Matrixism - A religion based on The Matrix

Discussion in 'Alternative' started by DynoMight, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    You're arguing for the acceptance of a phenomenology resulting from an 'altered state of consciousness (ASC)'.

    I think most of us here actually accept that as a hypothesis. What we might not accept is what you assert in regard to your own reading of the data, and that is for you to present your case for, and here you rely on too many generalisations and too many assumptions on what both scripture and science actually says.

    I think you'd be better served by putting forward your beliefs in your own words.

    For me – I believe in ASCs. I have no problem with that. I do, perhaps, hold a greater reserve with regard to NDEs – Why? Because if the mind is as fallible as we known it to be, and if the vast majority of us are living an illusion as you assert we are, then an NDE will be a projection of those illusions, there is no good reason to suppose an NDE shatters a mirror or penetrates a veil. The fallible cortex is under significant stress, both physically and psychologically, and in stress situations we resort to the same-old, same-old... To expect it to act in any other way is, life experience tells us, a dubious gamble.

    – A sense of peace, a bright light at the end of a tunnel (as opposed to deeper darkness), encountering deceased loved ones or religious figures, feelings of positivity, even the transcendence of space and time, a sense of bliss, a sense of empathy, a sense of immanence, a sense of everything understood, of a reality beyond the norm –

    These can be explained as a wish response to a perceived threat. As the result of disassociation and depersonalisation that occurs in cases of profound trauma – like a NDE – if we wanted to be really skeptical, we could see them as soporific and saccharine. The experiences are always comforting, like someone saying 'it's going to be alright' into the ear of a dying man.

    But I happen to believe there's more to it than that.

    Spiritual and religious experience is a phenomena that occurs always and everywhere across the ages. Their transcultural features appear to be an archetypal expression of the human mind. But the mind can only interpret experience in the light of what it knows ...

    To me, there is a link between such phenomenologies, be they NDEs, mystic experiences, oracles and prophets, saints and sages, poetry, art, music, meditation ... But here's the thing – It could all be part of life's Grand Illusion. I hope not, I believe not, but that's me.
     
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  2. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Why should they? How does modern science make one a better Christian?

    Caution ... They're not all Christian, though, are they? Many are not even 'religious' and many say nothing about 'Paradise' – you're being very selective with the data. You're seeing what you want to see, there's a bigger picture.

    Agreed, and I am pro science, but it's never been the exemplar of doing the right thing.

    Oh that the Good Lord would preserve us from American Right Wing religious think-tanks!

    People tend not to. And if people want top believe in a flat earth, no amount of science will dissuade them – ther more aposite question might be why 'advanced' countries like the USA and the UK are such fertile ground for conspiracy theories.

    Well as I think we've all said, the Wachowskis aren't saying anything new. We pay more attention to original sources. Most people take the film to be what it is: entertainment.
     
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  3. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Can you explain what it is you have recognised?
     
  4. Geo

    Geo Member

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    Well if that's your conclusion Thomas so be it.
    Trick of the mind?

    What are the repetitive experiences during the process of those whose heart has stopped?
    One there is a great and shining light, like the sun, but not hard to view.
    Many answer the survey at nderf saying they have the sense of timelessness, or that it is somehow "different".
    A sense of great freedom, and no earthly worries evident.
    They tell us they are more alert than they've ever been!
    Answers about life and the universe come as soon as they are asked.
    Upon returning to their body and the material world, the "survival instinct" is subdued to nothing, and they have no fear of death, anymore.
    They've learned Thomas, they are more and other than this organic, "meat suit", as one has described it.

    The Matrix is real.

    There's an index at nderf, with hundreds of experiences going back several years.
    Take a look, and do some "homework", if you like.
    Thomas -
    Who say's? You? Thomas, the anecdotal evidence from the numerous experiences today say otherwise!

    Here's another one I just found.
    Again, not exactly the the same, but similar experiences which are repetitive through all the accounts with little deviation.

    Now, how do you explain the out of body, third person's perception of seeing everything?
    Which amazes the Dr's. or staff who were there?
    Even, away from their bodies in the hospital?

    Thomas?
    With regard to the "survival instinct", aren't humans "the virus" in the world?
    Causing all the misery on Earth?



