Good Men Hate God

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Terrence

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[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]Good Men Hate God[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] There is a huge problem facing mankind. In the past, I believed that problem to be dying without being regenerated, which is to say, dying without being born again. This incidentally, is a problem indeed, but not the problem of which I speak of. The problem that I am referring to is more abhorrent and the ramifications of it is of great importance. My aim in this article is to expose, as best that I can, the exceeding sinfulness of mankind in direct correlation to the exceeding holiness of God and to juxtapose these two characteristics in order to expose the problem - namely, good people can't serve God because good people hate God. It's been said that when a spiritually dead person hears the problem of his sins and has his heart opened and exposed for all the evils that lies within it, he becomes angry and denies the truth. However, when a man made spiritually alive hears the truth of his sins and has his heart exposed for all the evil that lies within him, he becomes more appreciative of God's grace shown forth in the cross of Christ. It is my hopes that you may become more passionate for God and appreciate just how amazing grace really is. [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]Problem:[/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]"You shall have no other gods before me." [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] We have a Creator. Our Creator God is of infinite worth, infinite pleasure, infinite joy, infinite glory,and is infinitely better than all things we hold to be pleasurable and precious. The most loving thing that God has done for people is give Himself (since he is infinitely better than all things), for our eternal inheritance. Yet there is a problem. We have traded the worth of this infinitely wonderful and glorious God for other gods. This is sin, and it is of the worst kind. I've heard sin explained this way: "[/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]The essence of sin is that we love things and do things, that show that we do not desire and love God above those things."[/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] How precious and glorious is God? How valuable is he? How much does he think he is worth? The first two people on this earth, Adam and Eve, desired something lesser and esteemed it better than God and was cast out of his presence for it. That is how valuable God is and how much he knows he is worth. He will not share his glory with another. He is better and he knows it. As stated above, Adam and Eve ate of one fruit and was cast out of God's presence, how much more forbidden fruits have we eaten? How many gods do we put before our creator God? [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]Problem Elaborated:[/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]"You shall not commit idolatry; for God is a jealous God."[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] I will refrain from using the word "sinners," since that seems to have lost its saltiness and people have gotten used to saying, "I am a sinner" without understanding the exceeding sinfulness of sin and its infinite offense against a Holy God. In place of sinners, I will use the word evil. And so, for the rest of the article, the word evil will be used to express what man is apart from Christ. Most cultures today do not make idols of stone and worship it. Some do, but for the most part, modern man has evolved in his idol worshipping. I've heard idolatry explained this way: [/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]"The person or thing you put most of your time, effort, thought, and money into, is the thing or person you serve. This thing or person, whatever it may be, becomes your god and thus you have become an idolater."[/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] How does God feel about idolatry? Note Jesus' words in Mattew 10:37, [/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]"Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."[/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] God is not an idolater, he will put nothing above Himself and he will not share his glory with anything or any one else. Again, he is infinitely better. This is a problem for mankind. To read such words result in revealing emotions of hate, we cannot love a God like this. [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] He goes against the grain and goes against everything the god that we have created in our mind would do. The god of our mind, that is to say, the idol we have made and worshipped, resembles more the likeness of Santa Clause, than he does the God of the Bible. One of the Founding Fathers of the United States, Benjamin Franklin, once said that God created man in his own image and man returned the favor. This is the issue with man. The God of the bible is too demanding, too strict, too selfless and too holy. We are the opposite - too self-centered, too selfish, and too evil. How evil is man and how blind is he to his evil? Or stated another way, how holy is God and how numb to his perfection is man? The following anecdote may shed some light on the issue:[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]There was once a good atheist who was known for his good deeds and selfless acts of kindness. He lived a good life and was loved by all except one man - an enemy of his, who happened to be dying. Now, this enemy became an enemy by no fault of the good man, but instead was jealous of the good atheist' reputation. One day, after hearing of his enemy's situation, the good man found out that there was a special soup that he could make to save his enemy's life; a soup that he [the good man] alone knew how to make. Now, the good man sells everything he owns to buy all the ingredients to make this special soup and then proceeds to walk through a snow storm from one county to another, on both hands and knees, to bring his enemy this special soup. In the travel, the good man almost dies, but finally made it to his enemy's house to give him the soup. In almost an instant, after drinking the soup, the enemy makes a miraculously recovery and is saved.

