Matrixism - A religion based on The Matrix

[Cino]

Is this take on Adam's creation related to the 13th Archon 'Laldaboeth/Saklos' in the Gospel of Judas? Essentially, we are the victims of an evil false creator god. Is this where you're coming from with this?

I just noticed that the Gospel of Judas is not included in our collection of Apocrypha here on I.O. There is a public domain version available at https://www.gospels.net/judas which we could link to or copy to the collection.

 

[RJM]

I just noticed that the Gospel of Judas is not included in our collection of Apocrypha here on I.O. There is a public domain version available at https://www.gospels.net/judas which we could link to or copy to the collection.

Ok. Thanks @Cino. Best to copy it? Do you want me to do it? Later

 

[Thomas]

I'll do that, @RJM Corbet, you do enough ... or I could do more, one or t'other ...

 

[RJM]

I'll do that, @RJM Corbet, you do enough ... or I could do more, one or t'other ...

That would be great. I'm at work. Thanks @Thomas

 

[Geo]

Cino, I think I've provided enough here!

Corbet, so I've stated that again, "Stars" represent both angels and people alike, from Genesis to Revelation. With regard to Daniel 12:3.
In Revelation 12:4, we see a short history of mankind's origins, apart from time. Angels, brought down by the devil's tail in his rebellion.
Cast out by God because of his ego.
(You think that God is evil?
You can keep following the Gnostic error, until judgement day if that's what you choose.)
- In Rev. 22:9 we see how we are fellow servants with the angels.
And Jesus, the "Bright and Morning Star".
The angelic is our original and actual state, and situation, apart from this Matrix.
Apart from this organic spectrum and timeline, complete with it's history of evolution, from the lower homonoid forms, which is true in this deviant timeline, but which itself is a Lie.
What did Morpheus character state in the movie?
That you represent those who's minds we are trying to save, cino.
But until we do you will fight us trying to save your organic situation in this temporary and short life.

Like BeckyThatch I was referred here, but seems to me you aren't really serious concerning the Truth. You may feel that the Gnostic interpretation, and accusations against God absolves one of their various organic deviances, but it is a trick of the devil, which you've chosen to subscribe to.

The Lord has presented His case to you in the Gospels, and the chance to repent of the, "sin of the world" (which is this organic state), and be rescued.
You might look at Leviticus 17:11.

~ I have no problem with non habitual drugs.

 

[Geo]

Also. Corbet, regarding in Genesis chapter 3, you may want to note that after the Fall, (in Paradise), the Angel guarding the Tree of Life was also described as a Cherub, concerning the devil's description in Ezekiel 28.
Re: "the cherub which covers".

 

[RJM]

Cino, I think I've provided enough here!

Corbet, so I've stated that again, "Stars" represent both angels and people alike, from Genesis to Revelation. With regard to Daniel 12:3.
In Revelation 12:4, we see a short history of mankind's origins, apart from time. Angels, brought down by the devil's tail in his rebellion.
Cast out by God because of his ego.
(You think that God is evil?
You can keep following the Gnostic error, until judgement day if that's what you choose.)
- In Rev. 22:9 we see how we are fellow servants with the angels.
And Jesus, the "Bright and Morning Star".
The angelic is our original and actual state, and situation, apart from this Matrix.
Apart from this organic spectrum and timeline, complete with it's history of evolution, from the lower homonoid forms, which is true in this deviant timeline, but which itself is a Lie.
What did Morpheus character state in the movie?
That you represent those who's minds we are trying to save, cino.
But until we do you will fight us trying to save your organic situation in this temporary and short life.

Like BeckyThatch I was referred here, but seems to me you aren't really serious concerning the Truth. You may feel that the Gnostic interpretation, and accusations against God absolves one of their various organic deviances, but it is a trick of the devil, which you've chosen to subscribe to.

The Lord has presented His case to you in the Gospels, and the chance to repent of the, "sin of the world" (which is this organic state), and be rescued.
You might look at Leviticus 17:11.

~ I have no problem with non habitual drugs.

Also. Corbet, regarding in Genesis chapter 3, you may want to note that after the Fall, (in Paradise), the Angel guarding the Tree of Life was also described as a Cherub, concerning the devil's description in Ezekiel 28.
Re: "the cherub which covers".

