What is the future of Islam?

iBrian

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Since September 11th 2001 there has been a wild backlash against Islam in western opinion, which all too easily sees it as a violent, radical and intolerent religion.

My questions with reagrds this thread is now about how the world perceives Islam - but how Islam sees it's own future.

More implictly, I'd like to address theological development in Islam - namely, in comparing the development of Christianity over the past few centuries.

Through this comparison I'd like to especially illustrate the issue of how Christianity moved away from "Sola Scriptura" (ie, belief in the Bible as the direct and irrefutable Word of God).

I wonder as to whether - at some envisaged point - a distinct liberal branch of Islam will grow and take root, and question every fundamental notion of Islam, as like how Liberal Christianity has done.

For the moment, any growth in this area seems contrained, not least by societal constructs of countries advocating some degree of Shi'a law, but also by the antagonism in Christianised countries that 9/11 created.

In short, what is the future of Islam?
 
I guess they have a great future. Let's not over react the opinions in "the western world" after 9/11. Only in a very small part of the "western world" there's been a difference in how muslims are perceived. Let's not forget the U.S. represents only 5% of the world population. Outside the U.S. more then 70% of the population even questions muslims being involved with that whole 9/11 thing (half of the Europeans believe Bush&co did it to make their Orwellian world domination dream come true, Europeans have seen Hitler do the same with the Reichsdag.). If you look in Europe and other continents there's not much, or even nothing, changed towards muslims. and there are only a few extremists, the majority of the muslims just wants a happy life with their families just as we do. and we can all live very well next to eachother.

The U.S. is not excactly the best place to get a neutral opinion on these matters I guess.
 
The future of Islam might be a short one.

Islam - definition. To submit (not peace). Inference according to the Qu'ran: Submit to our way or die. Islam (and the Arab Islamic world) will not be destroyed by the Western World. For the west is very tolerant, almost to the point of cowardice (almost). No, Islam's end will come from the Far East, where there is absolutely NO TOLERANCE. The Far Eastern governments will not allow anyone to attempt to undermine their authority. The Far Eastern Governments view life even cheaper than the Arab Muslim Hiearchy (any life that is not their own). Following the "manifest mandate" of the Islamic law (that all people become Muslim), the middle eastern world will make the mistake of attempting to undermine the Far Eastern Governments, and World War III will come into full force.

China will put an end to any who attempt to oppose their way of life.

Don't take my word for it...just watch things unfold and continue to unfold.

I'm not saying China is right, I'm saying it is what China is going to do.

My two cents.
 
well

well, i feel in your assumption of Chinas role in "wwIII" you are sorely mistaken, for one China is the oldest civilization in the world and it is not because they are so big, or because somehow the chinese seem to live for a real long time or because they have strong kung fu

it is because China, as a nation, has always upheld a "walk the middle path" philosophy, which simply means..they keep to themselves..of course China has had its fair share of change occur over the millenia, regardless this general philosophy has existed throughout its entire history

now, some can point a finger and say, well what about Chinas role in the korean war? or the vietnam war, well simply put it was a brand new China, they were communists helping out other Communists like Communists always do, but over the decades China has changed drastically, including its foreign relations with the U.S.

now it is a known fact that China, as a general population still today upholds the "middle path" philosophy, so i seriously doubt..as a scholar of China and its people, that they will be engaging in any mass murder of the middle eastern countries, which they have no part of anyway, well except for maybe some illegal weapons deals, but then again, as i say China has changed and it is still a third world country..

anyway, nough said about China

imho, i dont really know enough about islam to say where it will go because really i got no damn idea where its been..i will say this though, 9/11 has opened up alot of peoples eyes to islam ingeneral, atleast more people know about it! because i tell ya, i didnt know diddly squat before the towers fell..now i know a vast amount more...

amitabha
 
Zazen,

Of course I could be wrong, and would/will be very glad and relieved to admit it. However, my "theory" has valid points which indicate a strong potential for these events to take place. You are correct about the people of China, and I am correct about the Government of China (past performance in this case can be used to predict future possibilities, particularly when the past performance is based on the last 65 years and the Chinese government has not changed much during that time).