[/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] Now question: Was that a good deed or a bad deed? It's sin. You may then protest and say, "he did a wonderful deed to his fellow man!" Yet, the more important question we ought to ask and almost never do is, "what about his God?" You see, what we need to come to terms with is that the universe does not revolve around man, but God. Man does not give you breath and wake you up in mornings. You are not here and living by your own doings, you must come to terms with this.

Furthermore, you can be good to men, but if you are not good to God, nothing counts. This is why the Bible says that whatever you do, whether you eat or drink, do it to the glory of God. Anything apart from that is evil. And herein lies the crux of the issue, we hold man's feelings above God. We are humanistic by nature as well as idolaters and God hates it. He is holy, and we are far from it. In fact, we are so far from understanding God's holiness that apart from Christ, we do not even understand why loving God above all things, including family, whether it be your mother or father or husband or wife, is wrong. It is foolish and offensive to us. Since this is the case, good men will not love God, because good men hates God. He takes their best deeds and likens them to that of a dirty menstration rag. [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] Good men will do wonderful things and be some of the most generous and moral people you will ever meet. They will come from different backgrounds and speak different languages. They will belong to many different religions, but never the right one. They will say, "my god is a god of Love and he would never send anyone to hell." They are right. Their god will never send anyone to hell because their god does not exist; he is a figment of their imagination. They have suppressed the truth of the true God and created another god, one who they are more comfortable with and decide to serve that god. I once heard a story about a preacher who said that aids is a judgement from God. At the end of a sermon a woman who was angry with the preacher, approached him and said that she didn't agree with his statement. The preacher asked, "miss, what is your proof?" The woman said angrily, "because babies die from aids and therefore aids is not the judgement of God." Just then, the preacher asked, "how many babies do you think God killed in the flood?" You see, we cannot love a God like this. It is one thing for God to be love, but when he begins to show his justice, wrath, and his sovereignty, we begin to have problems. This is the God of the Bible - He is not politically correct and his wrath is terrible as his grace is wonderful. Good men cannot love this God, because good men hate God.[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]To Be Continued...
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[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]Resumed...

