cognate deity names

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by Alvis Rofhessa, Nov 23, 2006.

  1. Alvis Rofhessa

    Alvis Rofhessa New Member

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    (I didn't know whether to put this under mythology or comparative studies, I guess it is more in this sub-forum area.)

    My thesis is that the names of gods all around the world are/can be related. Everyone I have mentioned this to has attacked me, and said it is not true and can't be done. Although I have a long way still to go, I have neverthless made many amazing discoveries despite everyones adamant insistence/assertations.

    This thread/topic is intended to be both (A.) for me to submit/share my discoveries and/or possible "discoveries" to you, and/but also (B.) for you to post your own theories/thoughts/feelings/ideas/info/data/criticism/etc (whether your own, or ones you have read/heared from other peoples books/etc).

    Though I would prefer this thread/topic to be mainly about possible name (cognate) correspondences, some digression into/on synonymous natures or common/similar themes would also be interesting as long as it doesn't push out the intended original purpose/focus of connecting names.

    (Please note that each future post/entry of my own will take time for me to get around to doing, sometimes long time, sometimes short. And remember some will be definately correct, and/but some will/may be wrong as this is a new pioneeering trial and error field, and I am not fully informed/educated/conversant with the full scope of extant knowledge in the currently reached level of orthodox linguistics/philology.)

    Name connections can turn out to provide a lot of new light on hitherto not well-understood mythological details, eg see Sedna in coming post.
    Many other implications in various fields arise, such as for example proof of contacts between Americas and Old World across Atlantic.

    Coming planned posts of my own will probably be the ones on Sin, Enlil, and Ea.

    Here is a starter on a particular culture/people/pantheon rather than on a particular deity's worldwide cognates:

    Tupi-Guarani deities:

    Guaracy 'sun'......................~ Semitic............Heres/Keret 'sun/gold' (C Berlitz.)
    Jacy 'moon'........................ ~ Hamitic............Yah 'moon'/Ea.
    Ir-in Mage 'magic/deluge/rain' ~ Sumer-Akkadia..En-lil 'wind'.
    Toru-shompek 'sun'...............~ Akkadian..........Shamash 'sun'.
    Peruda 'generation'............... ~ Indo-Europea...Freyr/Peruwa.
     
  2. Alvis Rofhessa

    Alvis Rofhessa New Member

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    #1. Sin worldwide cognates (few poss wrong):

    Sin/Sinne (Akkadian) 'moon'.
    Sina/Hina/Ina (Polynesian) 'moon' (RA Lochore, E Sykes).
    Si (Chimu Indian) 'moon' (Z Sitchin, Fitzgerald-Lee).
    Singala (Arab).
    Chia (Muyscaya Indian) 'moon' [otherwise could be Hea/Ea?]
    Ya'china'ut (Koryak) 'moon'.
    Sedna (Eskimo) 'sea, one-eyed' [moon ~ sea via tides, tidal-bulge, cresent/boat, lake/mirror. For possible -d- infix compare eg Raudna/Rauni?] (Larouse seemingly possibly hints that this correspondence is poss already secretly known?)
    Zin (Songhay) 'water', though Zin is thought to be from Arab Djin.
    Tin(ia) (Etruscan) 'sky, fire, lightning, birth' [birth waters].
    Cinteotl (Aztec) 'night, 4' [though prob not related, being more likely = Ki as maize deity].
    ?Sia (Egyptian) 'perception, hand, papyrus, intellect, travels, barque' [eye/moon, moon connect with wisdom via calendar/measure/maths, night travellers]?

    A few other less likely/unfinished possibilities left out.
    Sin & cognates may possibly be cognate with Selene & cognates with l/n interchange as in Hebrew and Celt (etc)?, but I will give Selene as a separate (cross-referenced) future entry. If Sin and Selene are same then that would possibly give 2 branches of diffusion!
     
  3. Alvis Rofhessa

    Alvis Rofhessa New Member

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    My apologies to anyone who may have already seen some of my deity name connections on my older threads on Skadi forum and Simaqianstudio history forum.

