Accusations Against the Baha`i Administration in India

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Messages
607
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Location
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
After this accusation was posted on another Baha`i Thread, I did some research and requested news from scholars on one of the Baha`i Studies lists.

Professor Susan Maneck was kind enough to get back to me on the matter.

1) No one on the National Spiritual Assembly of India was accused of anything.

2) A court stayed any action on arrests concerning eight members of the administrative committee that oversees the Baha`i Temple near New Delhi.

3) Only one Baha`i was arrested on charges of forging passports about 25 years ago.

I append the e-mail and a report on the incident from Indian news sources:

"A lot of charges were made, this one (about espionage) being the most outrageous and almost certainly false.

"There are also charges of irregularities in the handling of funds for the Lotus Temple, perhaps more plausible but still not proven. Only one person has been arrested so far and he is now released. He was not a member of the NSA but a Persian Baha'i who was accused of having forged some passports decades ago. That's possible because Iranian Baha'is at the time were desperate to avoid deportation.

"My information is that Baha'i Institutions in India are have a lot of
labor problems right now, but this spying business is nonsense.

"Here is one article on I've read on this. "

warmest, Susan

THE DELHI High Court on Friday stayed the arrest of eight management
committee members of Lotus Temple, the famed Bahai shrine, charged
with indulging in anti-national activities.

Justice A.K. Sikri stayed the arrest on a petition, which claimed that
the prosecuting agencies had so far failed to establish even an iota
of evidence to prove the charges. Senior counsel K. Sood, appearing
for the petitioners, submitted that the investigating agencies —
including the CBI and Delhi government — had found no substance in
the
allegations levelled against the management by a section of the sacked
employees.

The additional chief metropolitan magistrate had on July 3, directed
the Crime Branch of the Delhi police to register and FIR and conduct
investigations into the allegations of anti-national activities by
some members of the management.

Justice Sikri, while staying the arrest, directed Delhi police to file
a status report on the investigations conducted so far into the
allegations.

The complainants, a group of former employees of the shrine, through
their counsels S.S. Tripathi and Sandeep Jain, had earlier moved the
ACMM [Additional Chief Metropolitan Magistrate].
 
'O Son of Spirit! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbour. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behoveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.'

(Bahá'u'lláh, Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh, p. 36)
 
After this accusation was posted on another Baha`i Thread, I did some research and requested news from scholars on one of the Baha`i Studies lists.

Professor Susan Maneck was kind enough to get back to me on the matter.

1) No one on the National Spiritual Assembly of India was accused of anything.

2) A court stayed any action on arrests concerning eight members of the administrative committee that oversees the Baha`i Temple near New Delhi.

3) Only one Baha`i was arrested on charges of forging passports about 25 years ago.

I append the e-mail and a report on the incident from Indian news sources:

"A lot of charges were made, this one (about espionage) being the most outrageous and almost certainly false.

"There are also charges of irregularities in the handling of funds for the Lotus Temple, perhaps more plausible but still not proven. Only one person has been arrested so far and he is now released. He was not a member of the NSA but a Persian Baha'i who was accused of having forged some passports decades ago. That's possible because Iranian Baha'is at the time were desperate to avoid deportation.

"My information is that Baha'i Institutions in India are have a lot of
labor problems right now, but this spying business is nonsense.

"Here is one article on I've read on this. "

warmest, Susan

THE DELHI High Court on Friday stayed the arrest of eight management
committee members of Lotus Temple, the famed Bahai shrine, charged
with indulging in anti-national activities.

Justice A.K. Sikri stayed the arrest on a petition, which claimed that
the prosecuting agencies had so far failed to establish even an iota
of evidence to prove the charges. Senior counsel K. Sood, appearing
for the petitioners, submitted that the investigating agencies —
including the CBI and Delhi government — had found no substance in
the
allegations levelled against the management by a section of the sacked
employees.

The additional chief metropolitan magistrate had on July 3, directed
the Crime Branch of the Delhi police to register and FIR and conduct
investigations into the allegations of anti-national activities by
some members of the management.

Justice Sikri, while staying the arrest, directed Delhi police to file
a status report on the investigations conducted so far into the
allegations.

The complainants, a group of former employees of the shrine, through
their counsels S.S. Tripathi and Sandeep Jain, had earlier moved the
ACMM [Additional Chief Metropolitan Magistrate].

you conveniently forgot to add that Zena Sorabjee, one of the trustees is the wife of the former Attorney General of India. The same report mentions this. Also in another report, the name of the "Irani Bahai" is given. You can find it on my web site.

