Dragons everywhere you look!

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by juantoo3, Oct 23, 2006.

  1. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    They say there must have been a higher concentration of Oxygen in the air to support the bigger bodies -- especially large insects because they don't breath. Maybe they're wrong though. This old dragonfly must have had a wingspan of 1.5 meters or more, so perhaps it could have absorbed extra oxygen through the extra surface area of its wings. I don't know about the turtle. Perhaps it just moved very slowly so as not to faint. Perhaps the dino's had some super gas & temperature exchange abilities, or maybe an oil-cooled dino heavy towing package. Another possibility is that they cut down on their need for oxygen by holding their breath and simultaneously cooling themselves with the gas expansion of continuous methane backfirings.
     
  2. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    oil-cooled dino heavy towing package...ROTFLMAO!

    Probably not the absolute best choice for "evidence," but there is an intriguing discovery at the Creation Evidence Museum in Glen Rose Texas that hints pretty strongly at a different atmosphere. They show pictures of what they say is a hammer encrusted with stone, but that the metal could not be smelted in our current atmosphere...I want to say it was something about chlorine content within the metal. Anyway, they went on to create a contained unit with what they speculated was this ancient atmosphere, and I forget what they raised but it did pretty good. One thing I remember is that they said the sky would be a reddish-pinkish-orangish instead of blue because of the chemical composition.
     
  3. Dharmaatmaa

    Dharmaatmaa New Member

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    Well, it's difficult to say if Oxygen had necesserily to play its role here. Contemporary phisiology already clearly proved every creature needs not too much Oxygen to sigh. Humans need something about 24% Oxygen in the air to get healthy long life. Other animals need Oxygen almost such concentration... Of cause, climate do change, atmosphere changes. There is no anything not changing here at all! But if we say phisical laws are steady we must proceed meaning that till the very end. In Russia, we say: "If you've said 'A', then say and 'B'". Phisical laws don't change in time, do they? So, there took place a number of experiments in Antarctica. If I remember correctly, it was Russian phisician Kapitsa who presented those experiments at an International Meeting of scientists. He asserted that consistention of atmosphere did not very much change last several thousands of years. And obviously "they're wrong though", as you said.
    And who a hell had said insects do not breath. I'd advise to catch a fly and close it in a glass tin. How long will it stay alive that "unbreathing" poor fly?!

    Why slowly? That turtle must've had rather long members of body to move slowly. I just had a turtle at home six years ago. If it lies under the sunshine enough, it can run faster, than several our modern scientists can think! :) I don't know about the turtle, too.

    Oh, I know it's not your own opinion, but please don't tell me about "super gases". Do the scientists really say it seriously!? I don't believe it! Although the "package" looks like truth. But in this case we must have agreed evolution takes much more time than it usually is thought. Revolutionary transformations in phisiology of creatures takes too much time. And we know animals of past are to be relatives to those of future, they're progenitors. And how could that 60 mln. years is fit to such magical changings! But if I'm not mistaken the carbon analysis don't let time to be rubber, does it?

    "Another possibility is" just one more phantastical theory... Animals would acclimatise any atmosphere ever be! Even Ch. Darwin repeated that till death. He called it adaptability of species. And methane's just a news for world of developed creatures.

    Yes, and animals could live on and on even in acid atmosphere. I'm not sure if it's connected with their height and mass. Even today there live enormous animals, both mammalia and reptyles. Look at elephants, crocodyles, cetus and so on! Is our air rich with "chlorine"? It isn't. That hammer was just accidentally chlorined, it seems.

    I heard of it. Buddhist lamas assert on the fact of another colour of the sky in deep past. But if I didn't forget they ground this on their theory. It says Earth Poles go up and down from time to time. And earlier the North Pole was situated in Himalayas, and in future it'll change its position. I have no time to describe the Poles' teaching but I must confess it's much closer connected with logic that all the hypoteses to be meantioned above. And modern science partially agreed Poles change. Our scientists have very many things to hammer away at. They'll never be unemployed I guess.
     
  4. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    The rock melted around the hammer is interesting and reminds me of melted rocks found high up on mountains in S America that no one can figure out how they were melted. I believe the theory Juantoo mentioned is not about Chlorine but Peroxide created by the activity of much larger amounts of ozone in the atmosphere created by cosmic bombardment of a water canopy. Theory goes that the world is very ill compared to what it once was and lifespans are shorter as a result.