Good men want God to stay in his place. They want him to be love and nothing else. Ironically, however, the version of good men's love is twisted and perverted. Their version of love is likened best to a judge who lets murderers and rapists and child predators, go free. They miss the fact that God is holy and just and he by no means will let the guilty go unpunished. They miss the fact that God's goodness requires justice and wrath be expressed. You see, if you love goodness, you will hate wickedness. This is God. Yet, man does not love light, but instead the dark. He cannot love a God of love because God is light and man's hearts are darkened. Any spark of light that men sees is offensive and must be labeled disruptive and intolerant. This is man apart from Christ, we hate God. Before we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit, the Bible calls us evil. None of us love God or have kept his commandments. None of us desired God (even though some claim they have). All of us have gone our own ways. All of us have practiced idolatry and traded the infinitely glorious worth of God for other idols. We've gone astray, caring more for men in hell than we do for God's glory. The great writer, C.S. Lewis, is known for saying that the door of hell is locked from the inside. He is right. [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] The truth of the matter is, men hate God and do not want to be with God. All men in their unregenerated state want to go to Heaven, they just don't want God to be there. In fact, if you were to open the door way to hell and say to the people there, "you can come out only if you submit to God and do his will," they would say... lock the door and go away! These are men who have desired their own way and who have done many good and wonderful deeds apart from Christ. They couldn't love God because they wouldn't love Christ and submit to him. And so, my thesis remains: Good men hate God. This is us, this is all of us, apart from Christ. We go to church on Sundays making it the biggest day of idolatry, because we sing songs and pray to a god that we have made up in our mind; a god who looks like Santa Clause and not the Almighty and Sovereign Yahweh of the Bible. And so to you, you who have been given eyes to see and a heart to believe, repent. Repent from your good works and see that apart from Christ, they are worthless and evil. We all must come to understand that God is the only being truly free - free to do whatever he pleases. Take note, however, God is a good God. In fact, he is so good, some of us wicked and evil men have been saved to show and prove once for all eternity, just how good this God is. [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] I want you to get this, so notice this now. God is Holy. His holy nature requires wrath be expressed in order that his justice may be seen. God is not obligated to love anyone or to show mercy on anyone. In fact, if God saved no one, he would be justified in doing so. The fact that you see Christ and cherish him and love him, is an act of grace; so much so that I cannot express in words. God has given you, you who hated him and were no better than Hitler in his eyes, the ability to see Christ for who he is. You now esteem him above everything - as it ought to be. You are saved by grace, and not of yourself, lest you may have reason to boast. You did not choose God, God chose you and predestined you that you would believe the gospel, whereby you may be saved. Have you not realized that others esteem the gospel to be foolishness and a stumbling block? Do you suppose yourself wiser and better than them for believing? You are not. It is by grace and not of yourself, that you understand the gospel and trust in Christ. It is by grace that you see, at least in some degree, your need for a Savior. It is by grace that you have come to understand that your good deeds apart from Christ is worthless before God. It is by Grace that you have been saved. Stand in awe and weep and worship. The man known as the "prince of preachers," Charles Spurgeon, once said the following: [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]"If you were to put a bucket of slop side by side to a plate of delicious food, which would a pig choose? The pig would choose the bucket of slop, because it is in his nature to do so. But, if you could somehow change that pig's nature and change him into a man, he would take his face out of the bucket of slop and be disgusted. He would look around and notice other pigs eating out of their buckets of slop and be embarrassed when he saw what he was." [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] This is your conversion story, Christian. You have been given eyes to see what you were and it wasn't a pig. It was worse. Something reminiscent of a ravenous dog but of the most vile and putrefying among all other creators. Praise God for his amazing grace. Learn to love God above all other things and everyone else. Understand that this is what you were created for. Realize that God is doing the most loving thing anyone can do. He who is infinitely beautiful and infinitely wonderful and infinitely awe-inspiring, and infinitely glorious, has given himself for your eternal inheritance. Therefore, Christian, you ought to strive hard after being fully satisfied in God and aim to know his excellencies over all known joys and pleasures that you my glorify God, giving him the glory and you the indescribable joys - best of both possible worlds. This is what you were created for, brothers and sisters. Saturate yourself in this truth and submerge yourself into the Bible that you may know more of God. Be for God that you may learn to love your fellow brother perfectly and glorify God. Confess your sins before God and recognize that apart from Christ, there is truly no one good, but one, and that is God. Do not be like these so-called "good" men who live imperfect lives trying to please a perfect God. They cannot. We cannot. [/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono] Praise God for coming in the flesh and living a perfect life in thoughts and deeds and died as a sacrifice offering for sin. Remember, God is holy and cannot allow guilty men to go free. God's justice requires judgement and wrath, someone had to suffer and die to satisfy that wrath. See your bleeding Savior and aim to understand, as best you can, the agony he suffered on your behalf. I am convinced that this is the only way to fight and have victory over sin. The father crushed the Son, for you who are evil. Because of Jesus, we are not like the good men of this world. Their religious figures came that they may make bad men good. Jesus came that he make make dead men live. You who were dead to God can now live. You are going to Heaven not because of anything you did, but on the merit of the only good and perfect man to ever live, Jesus the Christ.[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]To God be the Praise Forever,[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]Terrence[/FONT]
 
The problem is that we see too many Born Agains become very aggressive proselytisers, and all too often focused on punishment from God, not love.

Sermon on the Mount, anyone?
 
I said:
The problem is that we see too many Born Agains become very aggressive proselytisers, and all too often focused on punishment from God, not love.

Sermon on the Mount, anyone?
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yes i agree, and after all it is GOODNEWS that people want to hear.
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come matthew 24;14 to know that the end of all the problems in the world is going to come about is great news indeed,and it will all come about through the kingdom. matthew 6;10
Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth...........bring it on
 
I said:
The problem is that we see too many Born Agains become very aggressive proselytisers, and all too often focused on punishment from God, not love.

Sermon on the Mount, anyone?
Click to expand...