Also, none of the trustees are acquitted. Their arrest has just been stayed. The case is still on in court. So dont start celebrating yet.

Also, you should get an independent view. Bahais will naturally deny the charges. Let the courts say that first. The very fact that the case was filed for treason against the country and directly at the trustees says something.

Please ask Susan to visit my web site. She probably read only one report. I have all the newspaper reports which have appeared so far on the case.

Any reason why the NSA of India has not publically denied the charges or that the official Bahai web site is silent about this. What are the Bahais doing about the one "Irani Bahai" who made not one, two but 80 passports!! 80! Maybe he feared deportation for all Indian bahais so he made one for all of them.

Regards, as always
Imran
 
"The case is still on in court. So dont start celebrating yet."

What I find rather odd is that you automatically assume that an allegation is any indication of guilt... Any one can allege practically anything in a court of law but until the case is properly tried no one should make prejudiced remarks and if as you say "the NSA of India has not publically denied the charges" it is to allow the wheels of justice to turn and not make prejudicial statements. Baha'is obey duly constituted authorities.

- Art
 
Actually the Baha`i Administrative order has dealt with individual Baha`i crime ocassionally in the past, also the rare occurence of malfeasance by Baha`i administrators.

If an individual is convicted of a crime, their administrative rights are revoked until the matter is dealt with by the courts and any jail time is finished. Before that however, if the Assembly (National, Local ) is concerned that there is the APPEARANCE of malfeasance or turpitude that individual is asked to step down until the matter is resolved, then the issue is passed on to higher authority up to and including the Universal House of Justice.

About fifteen years ago one long-time member of the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States stepped down because there was an appearance of a personal conflict of interest in his law practice. The matter was resolved, and the individual has served on Regional Councils in the U.S. since.

At points the behavior of individual followers of the Bab or Baha`u'llah even caused direct harm to Baha`u'llah.

"We have said: 'My imprisonment doeth Me no harm, nor do the things that have befallen Me at the hands of My enemies. That which harmeth Me is the conduct of my loved ones who, though they bear My name, yet commit that which maketh My heart and My pen to lament.' Such utterances as these have again and again been revealed, yet the heedless have failed to profit thereby, since they are captive to their own evil passions and corrupt desires. Beseech thou the One true God that He may enable everyone to repent and return unto Him. So long as one's nature yieldeth unto evil passions, crime and transgression will prevail. We cherish the hope that the hand of divine power and the outpouring of heavenly blessings may sustain all men, may attire them with the vesture of forgiveness and bounty and guard them against that which would harm His Cause among His servants. He is, in truth, the Potent, the All-Powerful, and He is the Ever-Forgiving, the Merciful." 71
(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 70)

None of this, of course, is really relevant as an attack on the body of the Faith. Because one cannot honestly hang the crimes of individuals on the Manifestation anyway.

The Manifestations are recorded to have dealt with crimes committed by followers in every sacred text in the Abrahamic cycle of religions from Moses to Baha`u'llah--including Islam. None of these crimes reflected upon the Bearer of the Revelation, nor the Revelation Itself.

This is probably a tempest in a teapot created by disgruntled employees. The National Spiritual Assembly of India is innocent of any accusations, jointly and individually. Trustees are appointed, not elected.

In 166 years of history, tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands have served the Faith-elected or appointed-honestly and reputably: just as they have in Islam over the same period.

Corruption in an individual who represents his/her faith is heinous. I'll leave others to decide what the rate of individual misbehavior in individual faiths to others. In any individual case the crimes are individual, not joint.

One last question: Why would any Baha`i institution spy for anyone, let alone the Iranian government which persecutes Baha`i's on a day-to-day basis.

Does a government have the right, under current standards of international law drive its citizens out because of race, gender, social status, or religious affiliation? Would Imran like to comment on that?

Probably not, he's already admitted that the Iranian government WANTS to have the Baha`i's gone. I've already pointed out that the Iranian government makes it impossible for those Baha`i's to leave without foreswearing their religion. "Taqiyyih" or denial of faith in the face of the perception of danger is ethically quite easy in the Shi'ite clergy's eyes. Baha`is have accepted a faith where that is NOT ethical behavior. The Iranian government knows that and uses it to keep Baha`i's under their collective thumbs.

All any Baha`i imprisoned in Iran has to do from an Iranian jurisprudence point of view is say he/she is a Muslim and they are free to go. That admission forfeits one's right to be considered a Baha`i at all under Baha`i jurisprudence. Will Imran comment on that?

Regards,
Scott
 
imranshaykh said:
The very fact that the case was filed for treason against the country and directly at the trustees says something.