So Matrixism sees nature in the organic state as fallen from the original angelic/spiritual state -- with 'the adversary' -- the ruler of this world, to blame? Sorry, that doesn't strike me as a greatly original point of view? What's so special about that? Can you elaborate?

@Geo I originally asked if you agreed in principle with the Gospel of Judas. I did not say I agreed with it.

 

[Cino]

Cino, I think I've provided enough here!

 

[Geo]

Cino, seems that may be accurate.
Corbert? You don't think that it's all that original?
Did you have an idea that I'm communicating something I've heard from the pulpit?
Try going to a Christian forum, or a church, and inform them that their origins are of the angelic.
See what their reaction is.

I've had to research this after becoming familiar with the movie, and with my understanding of what the physicists are telling us about Time.
The Creation Research Foundation, and other attempts to reconcile what science is telling us about evolution is all a fallacy. Because we're in a different timeline, which again; the physicists are also telling us, is but an illusion.

It's kind of funny because I've thought about those old cartoons I would watch as a kid, and when one of the characters died, they'd show them with angels wings and going up into the sky.
Who knew?
"From the mouth of Babes".

 

[RJM]

Corbert? You don't think that it's all that original?

Correct

Did you have an idea that I'm communicating something I've heard from the pulpit?
Try going to a Christian forum, or a church, and inform them that their origins are of the angelic.
See what their reaction is.

Hang around here a bit, you might pick up quite a few ideas you didn't hear from the pulpit, lol. It's all here. Welcome to Interfaith.Org ...

 

[Geo]

Thanks.

I believe you had asked in another thread somewhere, if people felt if death is an illusion?
Seeing this life in the world has a beginning and an end, how real do you feel this organic life is in comparison to the timeless, and eternity?
Btw, did you get a chance to look up "Paradise" in the new testament?

 

[Cino]

... you represent those who's minds we are trying to save, cino.
But until we do you will fight us trying to save your organic situation in this temporary and short life.

While I don't share Cypher's craving for meat, I do believe it is a bit presumptuous on the part of the Saviours to decide the rest of us need saving.

Here's my favorite Cypher quote: "I'm tired, Trinity. I'm tired of this world. I'm tired of fighting, tired of this ship, being cold and eating the same goddamn goop every day."

Also, in the original movie, ironically it is Smith who most wants to be free of the Matrix, as he admits in the scene where he interrogates Morpheus. Everybody else wants to go back in, to meet oracles or eat steak or save someone or create women in red dresses, or be a bullet-dodging superhero - only Smith is sincere in his will to get out.

Edit: I'm enjoying our discussion a lot, and appreciate your joining our forums! Just in case that didn't come across.

 

[RJM]

Thanks.

I believe you had asked in another thread somewhere, if people felt if death is an illusion?
Seeing this life in the world has a beginning and an end, how real do you feel this organic life is in comparison to the timeless, and eternity?
Btw, did you get a chance to look up "Paradise" in the new testament?

Physics deals with time&space. Physics cannot penetrate beyond this natural/organic dimension in which we find ourselves, limited by our five natural senses of sight, hearing and so on -- and of which our wonderful (truly wonderful) scientific instruments and telescopes and microscopes are actually just an extension. Imo

What's your take on 'Paradise' in the New Testament?

 

[Geo]

Is it too much to see where it is used Corbet?
Why take my word on it.

Cino, yes. You are talking about this world.
You know at the end of the Matrix 1 I believe, they included a commercial for Powerade.
And, the agent went on to describe our situation here as a smelly, disease infected corporeal situation. - "And to drink our Powerade", as the Matrix needs our power output.
They don't include it in the DVD's now, or even anymore on YouTube I noticed!
So I say to people that the greater reality and truth, Cino, is about the timeless and eternity.
That's our home. You can see this in the many NDE accounts at www.nderf.org
The devil instigated this organic timeline, and most see it as the only reality. We read about it, and see in the news everyday.
but it is the simulation physicists wonder about.
~ I shared with you about what salvation is about.

 

[Cino]

Cino, yes. You are talking about this world.
You know at the end of the Matrix 1 I believe, they included a commercial for Powerade.
And, the agent went on to describe our situation here as a smelly, disease infected corporeal situation. - "And to drink our Powerade", as the Matrix needs our power output.
They don't include it in the DVD's now, or even anymore on YouTube I noticed!

I didn't know that, interesting! I only ever watched it on DVD.

Tell more about how you understand the film.

