what about l ray smith

I would say that this will not be received too well here by certain people. I, personally, do not believe he is far off-base too much at all.
 
Some of his ideas sound Calvinistic (i.e. predestination). But the important thing about Hell, whether literal or spiritual, is the idea of separation from God by our own accord.
 
Dor said:
Way off. Creepy crawls. Holy Spirit hitting me with 2x4 saying run away.
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why?

what did you read?

holy spirit doesnt like reading much eh?
 
Like I said shadowman, some people will not agree. There's nothing wrong with that or anything, and Ray is still technically Christian. I think the fact that he backs each of his points up with Scripture also helps his credibility. Like I said before, I rejected his stuff at first, but later a lot of it made sense. You just have to remember the 3 stages that truth goes through.
 
I've read some of his "hell" series, and he seems to give very reasonable arguments to back his point. His ideas are interesting.

His argument is like this: everybody dies, the difference is that only God's people will be resurrected when the time comes. Those who don't belong to God will never resurrect, they will basically cease to exist for ever. No punishing hellfire though.

If you don't like what he says, well, prove him wrong!:p
 
But if it doesn't contradict itself, then any passage should be able to stand alone. Context does help in some cases, I suppose.

Does he say that there is no hellfire? Because I thought, and I read these so far abck I can't remember, that he was just saying hellfire was not eternal or that the state of Hell was only for an age rather than eternity. I say if you denounce everything else as heresy there, the least thing to consider is the Scriptural-ness of eternal and ages.
 
moseslmpg said:
But if it doesn't contradict itself, then any passage should be able to stand alone. Context does help in some cases, I suppose.

Does he say that there is no hellfire? Because I thought, and I read these so far abck I can't remember, that he was just saying hellfire was not eternal or that the state of Hell was only for an age rather than eternity. I say if you denounce everything else as heresy there, the least thing to consider is the Scriptural-ness of eternal and ages.
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One of the problems is that the Bible is used to make a specific point, so the tendency is to misinterpret scripture in order to make it fit a particular ideal. When that happens the only real accurate way to deal with a potentially false issue, is to use scripture to back up or refute another person's perception of scripture.

Mr. Smith's basic belief is very similar to an even older belief, developed by Arius of Alexandria circa 325, who contended that Jesus did not pre-exist from all eternity nor was He of the same substance of God the Father. Arius got his idea from Lucian of Antioch, who got it from Origen. Subsequently Arius was ex-communicated from the church. However his nontrinitarian views lead him to be the Christological father of quite a few modern day groups, including:


* Independent affiliates of the Unitarian Universalist Association
 
Dor said:
Pick up the bible and read it.....all of it not just random verses here and there.
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Thats such an awesome point.. Does anyone ever just read the bible as a complete work?? From beginning to end to see the beginning of the universe to the end as we know it?? Its awesome.. God is awesome.
 
yeah its interesting. im not trying to disporve anytihng, but what about sceince? and psychology? are these non existant entities?
 
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