Islam itself is not the problem. Fundamental Islam followed by people with geo-political ulterior motives is the problem. Fundamentalist Muslims do not follow Mohamad the prophet of peace and tolerance. They ignore that part of his teachings completely. Instead they follow the teachings of Mohamad the warrior, of forcing conversion, of enslavement, or death to all who oppose Islam. Only it is now taken to extremes.

It used to be "Conquer the infidel who attempts encroachment upon our home, our people, our lands".

Now it is "Conquer the entire world, for all are infidels."

One cannot say what the people of a nation will or will not do, because the are peaceful people.

The soldiers of the American Civil War were peaceful people.
The soldiers of Vietnam were originally peaceful people (literally boys and girls, not even fully adult yet).
The soldiers of WWI were peaceful people (they were even chivilrous in the beginning of the war), going so far as to stop fighting and celebrate Christmas together.

I could go on, but my point is the one thing all had in common, was that the leaders of the country issued a Call to Arms, and the peaceful people answered the call, resulting in some of the bloodiest wars ever known on Earth.

Now, add religion to the matrix, and an intention to enforce compliance of that religion on the vanquished...

Look at the Crusades tragedy, and the misery and loss of life that resulted. Now, a new Crusades is rearing its head.

The Chinese did not defend North Korea because of communism being a common denomenator, they defended North Korea because of fear that they would be next! Why? Past history of conquerors were never satisfied with their gain, and seemed to always push further (including into China). The new Communists of China, with the old memories of being conquered, galvanized them to move fast and decisively.

No, rather than deal with suicide bombers and attempt strategic defenses against a threat, they may well decide on tactical offenses and just eliminate the threat, by eliminating the place where the threat originated.

Again, I may be very wrong, and frankly, I hope so...
 
its never happened

in chinas history theyve never done that, the only places theyve taken over were places they STRONGLY felt were part of their homeland, like tibet(even though i disagree with it being part of china) and now with the taiwan situation

but really, china just keeps to itself, despite the constant attacks by surrounding countrys like the mongols, manchus, japanese etc etc

they really just do keep to themselves, they fight back..yes they do fight, but they really dont ever make the first move
 
knee jerk reatctions

Throughout the period 1970 to 2001, whenever a plane crashed, it was normal for 'Arab terrorists' to be named - this before any inquiry into the crash.

At the end of the Cold War, CIA and Pentagon reports stated that the threat to US power could only be attacked through terrorist mthods.

Two days before the attack on the World Trade Centre in the USA, former President Clinton expresased concern that President Bush showed no interest in the Middle East.

The worst wars of recent history have not been religious but economic and political. Without comming to terms with this, I am not convinced that continued vague references to 'Islam' are helpful.It also seems to have been forgotten that the war in Bosnia (the most recent war possibly attributable to religion and begun by 'Christians') attracted mercinaries from the Middle East, who were appalled by the Western behaviour of the local Muslims.


Regards

Martin Hogan
 
Islam headed to be like Amish communities

I said:
Since September 11th 2001 there has been a wild backlash against Islam in western opinion, which all too easily sees it as a violent, radical and intolerent religion.

My questions with reagrds this thread is now about how the world perceives Islam - but how Islam sees it's own future.

More implictly, I'd like to address theological development in Islam - namely, in comparing the development of Christianity over the past few centuries.

Through this comparison I'd like to especially illustrate the issue of how Christianity moved away from "Sola Scriptura" (ie, belief in the Bible as the direct and irrefutable Word of God).

I wonder as to whether - at some envisaged point - a distinct liberal branch of Islam will grow and take root, and question every fundamental notion of Islam, as like how Liberal Christianity has done.

For the moment, any growth in this area seems contrained, not least by societal constructs of countries advocating some degree of Shi'a law, but also by the antagonism in Christianised countries that 9/11 created.

