christians beleive god sent jesus down to save our sins, how does this work...what sins?and if he removed our sins...then why dont we go to heaven...you probably will reply because people didnt accept him...bus so what...he saved our sins right?
if God saved our sins,why dont we go straight to heaven?
- Thread starter Zaakir
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paul
recovering sinner
Zaakir said:
i don't beleive chrisianity orignally taught this at all, he was sent to forgive our sins, to offer us forgiveness.
if someone commited a crime, and wasn't sorry, was even forgiven but continued to commit the same crime having no intention of stopping, having no remorse, then how is such a one at one with God, even an earthly king would be foolish to welcome such into their kingdom, wouldn't you agree?
lets say this king was truly righteous and merciful, lets say he loved his people, lets say he wanted only good for them, offered them a righteous way to live, was full of wisdom, had all the answers to their problems, but they just didn't listen, but would rather endulge and commit crimes and teat one another badly.
lets say this king had it in his power to destroy all these people, and maybe justly so, but what if out of his love, he wanted to try and save them, to truly teach them a way of righteousness.
how could he truly do this beyond measure, what if he was to sacrfice and suffer for his own sinful people.
for a king may do this for his own righteous people who obeyed him.
but what if this king was willing to do this to those who had disobeyed him.
so what if the most righteous the most merciful, God himself did this for us, is there then any evil in this or isn't this even beyond goodness, beyond mercy, that our God would do such a thing for us.
and for what reason did He do it, not for us to continue to live unrighteously, but he showed us love in his own life, in human flesh.
what he offers us is love, for us to live in the love which is him.
for God is love, and truly shows us so, in coming to us as christ.
he offers us forgiveness when we are yet sinners, he died for us when we were yet sinners, but not for us to remain so, for we also are to have mercy as he does, we are to love others as he has loved us.
and our love for others, as God's for us, is not for us to remain in sin, but ourslves wanting to live by God's love, and wanting others saved from their sin.
for this is a sinful world, and we all do sin, have sinned, by conemning others we condemn ourselves.
evil is still evil, and righteousness we are to live by and encourage others in, and this by our own actions and life, as God himself did in taking human flesh.
it's only by love that evil can be defeated, and didn't God do that in Christ?
paul said:
Well put. If I'm drowning (surrounded by sin) and am thrown a rope to help pull me out of certain death (a gift of redemtion from above), yet I refuse to accept the rope, do I still not drown?
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Dondi
Well-Known Member
Quahom1 said:Well put. If I'm drowning (surrounded by sin) and am thrown a rope to help pull me out of certain death (a gift of redemtion from above), yet I refuse to accept the rope, do I still not drown?
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What about those who don't know they are drowning?
Dondi said:
Kind of hard to know one is not drowning. Kind of hard to know something is not missing in life. Even the toughest of men, know pain and dread. It may be the indescribable thing, but it is something they sense. Even animals sense when things are amiss. And they have no preconceptions.
I am reminded of a very popular song back in the early 70s. "Is that all there is?, then let's keep dancing, lets' strike up the booze and all..."
We know.
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No, not everyone does.Quahom1 said:Kind of hard to know one is not drowning. Kind of hard to know something is not missing in life. Even the toughest of men, know pain and dread. It may be the indescribable thing, but it is something they sense. Even animals sense when things are amiss. And they have no preconceptions.
I am reminded of a very popular song back in the early 70s. "Is that all there is?, then let's keep dancing, lets' strike up the booze and all..."
We know.
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The fact that you think they should, or can't understand why they don't doesn't change anything.
What about thode who don't know they are drowning? Think about it! Everyone is born with the sense of right from wrong are they not? And to the answer in the beginning of this thread. Jesus saved us so that are soul MAY be forgiven!!! (belive me i am slow to anger but you people) Some people have no idea what they are saying (not to be rude or anything). It has been written (somewhere can't remember) that your spirit goes through a journey on the way to heaven and will be continously tempted. One such as ignorant as you will not last a second! As i write this the phrase "The fear of death renders a man sad through the ignorance of his soul" are you afraid of death? If you are, then may God help because i wonder why? Could it be because you thing in a way of such stupidity that whatever you, however bad God will forgive you? In my opinion before Jesus God barely gave man a chance, so please be greatful! And another thing why would have Jesus preached the things he had preached if 'in the end everyone (or 'we' as you call it)was to be forgiven'. The be forgiven one must truly mean it from the whole heart!