    # 2. Enlil world wide cognates (some may be wrong):

    El-lil/En-lil/Ill-in-us/Nin-lil/Mul-lil (Sumer-Akkad) 'mtn, storm, wild ox, wind, air, axe' [alt/also read/rendered In-Sakh].
    An-ila (India) 'wind' [Greek word anima].
    Fei Li-en (Chinese) 'wind, direction'.
    Ton-en-ili (Navaho) 'rain, celestial, skies, 4 card pts, storm clouds, blue, fox, rainbows' [and see Donar/Danu].
    Lilu (Berber) 'rainwater'.
    El-lel (Hittite/Hurrian) [cp Alalus?]
    Olila (Ghana) 'Buadza, storm, wind'.
    Ir-in Mage (Tupi-Guarani) 'magic, rain, deluge'.
    Lil-uri (Syria) 'mtn, weather, bull' [or prob more likely is Ilwer/Wer/Mer].
    Ilmatar 'air, heroine' or Ilmar-inen/Inmar 'hero, hill, smith, young, sky, weather, stars, travellers' (Finn/Votyak) [Ilmarinen alt/also resembles Ilwer/Wer/Mer?]
    Iris (Greek) 'rainbow, wings' [tho cp Egyptian word i-r 'eye'?]
    I'lena (Koryak) 'rain, spirit'.
    Hi'lina (Haida) 'thunder, wings, ltning, clouds, cloak'.
    Painal (Aztec) 'hasty, war' [or see Paean/Pavana].
    Ir-min (German) 'war, hero, grove'.
    Igalilik (Eskimo) 'hunting, spirit, travels, icy wastes' [tho Igaluk (igloo?) more resembles Ea, Glaucus or Galatea?]
    Ilat (East Africa) 'rain'.
    Hila (Eskimo) 'air' [tho primary spelling Sila(p inua) would seem to disproove this].
    Ilyapa (Peru) 'weather, thunder, firearms'.
    Ilya (Slav) 'prophet, merged with Perun' [said to be Elijah or Helios].
    Iraj (Iran) [tho see Ares].
     
  4. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    Alvis Rofhessa:

    Just to let you know that there's at least one soul out here that appreciates your hard work on this. I have always held that if we go far enough back into the past through the analysis of linkages among languages, religious ritual, and genetic heritage we'll eventually find significant common ground and crossovers we could never have imagined. But then there are some who do not seek any knowledge of any of that. What a shame.... thank you.

    flow....:)
     
  5. Alvis Rofhessa

    Alvis Rofhessa New Member

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    Thank-you flow(person), makes a change from all the negative/de-constructive criticism I've had in last 12 months! Tho I would like to also actually have people discuss possibile correspondences too.

    (Yes I believe/have evidence that all religions d/evolved from one common original, but since myth and bible are about a dualistic conflict between 2 lines thruout whole of history/time (eg Horus vs Set), that means that the religion/[politics] of the future will not quite reconcile all of humanity/world, there will be 2 sides (In and Out), and it looks like the (western) world religion is going to be at odds with Judaeo-Xtianity.)

    Note about entry on Sin:
    It is said that Sin/shin/Sinne is from Su-en which is said to equate with En-zu (tho Zi-ana may be more/less likely possibility?) I was of the opinion that Sin and Enzu were to be treated as separate entries, but since I treated En-lil and its reverse Ill-in-us as interchangeable perhaps Sin and Enzu are a little more likely to also be closely related?

    All I have on Enzu so far is:
    Sumer-Akkad Enzu ~ Egyptian Kh-ensu, and perhaps Indian Indu??? (tho said to be short for Sindhu).
     
  6. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Kindest Regards, Alvis Rofhessa, and welcome to CR!