How could you appriciate love if you first dont appriciate what it took to save people? The sermon on the mount is great and awesome and lovely, not because its about love, love, love. Its all those things because the Father being holy as He is, and obliged to seek justice with wrath, crushed His Beloved Son for wicked people. Thats what makes all this actually good news. If you or anyone else, for that matter, read my blog and only saw punishment, you have yet to be saved.
 
Terrence said:
[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]Now question: Was that a good deed or a bad deed? It's sin. You may then protest and say, "he did a wonderful deed to his fellow man!" Yet, the more important question we ought to ask and almost never do is, "what about his God?"[/FONT]

And so, when you go to hospital to get treated, you get well all thanks to sin? Don't you thank God for the medical staff? Or would you rather die?
If you live true to your beliefs, you should be in complete isolation and not benefit from anything that comes out of the unbelieving world, do you?

[FONT=Courier New,Courier,mono]"how many babies do you think God killed in the flood?" You see, we cannot love a God like this. It is one thing for God to be love, but when he begins to show his justice, wrath, and his sovereignty, we begin to have problems. This is the God of the Bible - He is not politically correct and his wrath is terrible as his grace is wonderful. Good men cannot love this God, because good men hate God.[/FONT]

Fair enough, if you describe it that way, then I can see how sensible people would reject that kind of a God.
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Terrence said:
Realize that God is doing the most loving thing anyone can do. He who is infinitely beautiful and infinitely wonderful and infinitely awe-inspiring, and infinitely glorious, has given himself for your eternal inheritance.

AND

Remember, God is holy and cannot allow guilty men to go free. God's justice requires judgement and wrath, someone had to suffer and die to satisfy that wrath.

I see a contradiction here about the nature of God, don't you?
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Yesterday I was finding out about the history of sufism in wiki, and I came across this little story about a woman called Rabia:


One day, she was seen running through the streets of Basra carrying a torch in one hand and a bucket of water in the other. When asked what she was doing, she said:
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God.


This is a very different kind of love that this woman is talking about.
 
I said:
The problem is that we see too many Born Agains become very aggressive proselytisers, and all too often focused on punishment from God, not love.
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Brian, just remind me please: why did I bother reading the code of conduct?
Or is this entusiasm rather than ..."a personal soapbox for people to attack other religious viewpoints." :rolleyes:


Snoopy.
 
So, what makes God any different from a normal person with infinite power, knowledge, etc? Why even side with a person like this if He's going to be like that? Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n as they say.

Also, has it occurred to you that perhaps your conception of God may be the idol? I am not saying it is, but why don't you think it is?
 
I'd like to talk with each and every one of you guys about this, but I'm sure I might be booted from this site soon. Before I leave though, its important for me to tell you that you need to stop surpressing the truth of God and repent and trust in Jesus that you may be saved. Nothing I was harsh or mean, but you are angry because it is truth.
 
Namaste Terrence,

I think it is an issue of perception. The writers of the early books of the bible were explaining things the best they could. And in order to satisfy the masses they explained a vengeful G-d, ie built G-d in our image, a mistake often made today. It allowed them a way to encourage others to be better people, it is those sins that are causing our crops to fail. Keep the nose to grindstone, take care of your people, worship G-d and all will be well.

As times changed, the writers changed perception, the stories changed and G-d wasn't as vengeful...

We've spoke of judging and it is not mine or yours to decide the fate of others, but to work on and improve ourselves.

Keep growing and learning in faith, you will benefit by keeping your eyes open to the world, as we all do.
 
wil said:
Namaste Terrence,

I think it is an issue of perception. The writers of the early books of the bible were explaining things the best they could. And in order to satisfy the masses they explained a vengeful G-d, ie built G-d in our image, a mistake often made today. It allowed them a way to encourage others to be better people, it is those sins that are causing our crops to fail. Keep the nose to grindstone, take care of your people, worship G-d and all will be well.

As times changed, the writers changed perception, the stories changed and G-d wasn't as vengeful...

We've spoke of judging and it is not mine or yours to decide the fate of others, but to work on and improve ourselves.