In short, what is the future of Islam?

As science and technology and mass media make headways into Islam or more correctly prevail among Muslim men and women, Islam like Christianity will be so liberalized and diluted that only a small minority seek to remain true to the more obscurantist beliefs and practices of Islam, the vast majority will go for Santa Claus and St. Valentine, their Islamic equivalents.

In the meantime for now and urgently the Western powers should seek out the fanatics before they extinguish the world and mankind with weapons of mass destruction, should they get their hands on them, and neutralize them, the fanatics that is.

Otherwise, human life might have to start all over again.

Susma Rio Sep
 
I disagree that globalisation is inevitable. We will need six times the resources available on Earth to sustain globalisation, so it has severe drawbacks. It is telling that, in Western secular societies, world leaders have a tendency to be white, male and attend Christian churches; they also tend to be close to if not actual millionaires. The link between state political parties and ‘globalisation’ must be understood; it is not simply a matter of everyone deciding to buy a product, it is the result of political agreements (military spending being an obvious example) and at times ridiculous statements by governments (fast food does not make you fat, smoking does not cause cancer, global warming is not happening). The ‘Liberal West’ (‘Liberal’ is a term of abuse in US politics) is showing its lack of toleration by prohibiting aspects of religion, which will, arguably, not tackle the problems it claims to be trying to deal with. The ubiquity of the cross in Western culture will make it much harder to ‘hide’. This liberalism has, in mot cases, been used primarily as a political tool between Christian states and did not in any case involve other religions; its current definition sees to seek to exclude religion and – by extension – any grounding for morality outside of economics and capital.

Has any research been carried out into the congruence of the belief in One God and the belief in one political/ economic system – which is what is implied through globalisation?

If we look at China, we see human rights abuses being largely ignored, I would argue because it is embracing capitalism and the ‘global economy’. Other countries fare less well because they do not support transferring their economic and social independence as readily to the financial centres of the West. Women’s rights are selectively supported by the US administration because of the anti-abortion stance of the current administration.

When we ask ‘what next for Islam?’ we must also ask ‘what next for the West?’ and ‘what happened to religion in the West?’ Human rights available in the West are there only because of a large rights based ‘industry’, people checking on company and governmental behaviour in order to keep it in order.

There are serious problems with handing over one’s society to a world economy. Murder and suicide rates are high, poverty remains endemic (following the Pareto rule), Human rights are not improved in most countries and there are many cases of deteriorations following Western intervention. Islamic societies must decide how Western they wish to become, each making their own choices and taking on those pieces which they find helpful.

There will never be one culture throughout the world, as the failure of European domination over the past 600 years has shown. The future of Islam cannot be considered simply as a reactive query but in how and why the West has a right to affect it.

Regards

Martin Hogan
 
Zdrastvuitsye, hola, shalom, salaam, Dia dhuit, namastar ji, hej, konnichiwa, squeak, meow, :wave:, mahogan.

Intriguing ideas you've brought up. Alas, I don't have the time to gather my thoughts together right now for a responding post, but I was reading it and thought a bit about the former Soviet Union (one of my classes this semester is on that very topic.) When I can, I'll try to write up a post using my vague thought processes. :)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
 
Imho

The New Islam

When democracy is installed in Iraq, it will have a snow-ball effect with other Islam ruled countries. Chechnya will soon receive autonomy for self-rule but will still be under Russian control.

Islam beliefs will be modernized whereby slavery to Allah will be frowned upon. One needs to keep an open mind and allow the spirit to absorb the logic of who/what Allah/God is without being inhibited by what should be considered religious dogma and conditioning. Allah does not change with the times but our perception of who Allah is should change as societies eliminate their superstitious beliefs. GOD/Allah, the Ultimate Spirit consists of Supreme Purity, Pure Intelligence, Pure Logic, etc., is not encumbered by human attributes and has no needs, or a desire to be worshiped, prayed to, exalted, venerated, deified, or anything else that we have to offer. He/it is comparable to a Master Planner who/that guides the universe rather than controls it; not this mighty ruler who wishes to enslave mankind, but a peaceful coexistence of the spirits or souls of many of our forefathers, past prophets, and all who lived righteously; Cultures change with time. Allah has always been the same, but our perception of him/it will vary with time.