Yes: it says that dishonest people will lie to further their own agendas.

Bahais will naturally deny the charges.

Just as YOU will "naturally" publicize them!

Can you say "prejudice?"

I knew you could! :-( :-(

(How ironic that you're always denying you're against the Baha'i Faith even as you rush to parrot nonsense like this.)

Bruce
 
Yes: it says that dishonest people will lie to further their own agendas. Just as YOU will "naturally" publicize them!

Can you say "prejudice?" I knew you could! :-( :-(

(How ironic that you're always denying you're against the Baha'i Faith even as you rush to parrot nonsense like this.)

Bruce

The espionage report seems to have upset you. Forgive me for raising it and causing such a stir. But I did not file the case nor am I responsible for throwing the Bahais out of Iran. Lets skip all this talk of politics and focus on the Bab.

Lets talk about whether Bab was the promised Mahdi of Islam. My friends Scott, Art, yourself have yet to show me one Islamic prophecy which was fulfilled by the Bab. I beg you - open your hearts and share your knowledge with me on this matter. The only refs I get are Bahai claims to the effect or the Bab's claims from SWB. I am sure that you will agree that given the rich culture of traditions and books in Islam, there must be something that Bahais will accept to prove the Bab was the Mahdi.

I am not raising this to prove that the Bab was not the Mahdi. I am intrigued that how the Bahais can explain that the 12th Imam who went into occultation in 260 AH came back as the Bab? When his own occultation was a miracle, how come when he "returned" as the Bab, he disproved all miracles and could not produce a single one when being asked to do so.

Having said that, lets not discuss it here for fear of corrupting the thread which is about the Bahai espionage case in India. I have a parallel thread. This topic can be taken up there. I welcome all views.

And yes, Bruce, I can say Prejudice. And only time will tell whether I was parotting sense or nonsense, right? So lets leave it at that and be good friends!

Warm regards, as always
Imran
 
I noticed in another thread that you did not want to consider the Kitab'i Iqan because it was written by Baha`u'llah. You seemed to be unaware that Baha`u'llah makes absolutely no claim for Himself in the entire Book of Certitude, it is all about proof for the station of the Bab.

The Iqan is written as a reply to a letter hand-delivered to Baha`u'llah in Baghdad by one of the three maternal uncles of the Bab.

One uncle accepted his nephew's claim immediately, one remained in a quandry about it for nearly twenty years before visiting Baha`u'llah to hear His answers. The third uncle never did accept the Bab or Baha`u'llah.

The first uncle died a martyr in 1852 or 1853, the second became a Bab`i then a Baha`i after receiving answers to his questions from Baha`u'llah. The third never accepted the new faith at all.

But before trying to discuss proofs of the Bab's Station and claims, the Iqan is pretty much mandatory reading. Why not read it, and get back to us.

Regards,
Scott
 
There are other events which could be considered 'miraculous':
Being seen by the governor of the prison of Chiriq praying at the river when he was actually locked away in His cell.

When the chief of His guards in Esfahan's son was sick in a cholera epidemic at the time the Bab was leaving the city, the Bab gave the man the water He had washed His face and hands in instructing the guard to have his son drink from the water and He would be cured. According to Dawnbreakers these incidents while miraculous in nature, do not constitute 'proof' to anyone but those who witnessed them.

The nature of the 'proof' offered by miracles in the faith is that miracles in themselves provide proof of nothing, since once beyond the witnesses of the event, it's only hearsay. The best proof of the truth of a Prophet is His person and His words.

Regards,
Scott
 
I noticed in another thread that you did not want to consider the Kitab'i Iqan because it was written by Baha`u'llah. You seemed to be unaware that Baha`u'llah makes absolutely no claim for Himself in the entire Book of Certitude, it is all about proof for the station of the Bab.

The Iqan is written as a reply to a letter hand-delivered to Baha`u'llah in Baghdad by one of the three maternal uncles of the Bab.

One uncle accepted his nephew's claim immediately, one remained in a quandry about it for nearly twenty years before visiting Baha`u'llah to hear His answers. The third uncle never did accept the Bab or Baha`u'llah.

The first uncle died a martyr in 1852 or 1853, the second became a Bab`i then a Baha`i after receiving answers to his questions from Baha`u'llah. The third never accepted the new faith at all.

But before trying to discuss proofs of the Bab's Station and claims, the Iqan is pretty much mandatory reading. Why not read it, and get back to us.