I will end this with a speech "To live, indeed, is not in our power, but to live rightly is". You got that?
I will end this with a speech "To live, indeed, is not in our power, but to live rightly is". You got that?
cavalier said:No, not everyone does.
The fact that you think they should, or can't understand why they don't doesn't change anything.
Then by your own statement the Bible is a lie. For God was specific when He stated, "On to every man's heart is written the Law...".
I can only go by what the Bible says in this instance, and it states we all know intrinsically, what is right and what is wrong, what is truth and what is a lie.
Not my personal thoughts Cav. They are scripturally based...
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Firstly, would you tell me where in the Bible that is. I don't dispute that it's in there, I would just like a chance to read it and to properly think about it.
Secondly, I do not accept everything that is written in the Bible. This does not mean I think it is a lie, a lie is something which the speaker or writer knows is not true.
Secondly, I do not accept everything that is written in the Bible. This does not mean I think it is a lie, a lie is something which the speaker or writer knows is not true.
cavalier said:
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Firstly, as per your request: "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts."—Hebrews 8:10.
Secondly, I'm sorry you do not consider the Bible as acceptable in it's entirety. I happen to find the truth in its words growing day by day.
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Secondly, I'm sorry you do not consider the Bible as acceptable in it's entirety. I happen to find the truth in its words growing day by day.
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Am I missing something here? It seems that this text would only strengthen my point. This is a covenant made with the house of Israel. God will put His laws into the hearts and minds of the members of the house of Israel.Quahom1 said:
What if though, you do not belong to the house of Israel?
Sorry to keep doing this, I'm not as knowledgable as you, could you give me the reference again. I did not forget about the branch (though time will tell if I was mistaken as to it's meaning.) I thought however, that it referred to those who believed in Christ Jesus and would therefore not include everyone.Quahom1 said:You forgot about the "branch" grafted onto the tree?...that is we...
cavalier said:
You are correct. It is (the branch grafted onto the tree) all men, who accept Christ. The rest take their chances (according to Christian doctrine).
And if you are declaring what of those who don't accept Christ...well, I don't know. I guess they'll find out in the final days.
See, Christians will stand before God just like everyone else, at the end. However, Christians will not have to justify their lives (as in going one way or the other). They will be judged on their merits, after they became Christians. So the reward they may have stored in heaven will be the issue.
Me? I'll be blessed just to get through the gates...
Get it now?
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Finally.
Let me remind you how this started, Dondi asked the question, "What about those who don't know they are drowning?"
You replied,
I pointed out that actually there were those who were not aware. When I made this statement I was not referring to those who have been saved through Christ Jesus.
Now, finally it appears that you have "got it" and realised that there are those who do not know they are drowning.
Let me remind you how this started, Dondi asked the question, "What about those who don't know they are drowning?"
You replied,
Quahom1 said:
I pointed out that actually there were those who were not aware. When I made this statement I was not referring to those who have been saved through Christ Jesus.
Now, finally it appears that you have "got it" and realised that there are those who do not know they are drowning.
Always Right
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Christ Jesus had forgiven our sins ,One has to believe HE died for you and lead a perfect life without going on living a life of sin .
enton
www.theoldpath.tv
Hello Zaakir, I read your avatar and it says "part of ummah"Zaakir said:
I have posts there, just locate my username enton .
Anyway, you talked about us (christians). Part of the plans of God the Father in saving mankind from the deceit of satan (the father of lies, the god of this world), is the manifestation of Christ in human flesh. In fact the war between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent started in when in Genesis 3:15 God said: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
With that verse as basis, Christ was sent forth by the Father as mediator. So, when he was nailed on the cross, he bore the sins of the world. The only thing for the men to be saved is to do and experience what Jesus did. Jesus Christ, who knew no sin, experienced water baptism through immersion. Jesus Christ is an obedient Son to His Father. And as a mediatore and fulfiller of the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6, you should have to be an obedient son to Christ (The everlasting Father, Prince of Peace )
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Why children of resurrection?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
So first and foremost, baptism before salvation.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.