    I am sorry to hear of the troubles you are having in your scholarly quest, but this subject is not universally frowned upon. I would like to recommend a couple of books that may be of great assistance in your search. One from the states dated to 1865 from a pamphlet written in 1859 by Rev. Alexander Hislop is titled "The Two Babylons." A second British book by Sir (?) Frazer (possibly Frazier) titled "The Golden Bough" from around 1880 is another very good scholarly resource that extensively covers the ground you are looking over. Both have different agendas and draw different conclusions, but both are extensively researched. A more modern scholar that may appeal to you on this issue is Joseph Campbell, he has written a number of books I would like to read one day myself.

    There is a long time contributor here, "No God No Masters", who has posted quite a few posts that cover some of these things. If you know how to look up a person by their "name" here, and then look under the posts they have written, it should make your search a lot easier.

    Best of wishes, and good luck in your search!
     
  7. Alvis Rofhessa

    Alvis Rofhessa New Member

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    Thanks Juantoo3.

    re "not universally frowned upon": sure there are a certain amount of writers/scholars who have written on comparative mythology, but when it comes to my thesis of world-wide deity names (conate) correspondences the extant literature is pretty small/limited, even just Indo-European as a whole is not very much.

    I have Hislop's 2 Babylons. Although it has some good/useful info in it, it is not really that extensive in terms of world wide deity names corrsepondences, and he wrongly translates names using Hebrew words. Although the theory that Hebrew was the original world language may poss be true, it is not so straight forward interpreting names straight from Hebrew/Chaldee words. Tho ultimately the names of gods do correspond to biblical persons eg Rimmon/Ramman/Rimac (rain) = Lamech (lament)?(Winckie Pratney, RA Anderson, and JT Chick have good summaries tho I no longer have Chick's publications.)

    I have the abridged version of Frazer's Golden Bough, but again while it has some useful thematic/nature/attribute correspondences it doesn't have many name correspondences excepting "Janus/Dianus"/etc & "Jana/Diana/Juno"/etc.

    There is a writer John (or Derek) Jewell who put out some publications that have some good correspondences esp on Tiwaz/Zeus.

    LA Waddell's British Edda and Makers of Civilisation have quite a few unique correspondences of Greek, Norse, Sumerian, Indian, biblical, Celt and Egyptian deities, tho some are wrong, and still far short of any universal scheme.

    Frazer, Jewell and Waddell all have different Tiwaz/Zeus derivations/correspondences!

    A good reference book is Gerald Massey, A Book of Beginnings, tho I only have one volume.

    Georges Dumezil and Bruce Lincoln have some good name and nature correspondences but he doesn't have much more than within restrictive confines of conventional IE linguistics, some of which are wrong.

    Joseph Campbell from what I remember has some good/useful nature/theme correspondences but not name ones?, but unfortunately I/local library don't have his Oriental &/or Occidental Mythology.

    An author I *really* liked was GW Cox, Mythology of the Aryan Nations, which really did have a lot of Indo-European cognates, but unfortunately I don't have copy of book, & my notes were destroyed, and library (not local one) got rid of all their old books or put them in stack.

    Grimm (& Bulfinch, & Max Muller?) have quite a few Germanic/I-E connections but unfortunately I don't have their books (and what notes I had were destroyed in crisis 2 yrs ago.)

    An author I would *really* like to get is Idries Shah.

    Another author I'd *really* like to get is Cohane's The Key.

    Barbara Walker's Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets is a very good reference/source, but a bit chaotic/limited/unreliable.

    ----

    # 3. Yamm world-wide cognates (couple poss wrong):

    Yam/Yamm (Egypt/Syria/Babylon) 'ocean/sea'.
    Ymi-r (Norse) 'frost, deluge, ship, sailing'.
    Yima (Iran) 'flood'.
    Yam (Arab) 'Noah's son'.
    Amm (s Arab) 'moon, weather, lightning'.
    Immap Ukua (Eskimo) 'sea'.
    Dais-Imid (N Amerind) 'shell' [cp Maya imix "water"].
    Yamuna (India) 'river, blue'.
    Yemaja (Yoruba) 'water, lake, river' [tho as Yemanja see Mani?]
    Inkanyamba (Zulu) 'storms, water, tornado'.
    Nammu (Sumer-Akkad) 'watery, birth, riverbed, clay'.
    Im (Mesopotamia) 'storm' [storms at sea, deluge = storm, rain/storm].
    ?Tiamat?
    Almo (Italic) 'river'.
    Iamos (Greek) 'Poseidon his grandfather, purple, river, sea'.
    Amphi-trite (Greek) 'sea, ....'
    Palaemon (Greek) 'sea'.
    Asherat-ian (Ugarit) 'sea'.
    Amimitl (Aztec) 'lakes, fish hunters'.
     
