the way through 1945, the battle in the Heavens was at its climax.

My own understanding is that ideally this war would have been contained in the realm of mind. Humanity's suffering would have been great, and the peril would have been global, regardless ... and every effort was made to contain this darkest of times in the subjective. But we would not allow this, as Humanity itself insisted on making it an outward, physical conflict. Really this is the path of least resistance, and it demonstrates that there were not sufficient numbers of true disciples, or enough disciples willing to make the necessary personal sacrifices ... in the world at that time.

Today, I like to believe that things are different! :) But Armageddon is not over! And so if my original indications are in line with what you were saying, Postmaster, then we should consider where the battlefront is today. Where, for example, is there evidence that the evils of materialism, of selfishness, and of authoritarianism in ANY FORM ... are most rampant? Among which nations, which groups of people, and in what ways do we see this active?

Ugghhh ... I kind of don't like asking that, because it's not about finger-pointing at all, and I'm plenty selfish & materialistic myself! :eek: I think that most of us could admit this, and many of us are probably also aware of it enough to be doing something to combat it! You know - `Live simply, that others may simply LIVE!' ;)

The real battle, symbolized by Sri Krishna in His discourse to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, is the personal Kurukshetra - fought within the heart of every human being. Mohammad also taught that we must face this battle, and emerge triumphant. He called it `jihad,' and of the five types of jihad, most are clearly about the individual (and inner) struggle. Also, the word `Israel' means struggle with God, while `Emmanuel' means God is with us, or Peace. :)

And yet
, what is true for the individual (in principle), is true for Humanity (at large). `As above, so below.' Nations, and groups, are ensouled - just as are people. Thus the incredible pressure, the tension, the strain, and the challenges which face us in coming together as Nations ... just as sometimes it is well-nigh impossible to get a group of people with their individual differences to sit around one table and discuss something calmly and rationaly. I mean, wow, even for some families (the basic group unit among Humanity) to come together and break bread - would pretty much LITERALLY require an act of God, would it not??? :eek::p

How much more difficult, then, is the task before World Servers (of every country, ethnic background, religion, and political affiliation) ... of working toward Global Unification! It is truly a daunting task!!! And yes, I do think that there are still forces - quite prevalent in some countries, also among certain mindsets - which oppose unification. These operate at many levels, and unforunately, the ignorance of many people can itself be the greatest barrier. This is something that is seized upon and exploited by the forces of darkness ... and these certainly do still exist (rather obviously!).

But it is only the truly sinister exponents of evil that have bent all their energies to the very destruction of Humanity. They are fighting now their very hardest ... because they are desperate!!! The DEFEAT of the Axis powers in WWII meant the END of the reign of evil upon this planet, and so to speak bluntly, the days of the dark ones ARE NUMBERED. :D

Yet, if we go foolishly charging in, brandishing our father's favorite ceremonial sword ... it will only be an inconvenience for Those who must lend us Their Shield. Having a right sense of proportion, and appreciating the fact that progress is slow, albeit certain - seems key. Some would even argue that if the necessary sacrifices had been made, the advent of the New Era might have come a full Century before its due. But whatever the case, the Great War brought us to the crux which was destined. And through the Saving Hand of Powers beyond our ken (`Divine Intervention') ... here we are! :)

I'm not suggesting that we ignore the struggle in the Inner Worlds. But I do wish to stress that in terms of the metaphor of a battle (best to see it that way until is slowly dawns how real this actually is) ... remember, there are lines. Or in terms of modern warfare, Divisions. Every single one of us plays a part, and in the Great Kurukshetra, the record will clearly indicate who fought where, alongside whom, how well, how valiantly, how skillfully, and how honorably. But that being said, it is useful to pause for a moment, from time to time, and assess the scene before us ... and around us, on every side. The General will afford us a glimpse of the Vision, as readily as the Lieutenant, but both will also depend on us hold up our end! ;)

As for the true nature of the Forces (both of Light and of Darkness) arrayed against each other in this ongoing struggle, I do highly recommend a reading of the Song of the Lord - The Bhagavad Gita, if you haven't read this recently. The key point is that it will surprise us to realize that the lines aren't drawn quite as clearly, as neatly, or as conveniently as we might wish to believe. In fact, since the very first line is the one drawn between our own imperfection and the potential Perfection of the Christ, the remaining lines will ALL be difficult and painful to recognize. They run through the very hearts and minds of our family, our friends, our associates, and of course, everyone we know and meet. Precious few are those who have fought this battle and overcome it.

And so I would suggest that it will be a LONG time before Earth herself, as a whole, is finished with this Battle. Perhaps the most advantageous thing we can do - is to identify WHAT are those Spiritual Qualities that we desire to cultivate within ourselves and to encounter within others, Universal in their presence within ALL peoples everywhere ... latent, needing only to be emphasized in order for us to see them. If we can make a list, and see the connections between these qualities, their overlap and how they complement one another, then I think we will be well on the way to answering your question.