With USA help the Iraq people will be the most prosperous of all Muslim nations and it is they who will unite the Islam tribes. Iraq oil wells will soon have a daily output of over 10 million barrels a day. The power of OPEC and the Saudi Arabia control over it will soon be greatly diminished or eliminated.
 
kkawohl said:
The New Islam

When democracy is installed in Iraq, it will have a snow-ball effect with other Islam ruled countries. Chechnya will soon receive autonomy for self-rule but will still be under Russian control.

Islam beliefs will be modernized whereby slavery to Allah will be frowned upon. One needs to keep an open mind and allow the spirit to absorb the logic of who/what Allah/God is without being inhibited by what should be considered religious dogma and conditioning. Allah does not change with the times but our perception of who Allah is should change as societies eliminate their superstitious beliefs. GOD/Allah, the Ultimate Spirit consists of Supreme Purity, Pure Intelligence, Pure Logic, etc., is not encumbered by human attributes and has no needs, or a desire to be worshiped, prayed to, exalted, venerated, deified, or anything else that we have to offer. He/it is comparable to a Master Planner who/that guides the universe rather than controls it; not this mighty ruler who wishes to enslave mankind, but a peaceful coexistence of the spirits or souls of many of our forefathers, past prophets, and all who lived righteously; Cultures change with time. Allah has always been the same, but our perception of him/it will vary with time.

With USA help the Iraq people will be the most prosperous of all Muslim nations and it is they who will unite the Islam tribes. Iraq oil wells will soon have a daily output of over 10 million barrels a day. The power of OPEC and the Saudi Arabia control over it will soon be greatly diminished or eliminated.
Greetings KKawohl,

I truly hope this in fact occurs. Growing up in an Arab-American community during the first 20 years of life, allowed me to see exactly what you profess, as in fact being potentially true. However, my recent return to that same neighborhood, has shown a radical departure from what used to be. I am hated in the very neighborhood I was raised in, by strangers who are not even born of this land. Even the old Arab-American neighbors are gone, because they could not tolerate the rage of the new.

This rage among the Arab people is not religiously based. It is something else, and religion seems to be the outlet for it.

Don't know, if democracy will take hold in that part of the world, as we now know it. But I hope.
 
kkawohl said:
The New Islam

When democracy is installed in Iraq, it will have a snow-ball effect with other Islam ruled countries. Chechnya will soon receive autonomy for self-rule but will still be under Russian control.

...

With USA help the Iraq people will be the most prosperous of all Muslim nations and it is they who will unite the Islam tribes. Iraq oil wells will soon have a daily output of over 10 million barrels a day. The power of OPEC and the Saudi Arabia control over it will soon be greatly diminished or eliminated.
Heck, where have you been the past few months? Is the Iraqi population not a nation that has learned to hate America most vehemently? Are you really saying that the Iraqi people will suddenly vote in a US-friendly administration and allow their hate to be bought off with oil?? We are far more likely stood on the the Iraqi-version of the same precipice as when the Shah of Iran fled that country in the 70's.

As for Chechnya - it was/is a Russian-controlled (and brutal) automony. The Chechnyans loved it so much that they blew up the Russian-appointed Chechnyan president last week. Did they show that on the news where you are?
 
In short- Many Muslims lack education (i can go into more detail, but i have no time right now). Why? extremists think they know everything- and therefore, stops influenced Muslims from becoming educated- they don't see what they are really doing to the religion's name.
On the other hand, you must Not forget, that the western media emphasises mainly on those Muslim extremists. Take my advise, dont be blinded by either- the extremists nor the media. Gain your own knowledge about Islam the old fashioned way, "BOOKS"!

