Modern Churches puting too much emphasis on Jesus instead of God?

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Seeker_of_truth

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I hardly ever hear God anymore in churches. It's always concentrated on Jesus. The Father is not spoken of as much as he should be in my opinion.
When a person talks about Christianity it's always "Jesus loves you" and "Jesus knows your heart". That kind of bothers me.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Should the Faither be more spoken of and praised than the Son?
 
Seeker_of_truth said:
I hardly ever hear God anymore in churches. It's always concentrated on Jesus. The Father is not spoken of as much as he should be in my opinion.
When a person talks about Christianity it's always "Jesus loves you" and "Jesus knows your heart". That kind of bothers me.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Should the Faither be more spoken of and praised than the Son?
Click to expand...
You've obviously not been to an Episcopalian service lately.
 
although there should be times the entire bible be read and studied at church. so in the old testament, that lays the groundwork and gives us understanding as to why and what is going to happen, there's talk about god's (father, son, holy spirit) creation, laws, and prophecy of a coming saviour. in the new testament there's more talk about the lord jesus christ, the creator, fulfillment of the laws and fulfillment of the prophecies of the saviour, it is still f,s,h we are talking about it in jesus, it is just more personal now and necessary for salvation since he diied and resurrected from the cross. so although history is important, salvation is even more. to answer your question, we are still talking about god when we refer to jesus.
 
Seeker_of_truth said:
I hardly ever hear God anymore in churches. It's always concentrated on Jesus. The Father is not spoken of as much as he should be in my opinion.
When a person talks about Christianity it's always "Jesus loves you" and "Jesus knows your heart". That kind of bothers me.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Should the Faither be more spoken of and praised than the Son?
Click to expand...

That must seem weird.

Jesus is even worshipped and prayed to "as God."

Consider the following list:
1) We talk to him.
2) We worship him.
3) We pray to him.
4) We honour him.
5) He is seen as a projection of the Father (John 5:19).
6) He is an image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15).

I don't disagree with behaviour #1. Nothing strange about talking to Jesus. For behaviour #4, we honour him as his followers.

Behaviours #2 and #3 sound a bit strange. "Worship" may be seen as synonymous with "honouring" him, but praying to him sounds a bit odd.

I would agree with belief #5 that he is a projection of God, and belief #6 that he is an image of the invisible God, but the Son doesn't serve the role of a "God" in accepting prayers. A projection of God cannot receive prayers.

I had to kind of figure this out. I'd been wondering for a long time why we, as Christians, prayed in Jesus name. It's a tradition that's never quite been explained properly.

The Christ is invoked in our prayers because we are his "spiritual descendents," and the privileges God bestowed on Jesus are therefore inherited by us. This is why Christians pray in Jesus name. They are Jesus' spiritual descendents and inherit his privileges in God's kingdom. We are asking to be honoured with the same privileges as our spiritual ancestor Jesus Christ.

So you can't actually "pray" to Jesus. You invoke him in your prayers to God.

When Jesus died, God honoured him with special privileges in the afterlife because of his honourable death. Christians simply ask for the same privileges when they pray in his name.

7) Jesus loves you.
8) Jesus knows your heart.

Ok, Jesus is God, but I think it's more because he is a projection of God (John 5:19 and Colossians 1:15), rather than being God in the material and corporeal sense.

My theory goes that Jesus went around leading people to God when he was physically on earth, but then he died and became the Invisible Man. So what you have is this Invisible Man who goes around looking for God's people and leading them to God. So Jesus only loves and knows you when he's actually met you and got to know you in person. Jesus didn't cease existing or cease doing the things he did 2,000 years ago. He is still meeting people, talking to people, healing the sick, comforting people, being there for people. Want to get to know someone you can't see?:)
 
Seeker_of_truth said:
I hardly ever hear God anymore in churches. It's always concentrated on Jesus. The Father is not spoken of as much as he should be in my opinion.
When a person talks about Christianity it's always "Jesus loves you" and "Jesus knows your heart". That kind of bothers me.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Should the Faither be more spoken of and praised than the Son?
Click to expand...
i think if religious leaders are sticking to the teachings of Jesus , they would be directing the flock to what Jesus said , and this is what Jesus said
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ JOHN17;3
so according to Jesus we should take in knowledge about the true God Jehovah psalm 83;18 KJV and also take in knowledge about Jesus, this would lead us to everlasting life . And Jehovah did say to listen to Jesus.
(Luke 9:35) And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him." so yes , the bible teaches us to take in knowledge about the most high Jehovah ,as Jesus said we should.
 
Seeker_of_truth said:
I hardly ever hear God anymore in churches. It's always concentrated on Jesus. The Father is not spoken of as much as he should be in my opinion.
When a person talks about Christianity it's always "Jesus loves you" and "Jesus knows your heart". That kind of bothers me.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Should the Faither be more spoken of and praised than the Son?
Click to expand...

Glorifying Jesus is glorifying the Father... Worshipping Jesus is worshipping the Father. Its by proxy.. The Father shared His glory with Jesus and Jesus does the same for us. They are equally God.. The Father The Son the Spirit... you are trying to seperate the man from the diety.. He is the God Almighty who was and is and is to come..

Romans 1:23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--

He was the incorruptible God in the flesh of a corruptible man..

The Spirit points us to Jesus and Jesus receives on behalf of the Father.. what we do in the name of Jesus is by proxy done by Jesus.. What Jesus does in the name of the Father is by proxy done by the Father.
 