Keep growing and learning in faith, you will benefit by keeping your eyes open to the world, as we all do.
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Lets really think about what you're saying. Think about Jesus and how he said that no man can take his life but he give it willingly in order to satisfy God's wrath. Think about Jesus' words and how he spoke 2times as much about hell than he did of heaven. Think about how he taught not to fear man who can kill you and after that have no power, but to fear God who can kill you then destroy you in hell. Then, after thinking about all of that, think about his unspeakable agony that he suffered on the cross. It wasnt the nails in his hands and feet that was the most pain. It was the Father crushing the Son because the Son had taken on the sins of the world. Think about all of that and tell me you still believe what you wrote. I doubt you could.
 
Amazingly its the fear of God that leads many to the "born again" status.. The bible even says that fear of the Lord produces wisdom.. Ironically... The most thing God commanded of His children is to fear not... of this world or the things of the world. The english word fear is in the NKJV bible 354 times Its either saying Fear the Lord.. or Fear not because the Lord is with you. The bible also says that the commandments are given to us as the perfect means to bring a soul to Christ.

Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;

The law condemns us which should certainly produce fear of God! The awesome thing you may not be seeing is Terrance saying that by the grace of God we have mercy and forgiveness through the blood of Jesus Christ.

If anyone would try this and perhaps understand where people like Terrance (and myself once upon a time) come from in thier witnessing go to a bible site like Crosswalk.. choose a version and type the word "Fear" and read all the verses.. Its not a bad word.. when its a holy righteous fear of a Holy Righteous God... I see where Terrance is coming from because I have done studies on this.. Its a beautiful thing.

Ive watched people come and go on this site... because they believe strongly in the Fear of God and when they talk about that fear it gets twisted to where they seem judgemental and aggressive.. but that is how they came to God and have not gained the spiritual maturity yet to let the Lord harvest what seeds have been sown.. Fear of the Lord won Terrance to Christ...He is in love with Christ and wants to share his experience with everyone because he knows God desires that ALL come to Him.. and what we are seeing is Terrances.. works as a product of his faith.. I dont want Terrance to go.. I havent wanted any of our baby evangelicals to leave.. and they keep getting chased off :(
 
Faithfulservant said:
Amazingly its the fear of God that leads many to the "born again" status.. The bible even says that fear of the Lord produces wisdom.. Ironically... The most thing God commanded of His children is to fear not... of this world or the things of the world. The english word fear is in the NKJV bible 354 times Its either saying Fear the Lord.. or Fear not because the Lord is with you. The bible also says that the commandments are given to us as the perfect means to bring a soul to Christ.

Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;

The law condemns us which should certainly produce fear of God! The awesome thing you may not be seeing is Terrance saying that by the grace of God we have mercy and forgiveness through the blood of Jesus Christ.

If anyone would try this and perhaps understand where people like Terrance (and myself once upon a time) come from in thier witnessing go to a bible site like Crosswalk.. choose a version and type the word "Fear" and read all the verses.. Its not a bad word.. when its a holy righteous fear of a Holy Righteous God... I see where Terrance is coming from because I have done studies on this.. Its a beautiful thing.

Ive watched people come and go on this site... because they believe strongly in the Fear of God and when they talk about that fear it gets twisted to where they seem judgemental and aggressive.. but that is how they came to God and have not gained the spiritual maturity yet to let the Lord harvest what seeds have been sown.. Fear of the Lord won Terrance to Christ...He is in love with Christ and wants to share his experience with everyone because he knows God desires that ALL come to Him.. and what we are seeing is Terrances.. works as a product of his faith.. I dont want Terrance to go.. I havent wanted any of our baby evangelicals to leave.. and they keep getting chased off :(
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Hey bro, I just wanted to correct something. It surely was not the fear of God that converted me, but God's love. It blew me away because I saw how Holy God is and rather than dealing with me as He should, he showed grace. I was a tear filled convert and not a fear filled one. I assure you, fear would not have bought me to God, but agian, His grace did. All that said however, it was during my studying and maturing did I come to know more about God's character and I've learned that His wrath is as horrible as His love is awesome. The only 2 attributes profitable to God are Love and Wrath, Ive learned that. And, it is because of learning more about His holiness and wrath that I can understand and appriciate Grace, you know? I am convinced, until a man sees himself as God sees him apart from Christ, He cannot be saved.