Islam is still the fastest growing religion of the world. most of those converts are women.
 
Indeed, imagine if the only place you saw Christians regular on TV were the IRA, UDA, or Lords Army - it would not suggest a respectable opinion of Christianity. :)
 
Muhammad-Khalifa said:
In short- Many Muslims lack education (i can go into more detail, but i have no time right now). Why? extremists think they know everything- and therefore, stops influenced Muslims from becoming educated- they don't see what they are really doing to the religion's name.
On the other hand, you must Not forget, that the western media emphasises mainly on those Muslim extremists. Take my advise, dont be blinded by either- the extremists nor the media. Gain your own knowledge about Islam the old fashioned way, "BOOKS"!

Islam is still the fastest growing religion of the world. most of those converts are women.
Often, the leaders of such terror groups are radical Muslim clerics. Are these men not educated? How did they come to such a position then?
Books encourage theory, not practicality. This is how Islam comes across. Everyone says follow the Qu'ran, and yet there's noone who seems to do so. Where is the model Islamic society? Show us that Islam can be implemented successfully.
 
I said:
Heck, where have you been the past few months? Is the Iraqi population not a nation that has learned to hate America most vehemently? Are you really saying that the Iraqi people will suddenly vote in a US-friendly administration and allow their hate to be bought off with oil?? We are far more likely stood on the the Iraqi-version of the same precipice as when the Shah of Iran fled that country in the 70's.

As for Chechnya - it was/is a Russian-controlled (and brutal) automony. The Chechnyans loved it so much that they blew up the Russian-appointed Chechnyan president last week. Did they show that on the news where you are?
My view of Iraq is where it will be 20 or more years from now. They now produce about 2 million barrels of oil per day. When that reaches 10, with the Iraqi people being the sole beneficiaries thereof, their views of the US will have changed. The main goal of the US is to eliminate an OPEC stranglehold on oil (which was Sadaam's intention) that could sink the world economy.

Chechnya is now supposedly completely under Russian rule. They will eventually receive autonomy for self-rule but will still be under Russian control.

Kurt
 
samabudhi said:
Often, the leaders of such terror groups are radical Muslim clerics. Are these men not educated? How did they come to such a position then?
Books encourage theory, not practicality. This is how Islam comes across. Everyone says follow the Qu'ran, and yet there's noone who seems to do so. Where is the model Islamic society? Show us that Islam can be implemented successfully.
Radical Muslim clerics seek power & control by wanting Islam controlled governments. Their goal is to brain-wash the gullible by claiming that they are Allah's chosen ones to lead the people. Islam, Christianity and Judaism is still clinging to the antiquated beliefs of the Dark Ages. It is time to be realistic and rational. A model Islamic society is one that stays out of their government affairs completely.

Kurt
 
Quahom1 said:
This rage among the Arab people is not religiously based. It is something else, and religion seems to be the outlet for it.

Don't know, if democracy will take hold in that part of the world, as we now know it. But I hope.
That rage has been stoked mostly by radicals & religious extremists. Religious extremists are the most dangerous, they feed on gullibility. Understandably, the US is seen as the enemy now but if democracy takes hold in that region, that view will change.

Kurt
 
kkawohl said:
The main goal of the US is to eliminate an OPEC stranglehold on oil (which was Sadaam's intention) that could sink the world economy.
The problem was - as the Christian Right had been arguing for years - is that the supply of Saudi oil for 30% of US domestic needs was entirely unpredictable in the long-term, due to rampant fundamentalism there and a government that refused to acknowledge that it had a serious terrorist problem (blaming everything instead on supposed European worker alcohol running). Another major supplier was therefore a strategic necessity for hawkish US policy. So...all those thousands of Iraqi civilian dead (and US war dead) were killed just so that you could have cheap gas. I'm sure the Iraqi people will be eternally grateful for that.
 
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