    All this occurred after the Fall of the first man.
    The alternate timeline which occurred, which changed everything.

    What are you Thomas? Blue Pill? "Only human"? Or, more and other?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  5. Geo

    Geo Member

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    Perhaps this may help you also, regarding my perception and understanding. This is the confession of sins prayer in the Lutheran church. Not sure if it is in the Catholic liturgy.
    Someone share with Aupmanyav with regard to our last communication in which he expressed how there are no sins.

    "Heavenly Father, we know that we are sinful and unclean.
    We have sinned against you in thought word and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone.
    We have not loved you with all our heart.
    We have not loved our neighbor as ourselves.
    We justly deserve your present and eternal punishment.
    For the sake of your son Jesus Christ,
    have mercy on us.
    Forgive us, renew us and lead us, so we may walk in your way and rejoice in your will to the glory of your holy name

    Amen

    Said in every service.

    Once again. It's about the organic.
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Please read more closely.

    Please understand: Mystical experiences can be explained, but that does not mean I disbelieve them, in fact I do believe in them.

    But that is a matter of conviction, not a matter of fact. Whether there are 10, a 100 or a 1,000 says nothing when there are alternative interpretations.

    NDEs are not necessarily Christian. Indeed many are not at all.

    And many feel the same, who have never experienced an NDE, so that does not prove anything of NDEs.

    I know! I know we are more than the physical alone, how can I be Christian and not?

    The 'meat suit' however, again may be somewhat 'prosaic' but it's also unbiblical. It's an incorrect view of the physical domain, according to the Bible.


    D'you mean as in the general principle, or as in the movie, humans as biofoods bred to power the computers?
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Yes, it's a Lutheran version of a Catholic prayer.

    No ... it's not ...

    Adam and Eve fell when they were illumined beings, when they were beings of light.

    The organic might well be a consequence, but it is not the cause – it is blameless.
     
  8. Geo

    Geo Member

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    Thomas, when I've brought to your attention that, as prophesied, the Messiah atoned for the "sin of the world"... why would you state that NDE's, "aren't Christian"?
    What you mean is that many Christians don't see them as such? Because?
    They don't fully understand the Word.
    I've noticed something about protestantism.

    It's a bit of a confabulation, with respect to being saved... and earning God's love.
    Thomas-


    As stated, with regard to Revelation 12:4, and the associated scriptures I brought up.

    WITH RESPECT TO THIS ORGANIC, EVOLVED, ANIMAL/MAMMAL ASPECT, IN THIS MATRIX. (World.)
    With respect how in the greater reality and truth, Thomas, your future is a known.

    As told to us in the prophetic scriptures.

    Yes. The organic is a consequence of Adam's Fall.
    And, The Matrix in which we live.

    So, Thomas, if you believe that Life is more than this temporary, organic, evolved animal/ mammal situation...
    Congrats.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  9. Geo

    Geo Member

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    Just posted today in Wired...

    "Science and religion have often been at odds. But if we remove the theology—views about the nature of God, the creation of the universe, and the like—from the day-to-day practice of religious faith, the animosity in the debate evaporates."

    However? You don't have to remove the theology.
    See, "The End of Time."

    The Matrix has you.
     
  10. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Because you are interpreting NDEs through a Christian lens. It's called esiegesis, interpreting according to one's own presupposition. Commonly called reading into the text.

    NDEs are experienced the same, but interpreted quite differently, by Hinduism, by Buddhism. In fact The Tibetan Book of the Dead actually records the elements of an NDE. Pure Land Buddhism does the same.

    How you interpret the data depends where your coming from. What you see is what you expect to see.

    That's why the need for academic rigour.

    You say many NDEs speak of no longer fearing death. What about those, just about half in one survey, who go on to say they no longer believe in life after death?

    I know. You keep banging on about this as if we don't know ... we do ... we just draw different conclusions.

    Not quite. Adam and Eve were made organic, Scripture is quite clear on that point. We are body and spirit. The Fall inverted the relation.

    The point remains: our current condition is a consequence. It's an effect, not a cause.

    When the cause is corrected, the effect will come right.
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Really?

    Like: 'Fire often gets water all hot and bothered, but if you take the heat away, water's fine'?
     