So what do you think the "power" (symbolized by a battery in the movie) stands for? You mention stars; the divine spark is a symbol that features strongly in some ancient gnostic writings, and must have influenced Crowley when he wrote, "every man and every woman is a star" or "... the flame that burns in every heart of man, and in the core of every star". Your thoughts?

What do the machines stand for?

What does the Matrix stand for? Is it the honey-comb of womb-like pods? How is that physical, bodily confinement a "prison for the mind"? Is it really about the physical vs. the spiritual? After all, in the film, the roles are reversed, the Matrix is non-physical, "spiritual" in a sense, while the "desert of the real" is where the actual biological bodies live?

So I say to people that the greater reality and truth, Cino, is about the timeless and eternity.
That's our home. You can see this in the many NDE accounts at www.nderf.org

NDE accounts are fascinating I think! And yet, to me, the operative word is "near". All of these accounts are accounts by people who were alive to tell the tale, rather than dead. They are accounts told by the living to the living.

As to eternity, what exactly do you mean by it? The experience that "it is always now"? The idea that there must be a moment after this present one one, and one after that, and so on, in an ordered way?

The devil instigated this organic timeline, and most see it as the only reality. We read about it, and see in the news everyday.
but it is the simulation physicists wonder about.

As someone who studied physics, I wish to point out that the simulation hypothesis is not widely accepted, so it would be more correct to say that "some physicists wonder about" it, not all.

~ I shared with you about what salvation is about.

If you like the simulation hypothesis, how do you hold the possibility that paradise is yet another layer of simulation?

 

[Geo]

Well, again it's one reason I referred to the book, "The End of Time".
Time is something we abide in, as organic creatures here, Cino.
It doesn't exist in the greater scheme of things.
In the NDE accounts, you hear the comments of "Time is different!", or, "There was no time", repeatedly.
Yes, the movie doesn't exactly share the Truth with us completely, but goes a long way.
You feel this "reality" is real Cino?
Like Morpheus stated, because of the frequencies which your brain and nervous system tells you. But that's it.

How do I know that Heaven or Paradise is not part of the, "simulation"?
Well, I do believe that the NDE accounts are true. What do I read in them?
Comments about how everything is so clarid, and more real than anything they've ever experienced.
Back in the Eighties, when someone whom we loved left us suddenly in a helicopter crash, I recall how I woke up the next morning recalling something from the Bible which I had never attempted to memorize. It was like the beginning of the movie Star Wars where the words scrolled before me. Line by line.

Where Jesus says, "In my Fathers house there are many mansions. I go to prepare a place for you. If it weren't true I would tell you.
And, if I go to prepare a place for you I will come again to receive you unto myself, so that where I am you may be also."
And then Cino, we can also refer to the Physicists since Einstein telling us about how this reality isn't as real as we think.
Such as Einstein's statement of, "Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live."

 

[Cino]

I just read the Wikipedia article on Matrixism, where it states that Abdul Baha of the Baha'i faith is, by virtue of his writings, one of the influences. Have you discussed your faith with any Baha'i?

 

[Thomas]

Seeing that Paradise is a timeless situation, should we consider that Adam was not like us pre-Fall. That he was both a luminous and, in an Angelic situation?

Not really.

The Bible is quite specific that humanity is the union of spirit and matter, whereas angels are incorporeal creatures. Nor, among the choir of angels, are they all possessed of a rational, self-reflective intellect – only the higher choirs are thus endowed. As St Paul says: "Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?" (1 Corinthians 6:30).

The primordial couple walked with God in Paradise. Every created nature sits in its ordered place. Our place is in the finite realm, the material world, and we are the interface between the world of the spirits and the world of matter, in that sense we excel above angels, but as created natures, angels are creatures of pure intellect, whereas in humanity the intellect works through the senses. Then again, the state of fallen angels is lower than humanity in the hierarchy.

If you will research "Stars" in the Bible, you can see how they represent both angels and people alike, from Genesis to Revelation. Including the Lord Himself.

Quite. The language of Scripture is rich in allusion, metaphor, analogy ... Scripture is not alone in making that comparison, and no doubt many of those elements were drawn from neighbouring cultures. Note that both the King of Babylon, Lucifer and Jesus are likened to the 'Day Star' – Venus – so the interpretation is always contextual.

We share the same "survival instinct" as every other organism on the planet. Yet, even though as believers, we should understand that there is a greater reality and truth involving the timeless and eternity.