Regards,
Scott

It is not that I do not accept the Iqan. How can one reject the Iqan. But the Iqan came much later than the Bab. So when the time comes and if we all have the inclination, we can discuss the Iqan. The Quran was a proof for Prophet Mohammed in his lifetime as the Bible was for Jesus. Also, as I said, I wish to see some Islamic proofs for the Bab being the Mahdi. The Mahdi is not some obscure concept which suddenly came up. As I mentioned earlier, there are 1000's of traditions about the Mahdi and verses of the Quran which have a reference to the Mahdi through the traditions. My main question is that how did the Bab come about to become the Mahdi.

I do have a different take on miracles and Inshallah, if Allah grants me time, I will put that down as well. But I will discipline myself for now to stick to the topic of the Bab being the Mahdi.

Regards
Imran
 
Imran,

Why should we follow YOUR rules?

Actually this thread deals with the accusations against the Baha`i Trustees in India NOT the claims of the Bab.

Don't hijack this thread, start your own.

Regards,
Scott
 
Last edited:
Imran,

Why should we follow YOUR rules?

Actually this thread deals with the accusations against the Baha`i Trustees in India NOT the claims of the Bab.

Don't hijack this thread, start your own.

Regards,
Scott

I did not know I was setting any rules here. Who am I to set rules. I am only a humble student of the Bahai Faith. Anyways, dont follow my "rules". Lets follow yours. But the question will belong to me. If you want, just answer the question. The question was how can one establish that the Bab was the Mahdi from Islamic sources. It is written here in plan English. If you knew Arabic or Persian, I would have been happy to write it in those languages as well.

You want me to read the Iqan which is not considered an Islamic source. Hence I asked for verses from the Quran or traditions from the Prophet or the Imams on the subject. There are plenty of both. All I need to know is which ones are accepted by the Bahais as a proof for the Bab being the Mahdi of Islam.

Also read my post #7. I have no desire or intention to hijack this thread. I made my point there clearly and without any prejudice that I have a parallel thread running and that we can take this discussion there. That is in plain English as well.

Regards, as always
Imran
 
Seems a certain amount of defensiveness here. Which is a pity.

The Baha'i requirement for an 'independent search for truth' means, IMO anyway, asking questions that Baha'is might find offensive. But seeing that the independent search criteria are set by a manifestation of God, it is not a question of whether baha'is find it offensive but whether the question itself can be answered.

Kiwimac
 
I did not know I was setting any rules here. Who am I to set rules. I am only a humble student of the Bahai Faith. Anyways, dont follow my "rules". Lets follow yours. But the question will belong to me. If you want, just answer the question. The question was how can one establish that the Bab was the Mahdi from Islamic sources. It is written here in plan English. If you knew Arabic or Persian, I would have been happy to write it in those languages as well.

You want me to read the Iqan which is not considered an Islamic source. Hence I asked for verses from the Quran or traditions from the Prophet or the Imams on the subject. There are plenty of both. All I need to know is which ones are accepted by the Bahais as a proof for the Bab being the Mahdi of Islam.

Also read my post #7. I have no desire or intention to hijack this thread. I made my point there clearly and without any prejudice that I have a parallel thread running and that we can take this discussion there. That is in plain English as well.

Regards, as always
Imran

Imran,

You hijacked the last thread. I opened a thread for something you brought up, now you want to hijack this one away from its original intent.

What parallel thread? Where?
 
Imran,

You hijacked the last thread. I opened a thread for something you brought up, now you want to hijack this one away from its original intent.

What parallel thread? Where?

You need English classes. Read post #7 again. I did not want to hijack this thread. My thread is Islam and the Bahai Faith.

Regards,
Imran
 
Hello Kiwi!

Say I was glad to read your post.... I saw on another board that you had become an Anglican priest! Is that for real or do I have my wires crossed????... I apologize if it is not the case..but there may be another Kiwimac out there...

Imran doesn't seem to accept that the Bab was the return of the twelfth Imam and I know this must be a burning issue for him...I think it deserves a separate topic but it was gone over a few months ago. I think he has a right to his views.

- Art
 
Seems a certain amount of defensiveness here. Which is a pity.

The Baha'i requirement for an 'independent search for truth' means, IMO anyway, asking questions that Baha'is might find offensive. But seeing that the independent search criteria are set by a manifestation of God, it is not a question of whether baha'is find it offensive but whether the question itself can be answered.

Kiwimac


Questions are never offensive, Kiwi. Genuine questions, anyway. Have you looked at Imran's website? Please, do, then judge if his questions are genuine.

Regards,
Scott
 
Thanks to the independent investigation of of Popeyesays we were able to discern the truth of the matter as related to the topic of this thread.
 
Back
Top