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  12. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Where, might I ask, do you stand on Predestination?
     
  13. Geo

    Geo Member

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    241642786_367404298350684_5585349798145234410_n.jpg Thomas-
    Call it what you like Thomas. No great secret that the various religions agree on many things.
    If you look at the Tibetian Book of the Dead it also reveals what the NDE's speak of.

    Thomas-
    Yes.
    But different, as I've stated.
    The original Earth was different, in their situation of Paradise. (Re: The timeless).
    Different Earth... different Timeline, and whole other past apart from Evolution.

    Predestination Thomas goes along with what I stated about how the direction and works in ones lifetime reflects the core, or souls, disposition and intents.
    Probably reflecting within the DNA.

    I think we've addressed everything and it's time to start sharing the truth, Thomas.

    Our organic world, wherein we abide in time and space is, The Matrix.
    Of which the Wachowski siblings discussed among themselves in growing up, and then created, and reflected cinematically through their art, to the world.
    The greater reality and truth is not reflected in this predator/prey... temporary,...superficial... consequence, within this illusory, time and space paradigm.

    Very often, certain proclaimed Christians and "believers" have gotten a number of things wrong because of our focus on this temporary material creation.
    All of which is a consequence of the Fall of the first man...
    Which changed the direction of humanity, since.
    It's time to share the truth, in these latter days.

    242136686_10220627249490557_8202284608543508087_n.jpg

    Modern humanity, since the Fall, is in a much diminished state from what was original.
    It's been stated that Adam glowed.
    Recently, science has proved that the human body also emits light, apart from the infrared, albeit in a much diminished state.

    Nobody ought to argue Evolution either, because it exists, and yet it doesn't in the greater reality and truth.

    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/09/14/world/ancient-spider-amber-scn/index.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  14. Geo

    Geo Member

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  15. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    All electromagnetic radiation is called light. From radio waves to microwaves, to infrared and visible light, and on up the scale to ultraviolet light and x-rays and gamma rays -- it is all 'light' to scientists.


    “According to Einstein’s theory of relativity time is simply another dimension, meaning that the distinction between past present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion”

    Apart from the fact the theories of relativity are not exactly simple, lol, the fact that time is a dimension doesn’t mean it does not exist? The fact that space and time are relative to one another doesn’t mean time does not exist? The arrow of of time is no more an 'illusion' than the wall of your house, or the creaking of your joints as you get older.

    “Fast forward to today, and we now have strong empirical evidence showing that the mind does indeed influence matter, both at the subatomic quantum scale, and at scales consistent with classical physics.”
    Please present the evidence here?

    “Although many mainstream physicists would disagree, many wouldn’t, and don’t.”
    Please name those who do agree.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    So is this original different Earth the paradise spoken of in scripture?
    Can you explain this a bit better?
    I don't find this thought to be special or unique. Most religions agree there's more to human existence than the material world, and we all understand that time and space cease to exist -- for us -- when we die.

    The difference is believing 'The Matrix' is an evil design by the adversary Saklos of the Gospel of Judas. Which IMO you should investigate, as perhaps did the Wachowskis -- it's not a new idea.
    There's nothing new about this stuff. Whether or not it's 'the truth' is something else.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  17. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    So far I've seen in this thread both appeals to ancient and new teachings and insights, to support various positions.

    We had an interesting little exchange recently about The Authority of the Ancients vs Authority of Progress. Basically, what is better, that a teaching be ancient or that it is cutting-edge?

    Maybe you all could contribute to it @Geo, @Thomas and @RJM Corbet, taking this particular exchange to that thread? I think it is not specific to Matrixism, and would interest the wider forum.
     
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  18. Geo

    Geo Member

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  19. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    In that article, simple resonance of oscillators and a swarm of fireflies flashing in unison are put side by side. Do you think they are governed by the same laws, even though one (oscillators) are governed by basic physical properties and the other (fireflies) by complex neurological information processing?
     
  20. Geo

    Geo Member

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    6a447d89facf91df179e6411e0ffdf8d.jpg That's a good question.

    But, is our material reality really a construct of our mind? A translation of the frequencies, and vibrations etc. ?
    Things to pause over.
     

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