In Jesus!
 
Faithfulservant said:
.... The english word fear is in the NKJV bible 354 times Its either saying Fear the Lord.. or Fear not because the Lord is with you. ... choose a version and type the word "Fear" and read all the verses.. Its not a bad word.. when its a holy righteous fear of a Holy Righteous God... .. I dont want Terrance to go.. I havent wanted any of our baby evangelicals to leave.. and they keep getting chased off :(
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I don't believe anyone is chasing anyone off. I am suggesting that he puts down the 2x4 and discusses concepts. It is my understanding from my Jewish friends that the word that is often (not always) translated as fear is actually closer to meaning respect and reverence. I don't fear G-d, but have much respect and reverence for the power. I don't fear an automobile, or a rifle, as I do not regularly put myself in a position where it is pointed at me and can do me harm.

I was not referring to what man has done to the bible in translating or interpretting, but what man's reasons were for authoring the various books of the bible....and then later deemed those books scripture and compiled them.

Terrence I'll have to look into your double the hell references and discover where G-d crushed his Son....any assistance on scriptural references/verification of your claims from you would be appreciated. But I have no issues with my words. I find it interesting that you feel their exist various Jesuses, various Christs, and various G-ds that folks believe in...
 
wil said:
I don't believe anyone is chasing anyone off. I am suggesting that he puts down the 2x4 and discusses concepts. It is my understanding from my Jewish friends that the word that is often (not always) translated as fear is actually closer to meaning respect and reverence. I don't fear G-d, but have much respect and reverence for the power. I don't fear an automobile, or a rifle, as I do not regularly put myself in a position where it is pointed at me and can do me harm.

I was not referring to what man has done to the bible in translating or interpretting, but what man's reasons were for authoring the various books of the bible....and then later deemed those books scripture and compiled them.

Terrence I'll have to look into your double the hell references and discover where G-d crushed his Son....any assistance on scriptural
references/verification of your claims from you would be appreciated. But I have no issues with my words. I find it interesting that you feel their exist various Jesuses, various Christs, and various G-ds that folks believe in...
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hmm

Maybe you should do a word study yourself instead of taking someones word for it.. I find the best way is to learn for myself.. Crosswalk has a really good KJV lexicon. I was going to post numbers etc... but its pointless if you are satisfied with your dillusions then that is your choice.... it is still a beautiful study of Gods glory.

Terrence is not alone in his belief about idol worshipping... in my opinion there are quite a few idol worshippers that post here. They certainly arent worshipping the same God that I am.

And according to scripture The Father had foresaken Jesus Christ... removing Himself from the constant presence of one would certainly crush Him. You are just trifling by picking at anything and everything Terrance is saying.
 
Well you see, Faithful, I think it comes down to rendering. If we look at the presentation that has come to be accepted, we have:
“Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani?
​
And this translation certainly leads us to think, "My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me?"

Yet another rendering of the Greek, from the original Hebrew, will show us that even a single word, given a slightly different emphasis - in the translation, in the rendering, mind you - will yield:
"Eli, Eli, lamah azabvtha-ni?"
​
And now we see a knowing Jesus, well aware of the plans, the intentions, and the Presence of the Father, praising Him with the utterance:
My God, My God, how thou dost glorify me!
​
Both renderings can be shown to have significance. But what was God more likely to have done - abandoned (forsaken) - His "only begotten Son" ... or glorified Him?

In this case, I DO think the logical answer is the one that applies. And the shortcoming, which I find with the human touch, the translation that has come to be preferred ... in no reflects negatively upon either Christ, or His Father in Heaven.

Which is it that is perfect, Human translation, or the Person, Presence, and utterances of the Father and the Father's Son?

I would say - that while the answer to this question isn't up for debate - the matter of translation, is.

Unless we just want an Amen corner.


Q, who is the resident scholar, may want to consider:
Hλι Hλι λαμα .σαβαχθανι

glorify.gif

​
Questioning ...

andrew/taijasi
 

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Matthew 23:8-12 But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

I have one Father and one Teacher.. Everyone else is clueless..

I'll take that one into the "Amen Corner" whatever that means. :)

1cor 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness";

 
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