If we go further, and begin to visualize these qualities, and try to SEE them in action - both in ourselves, and in the lives of everyone we know - then we will have taken another significant step to answering your question. And there are many who do this regularly, others who know the practice well enough. Thackeray suggested it, here:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"Sow a thought, and reap an action.
Sow an action, and reap a habit.
Sow a habit, and reap character.
Sow character and reap destiny."
[/FONT]​
Of course, the cultivation of these qualities - sown in us by God, nurtured and brought to fruition by each Individual - is why we are here. And that is every bit as true of the dark ones as of the Servers of Light. Some are misguided, but the best spiritual advice of all is for us to live in such a way that we offer them NOTHING in terms of a foothold, no chink in the armor.

~~~~

I'm out of steam. (Thank God!) ;)

Cheers,

taijasi
 
Postmaster said:
There are people that talk of the oneness of religion. That fundamentally it comes from one devine source.
I believe in Oneness of Religion by choice,not be compulsion.To me there is no difference between a True Zoroastrian,a True Hindu,a True Buddhist, a True Jew,a True Christian, a True Muslim etc, since the source is One God,the difference is superficial.
I am an Ahmadi a faith in Islam.
Thanks
 
taijasi said:
The real battle, symbolized by Sri Krishna in His discourse to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, is the personal Kurukshetra - fought within the heart of every human being. Mohammad also taught that we must face this battle, and emerge triumphant. He called it `jihad,' and of the five types of jihad, most are clearly about the individual (and inner) struggle. Also, the word `Israel' means struggle with God, while `Emmanuel' means God is with us, or Peace.
Thackeray suggested it, here:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"Sow a thought, and reap an action.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Sow an action, and reap a habit.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Sow a habit, and reap character.
Sow character and reap destiny."
[/FONT]
Of course, the cultivation of these qualities - sown in us by God, nurtured and brought to fruition by each Individual - is why we are here.Cheers,

taijasi
I like your above post.
Muhammad was a prince of peace.
Thanks
 
By my way of belief, the world that we all try to live in and survive in is a reflection of the universe of spirit from whence it was produced. As such it is a "reflection" of the great war between light and darkness that has been going on forever.

Remember that G-d's first act of creation in Genesis is that sh/he "let there be light". Darkness generally rules the universe, but light is an exception. Light is explosive and darkness is a cloaking and smothering reality. Light is 1-5% of universal reality, and darkness is the rest.

Light illuminates the hidden and educates us with regards to possible futures, which then implies the need for measuring the passages of time.The Dead Sea Scrolls mentions the "war between the sons of light and the sons of darkness" prominently in many of its sources, but all of that is seldom mentioned in today's culture except for symbolic and mythological constructions such as the Star Wars sagas.

This war which underlies all of our realities and which always has is ever present, but is seldom spoken about in specifics since it is a reflection of spirit realities which we can only speculate about and create religious dogmas to explain and describe.

Any thoughts ?

flow....:)
 
inhumility said:
I believe in Oneness of Religion by choice,not be compulsion.To me there is no difference between a True Zoroastrian,a True Hindu,a True Buddhist, a True Jew,a True Christian, a True Muslim etc, since the source is One God,the difference is superficial.

But how do you know there is one God? How do you then know that that "one God" is the source of all the religions to which you refer?
I know of a good many people who believe that this concept is the work of the Devil, and that it keeps us from the real truth.

Forces like the ones Postmaster referred to would certainly also have the power to strongly influence, or even compel, and leave us feeling that we have freely chosen.



As a kid sitting in church I used to wonder, what if we've got it wrong, what if we're praying to wrong person? In the end I came to the conclusion that the people in that church did have it wrong. I now believe that people of all religions can find God, or whatever it is. Having this belief, I now sometimes wonder if the people in my old church were right, what if there is only one religion, one path to God. What if I am now being deceived?

I have my views about God, and I'll stand by them. I will also however, remember that they are only views and when I pray I ask God to forgive me if I am wrong.
 
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
taijasi said:
"Sow a thought, and reap an action.
Sow an action, and reap a habit.
Sow a habit, and reap character.
Sow character and reap destiny."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Wow, I just posted this quote yesteday on another forum. Fancy that.

[/FONT]​
 
Postmaster said:
There are people that talk of the oneness of religion. That fundamentally it comes from one devine source. But what if, just as the conflict we have on a earth there is conflict in the devine and mystical world and there is a struggle to gain our influence?

I believe that humanity has tended to explain the world around itself in ways that were effective expressions of the cultures and persons perceiving it.

There is arguably only one sky, one sun, one sea, but these have always been attributed with cultural and personal qualities, I'd suggest as projections from the cultures that experienced them.

Yet there is only one sky, one sun, one sea - not many skies, suns, or seas in conflict:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/articles/parable_sea.php

I'd make the same argument about Divinity, always personified and attributed with the qualities of the society describing them.

2c.
 
Covey, seek first to understand, then to be understood...
Who has spoken the most truth? Who should the person who asked believe most? Organised belief insists you believe only one.
the parable of the sea works, worked decades, centuries and millenia ago..

We now have circumnavigated the globe and are working on our psyche, we understand their are different perspectives and also the inherent truth in them based on their perspective.

And we can understand why one would see things differently....the parable disolves with communication and understanding.
 
But there are not many different skies, nor many different suns, nor many different seas - though different cultures have long given these often very conflicting attributes according to their own cultural idioms.

One concept - many perceptions, and many different names and attributions with it.

As with the sky, the sun, and the sea, so with Divinity IMO.
 
"It's not what we know that gets us into trouble, it's what we know just ain't so." -Will Rogers
 
What is "so"? :)


The idea of divine and or mystical conflict... One could choose to be an atheist, one could choose to follow one true God. One could choose to following thousands of Gods and still be satisfied in his mind that there is room for other ideas at the same time without turning nasty.. The idea of everything belonging together is kind of illiberal? And also would not be able to distinguish between negative mysticism and positive.
 
Back
Top