    On another timescale: the richer oxygen content I mentioned actually is just one of the theories of a time millions of years ago when there was supposed to be less carbon in the air and more dinosaurs walking around and lots more alge making more oxygen in the sea. Anyway, the super gas-temp exchange thing is my own idea. That doesn't make it any less valid as I'm the Proctor of the Nternational Institutes of Truth Wisdom Insight & Terminology (NITWIT), an official representative. My suggestion is that the internal organs were kept cooler than the heavy muscles, allowing the larger animals to run without overheating. The super gases is also my idea. Another possibility is that dragons had an endothermic fermentation process to cool their inner organs. Can't talk anymore -- I'm due to lecture on Zoology at an official NITWIT seminar in 10 minutes.
     
  5. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    I guess I just hadn't appreciated your humor before now, Dream! Funny!

    It well could have been peroxide instead of chlorine, I really don't remember and am being lazy not to look it up. The last time I referenced the Creation Evidence Museum I drew a lot of flak, seems the honcho has a few issues that call a lot of their stuff into question. About the hammer though, I have seen no rebuttal from "authorized" sources, so it seems to still be a valid curiousity.

    I am thinking that an over abundant supply of oxygen though would tend to speed a lot of "oxidizing" processes, including aging. Not saying necessarily that you are incorrect, but that if oxygen were increased it would lead to a premature aging process measured as we do now. There is also the consideration that at some point with an increase in oxygen there becomes a greater potential for the atmosphere to literally catch fire. If we had a "pure" oxygen atmosphere, we could not have fire, any bolt of lightning or volcanic eruption could set the sky aflame. So I'm kinda with Dharmaatmaa on that bit.

    Here's a link to the hammer:
    http://75.125.60.6/~creatio1/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26

    Turns out it is chlorine...my memory isn't failing me as bad as I thought...yet. ;)
     
  6. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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  7. Dharmaatmaa

    Dharmaatmaa New Member

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    No cats! I've found more interesting things at

    R.o.t.N. - Discoveries of Giant Bones of the Antediluvian Hybrids of Fallen Angels and Women

    It directly relates to our discussion. And I have heard of such things before from Russian gazettes. One of the skeletons was founded in Penjab, India at Dec, 2007.

    But it's modern. Ancient writers wrote a great deal of things of giants. Bible says of giants, Ramayana says of giants. Strange... I start believing. But it's so unusual, although we can't know that isn't so.
     
  8. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Of course they found evidence for even bigger nephilum on Mars. The footprints below are believed to be from a mother and child. The mother would have stood at least 120km tall and the child over 45km tall. This explains Mars' barren surface. The nephilum there ate everything and then themselves leaving the dry and lifeless planet we see today. Of course since nephilum were godless creatures she had no compunction about eating her child. The favoured theory is she did so in a hotdog bun.
     

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  9. Dharmaatmaa

    Dharmaatmaa New Member

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    Ha-ha-ha! You've never lost your nice humour, Tao. Ancient nephilim (not nephilum!) would die when laughing! :)

    I'm not insist on the reality of nephilim. And I can't say if I'm sure of them, but archaeology says, ancient Scriptures say, ancient authors (e.g. Tertullianus) said.

    But to speak of Mars! It's too much. Aren't you from Mars, dear Tao?
     
  10. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    As in: Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus?

    Whether Tao is from Mars is still under consideration around here...nobody is brave enough to look under the wool skirt to find out. :D
     
  11. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    ..................:cool:
     
  12. Dharmaatmaa

    Dharmaatmaa New Member

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    By the way, if I'm not mistaken in China they call dragons so-called "big people out from Himalayas". But not in sense of giants, only big with intellectual power. They call them Dragons of Wisdom.

    It makes me remind that Snake from Eden. He promised Eva that she with Adam will become wise having eaten that apple. It looks like a "Dragon gifting Wisdom".
     
  13. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    That original serpent was and is full of lies , and those who listen to him will see that they were decieved


    In Revelation 12:9 it is written: "So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."


    Yes, "the serpent" involved in Eden was none other than the wicked spirit creature known as Satan the Devil.

    Not only did that symbolic serpent come to have angels in heaven but he has had a "seed" down here on earth, a "seed" that in due time will be crushed out of existence with him.