  8. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Kindest Regards, Alvis!
    I seriously question whether we are discussing the same book. It is apparent you are more familiar with the topic at hand than I, however, Hislop was (is) my indoctrination into this subject, and his work *extensively* corresponds *world wide* deity names. Further, his translation of hebrew words is relatively small in comparison with the total content of his book. Whether there are more authoratative authors on the subject I admit to not knowing, but Hislop, considering the day and age in which he wrote, is quite extensive.

    I seriously do not recall Hislop making this direct statement of Hebrew being the basis of language. I do know this is a common presumption among some, be that as it may, a group of us here made a quest of our own to research that very issue some time back in a thread about the origin of languages. While Hebrew may not be the source of all others, all others can be shown to come from a sanskrit source, with a handfull of exceptions. Notably the Oriental languages (Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc) and one or two obscure languages from the hinterlands of Europe. This from reputable scholarly sources dealing in the study of linguistics.

    Ah, but therein lies some of the correspondences you are seeking: the linguistics are tied to the function. I.E., the god of the hunt in one culture often *translates* or *transliterates* into the god of the hunt in another culture.

    For example, I recently learned the Chinese have a "father Christmas" type figure, who they call Sinda Lau Yin. I cannot help but be amazed at the similarity with Santa Claus. And as we have already discovered here in a thread titled "santa theory," santa claus goes back as much as 60 thousand years, recognized by the ancient Ainu and Laplanders as the Wild Man.

    Cool. Hislop covers Zeus and correspondences well.

    Cool, something to look forward to.

    Such is the nature of scholarship.

    Another to look for.

    Again, scholarship. :cool:

    I can accept this. In mentioning Campbell I was remiss in not sticking directly to "words." I was drawing *complete* connections, of which words / names are but a token. As I mentioned already, function figures into these correspondences as well. Campbell's focus is on function.

    Sounds like some interesting reads, of course one could make this a study of a lifetime. Not to disregard such in any way, I have other skillets in the fire, and this subject (while important) is not the "be all and end all" to me. In short, this subject is but a minor fraction of my anthropological studies. I wish you well in your search, keep us posted! :D
     
  9. Alvis Rofhessa

    Alvis Rofhessa New Member

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    well it has been a while since my last entry/post but I very miserable/lazy/busy/distracted/unmotivated/uninspired lately and can't say if/when I will be able to post next/further entry/ies. So in meantime I give you links to previous posts of some entries on other forums,
    indo-european cogantes only:
    http://forum.skadi.net/cognate_gods_names_ind_eur-t62656.html
    and
    world but older/less certain:
    Philology of God Names - History Forum

    I have many where only a few/couple that I could perhaps post like:
    Indian Kama 'love/desire' ~ Greek Comus 'sensual pleasure' (comedy?)

    Are there any (other) deity names any of you would like to know my info/data/ideas on?
    Do any of you have any connections (of your own or from other sources) you'd like to share?
     
  10. Alvis Rofhessa

    Alvis Rofhessa New Member

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    found motivation to do a whole lot of (unexhaustive) entries at once. As I have/want put them on my web page there is no point posting them on web/net twice so here is where you can see them:
    Life & Tradition |
    I would very much like any pro/con comments/feedback (please?)
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Not maybe the comment you were looking for but the combination of that background and that font is painful.

    Your info seems extensive, but I have to cut and paste it to another format to read it. I'd try bolder/larger/different font/color...is it just my 50 year old eyes?
     

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