Surely we – those to whom such rabbit holes matter – are aware of that? I think everyone here is. How we interpret that differs ...

Life certainly is more and other than this short organic experience, in time and space, here in this world. And in fact, scriptures offer support for our understanding that we are more, and other, than this temporary organic form.
(Daniel 12:3, Revelation 12:4, Revelation 22:9)

And some, such as myself, equate 'life' as being metahuman. Life is what animates me, I am not life, even though I live. The resurrected body, we are informed, will bve incorruptible and immortal, so the world will indeed be changed.

Most Physicists since Einstein tell us that time and space are merely the way our organic brain thinks.

Well, physicality and duration were factors of the cosmos before man. We didn't invent it. Our perception is determined by the conditions in which we find ourselves.

Einstein states that, "There is no room for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality."

Ultimately, yes, but that does not render other fields 'unreal', or rather, only in an ontological sense.

We can know as well that we are in the simulation, or program, of which the Physicists speculate about.

There's a world of difference between a program and a simulation. Be cautious about getting carried away with anthropomorphisms.

Every program has a Programmer of it, just as every creation, a Creator.

Well that's certainly an opinion.

The devil, as we know, is referred to as "the ruler", and "the god of" this world.

Only if we allow it.

Maybe the devil intends us to think of this world as unreal, whereas, in fact, it's the place where the rubber hits the road, as it were ... We can speculate all we like about other states, but all that's essentially inconsequential.

What we do in the here and now matters.

 

[Geo]

Cino, no I haven't as I am a believer in Christ.

However of course doesn't mean that others have something significant to say. Such as Baha or Gautama.

My understanding is that the Bahai's believe that Christ will return through reincarnation, which would allow the anti-christ to claim to be Him.
But the scriptures tell us otherwise, such as in Acts 1:11.

Thomas, seems your full of excuses! With rambling reasoning!
My "opinion" is that a program must have a Programmer of it?
Jesus referred to the devil as "the ruler of this world." Why? Paul also describing him as "the god of this world".
Again, because like every other creature in the world... you share your survival instinct with them.

And, unlike the actual reality apart from time, you (like every other creature) have a beginning and an end here in this world.

Just like every other creature which is part of this program.
We've been told about future events in this world in prophetic scriptures, by the One Who is apart from Time.
So we can understand we are part of a program.

You have the scriptures I've presented, so you have no rational reasoning, and you will be responsible at the end of this life.
Unless you avail yourself of Christ's atonement for you on the cross, as long prophesied through the old testament books.
Such as in Leviticus 17:11.

 

[Thomas]

Thomas, seems your full of excuses! With rambling reasoning!

Oh, I'm sorry. If you can't follow my reasoning, please point out and I'll clarify for you.

Let me clarify the main point:

Seeing that Paradise is a timeless situation, should we consider that Adam was not like us pre-Fall. That he was both a luminous and, in an Angelic situation?

Short answer: No.

Angels are creatures of pure spirit. 'Adam' is the union of spirit and matter.
Angels are incorporeal. Adam is corporeal.
Angels do not possess a body. Adam does.

From the moment of his creation, Adam was a physical form. 'Adam' is not really a name as such, the Hebrew adam means 'man' or 'human', and throughout the narrative it carries the definite ha-adam – the man.

It's worth paying attention to the text of Genesis 2. The distinction between the two spheres, if you like, between heaven and earth, is clear and unambiguous. The account of the creation of Adam is very much to do with the earthly sphere.

"And every plant of the field before it sprung up in the earth (Hb: eres), and every herb of the ground (adamah) before it grew: for the Lord God had not rained upon the earth (eres); and there was not a man (adam) to till the ground (adamah).

"And the Lord God formed man (adam) of the slime of the ground (adamah): and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man (adam) became a living soul. And the Lord God had planted a garden (note: 'paradise of pleasure' is a later and somewhat poetic interpretation, flavoured by other texts. The use of 'paradise' occurs in later references, but is not strictly accurate according to the Hebrew of Genesis 2) from the beginning: wherein he placed man (adam) whom he had formed.

"And the Lord God took the man (adam), and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."

The point here being that the Eden is an earthly paradise, not heaven, and Adam is an earthly creature, albeit imbued with a soul (as are all living creatures), a soul with a spiritual capacity, which sets humanity apart from the animal world.