    Confirming this identification of the Devil as being "the serpent" behind the downfall of our original parents, Jesus Christ said to Jewish religious leaders in the first century: "You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth . . . When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie." (John 8:44)

    Jesus also called those religious opposers "offspring of vipers."—Matthew 12:34; 23:33.
     
  14. Dharmaatmaa

    Dharmaatmaa New Member

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    I am not going to discuss with many words the Devil theme. I have no opportunity to express all that I'd love to about this theme here. You prove, please:

    1) who told you that Snake meant Satan? It wasn't called so in that place.
    2) how can it be shown that "That original serpent was and is full of lies"? It's a superstition.
    3) Isaiah says he was a child of God and so on... he even stands before God with other angels at Isaiah. What does it mean?

    I only know almost every religion, every nation, all Asia look at "serpents" like at Wise creatures (usually Dragons), except Christians.



    If I truely remember, Jesus also had said "Be wise as Snakes!" in another place of Scripture. How do you think, dear Mee? I think it means the "serpent" word is used in different contexts - both 'good' and 'bad'.

    Diabolos wasn't called Snake (or Viper) in this quote. What does it prove?

    And the devil of christians is phantastic theme. It can't belong to the Dragons of Wisdom in China, I guess.​
     
  15. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    "And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."—Rev. 20:2.

    So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
    rev 12;9
     
  16. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, YOUR minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ. 2 corinthians 11;3

    At this the serpent said to the woman: "YOU positively will not die.
    Genesis 3;4


    he is a lier

    He who carries on sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from [the] beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the Devil. 1 john 3;8



    satan began his rebellion against God ,and it was the beginning of bad things


    and Jesus when speaking to the religious leaders in his day said


    you are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. JOHN 8;44



    they were not into truth, the same way satan wasnt, he did not stand fast to the truth , and religious leaders in Jesus day did the same



     
  17. Dharmaatmaa

    Dharmaatmaa New Member

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    The Devil said "If you eat the apple you shall not die". So he said truth. She didn't die as I remember. And it occurs "he is" not "a lier".

    "Satan began his rebellion against God ,and it was the beginning of bad things" you say. Here, I'm both agree and disagree. If we look at Satan's ethimology we shall definitely see that it isn't a personal name. "Satana" is everything being against something. Day is "satana" of a night and so on.

    The Devil wasn't meantioned when I had spoken of the Dragons of Wisdom. Not being a Christian, I can't afford theological fighting here.

    Why Isaiah said what he said? Why Devil, 'satana', stands before the God?! What does it mean? It means that Bible wasn't correctly understood by clericals. It all is an allegory I think.

    And who, our beloved God was a father of Devil!? Who created him?

    I want to answer myself. Devil's just the second part of God, dark side of the Moon. We could never say what is black if we didn't see white. The are brothers - Jah-hevah and Satan.

    But I don't want to make the discussion of mythological Dragons become a narrow theological argue.
     
  18. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    when eve eat the fruit mankind started to die, before eating the fruit she did not have to die . she could have lived forever , it was only after eating the fruit that humans started to die so satan lied to eve .



    That is why, just as through one man (Adam)sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned—. romans 5;12
     
  19. dan b

    dan b Interfaith Forums

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    In the Bible there are three adversaries. The Serpent, the Beast and the False Prophet. The Serpent, Dragon, Devil, Satan are all the same one. It means the "survival of the fittest attitude in people." The Beast means the Law of Justice inverted or (bad law). The False Prophet today is false profit, bad capitalism.
    So When the serpent was in the gaden with Eve he lied. Thats because in survival of the fittest you lie , steal, cheat and even kill. In the Beasts domain you don't lie, steal or kill. In the Beast's domain you legaly cheat . Just as we in the first world today have "legaly cheated the 3d world out of their inheritance. The False Prophet is even worse!
    Today the earth(Eurasia) is divided into 3 parts. Hindu-Buddhist Asia is the Serpent kingdom. There it is a survival of the fittest system and will continue thus. In Islam it's the beast. They have a strict law of justice. But is it good there? We in the western Christian countries have the False Prophet and make false profit by tricking the rest of the world with our capitalism. But Capitalism is acctually the Serpents domain. So it's out of here with it very soon. That was what the so called"banking problems" that we just had were about. dan b
     
  20. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Hinduism is the serpeant and Islam is the beast?

    You do realize this is an interfaith site?
     

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