Seeker_of_truth said:
I hardly ever hear God anymore in churches. It's always concentrated on Jesus. The Father is not spoken of as much as he should be in my opinion.
When a person talks about Christianity it's always "Jesus loves you" and "Jesus knows your heart". That kind of bothers me.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Should the Faither be more spoken of and praised than the Son?
Click to expand...
The warm feeling of appreciation that the divine name Jehovah should bring to our hearts should include an even more important fact—that he miraculously sent to earth his "Firstborn," "the Word," who became Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 1:6; John 1:1-3; Romans 5:6-8) In prayer to his heavenly Father, Jesus said: "I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. . . . And I have made your name known to them and will make it known." (John 17:6, 26) It was not that his followers did not already know God’s name they saw this name both in their Hebrew Bible scrolls and in the Greek Bible translation they used. But as a result of Jesus’ teaching, the name took on added meaning—just as it had done as a result of Jehovah’s acts back in Moses’ day. Jesus marvelously expanded our knowledge and appreciation of Jehovah, of his personality and of his purposes. We know Jehovah’s name in a far grander way through Jesus, who said: "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me." Jesus provided the ransom and the way of approach to the Father. Thus Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."—John 7:16; 14:6.
 
hmmm in my mind Church = Christian, Mosque = Islam, Syanagogue = Judaism, Temples could be most of the above, but in this case I think Hindu or Buddhist...

So Churches putting emphasis on Jesus...frankly it makes sense to me, as a Christian believes that the teachings of Jesus are the conduit to G-d. As Moses, Abraham and the Prophets for Jews, or Mohamed for Muslims...

Now I also hear quite a bit about G-d in the services I go to...But we do discuss quite frequently the one that leads us to G-d.
 
Saltmeister said:
That must seem weird.

Jesus is even worshipped and prayed to "as God."

Consider the following list:
1) We talk to him.
2) We worship him.
3) We pray to him.
4) We honour him.
5) He is seen as a projection of the Father (John 5:19).
6) He is an image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15).

I don't disagree with behaviour #1. Nothing strange about talking to Jesus. For behaviour #4, we honour him as his followers.

Behaviours #2 and #3 sound a bit strange. "Worship" may be seen as synonymous with "honouring" him, but praying to him sounds a bit odd.

I would agree with belief #5 that he is a projection of God, and belief #6 that he is an image of the invisible God, but the Son doesn't serve the role of a "God" in accepting prayers. A projection of God cannot receive prayers.

I had to kind of figure this out. I'd been wondering for a long time why we, as Christians, prayed in Jesus name. It's a tradition that's never quite been explained properly.

The Christ is invoked in our prayers because we are his "spiritual descendents," and the privileges God bestowed on Jesus are therefore inherited by us. This is why Christians pray in Jesus name. They are Jesus' spiritual descendents and inherit his privileges in God's kingdom. We are asking to be honoured with the same privileges as our spiritual ancestor Jesus Christ.

So you can't actually "pray" to Jesus. You invoke him in your prayers to God.

When Jesus died, God honoured him with special privileges in the afterlife because of his honourable death. Christians simply ask for the same privileges when they pray in his name.

7) Jesus loves you.
8) Jesus knows your heart.

Ok, Jesus is God, but I think it's more because he is a projection of God (John 5:19 and Colossians 1:15), rather than being God in the material and corporeal sense.

My theory goes that Jesus went around leading people to God when he was physically on earth, but then he died and became the Invisible Man. So what you have is this Invisible Man who goes around looking for God's people and leading them to God. So Jesus only loves and knows you when he's actually met you and got to know you in person. Jesus didn't cease existing or cease doing the things he did 2,000 years ago. He is still meeting people, talking to people, healing the sick, comforting people, being there for people. Want to get to know someone you can't see?:)
Click to expand...

(IMHO) The spirit of Christ is still healing the blind and raising the dead.:)
 
Saltmeister said:
I had to kind of figure this out. I'd been wondering for a long time why we, as Christians, prayed in Jesus name. It's a tradition that's never quite been explained properly.
:)
Click to expand...
John 14:13-14
And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
 
pattimax said:
BTW - I wondered too, until I started reading the bible.
Click to expand...

The point I was discussing was more to do with why we did it the way we did (the reasoning) rather than what the Bible says about it (reciting scripture to back it up).

It's one thing to quote what the Bible says -- that's it's the reason why we do it, and quite another to de-technicalise and explain in plain English why we really do it.

You could there's two ways of looking at it. One way of looking at it is to say we are "praying to the Son" in whom the Father lives, using what it says in John 14:9-14.

Another way of looking at it was to think of Christ as a guy who had really impressed God a lot by dying an honourable death and being rewarded and honoured with tons of special privileges. We are Christ's brothers and sisters and every time we pray in his name, we are asking for the same privileges that God gave Christ, our brother.

It's like us saying to God, "Remember that man Jesus Christ? We are his brothers and sisters. We need your help! We need your protection! Please don't forget what that man has done. Do him a favour by helping and protecting us."

So Jesus is like a Gold Class Citizen who didn't just receive special privileges from God. He decided to share it with his brothers and sisters. How nice of him to do that.:D

I was thinking "outside the box" when I said that. A way of de-technicalising the idea.
 
Saltmeister said:
One way of looking at it is to say we are "praying to the Son" in whom the Father lives, using what it says in John 14:9-14.

Another way of looking at it was to think of Christ as a guy who had really impressed God a lot by dying an honourable death and being rewarded and honoured with tons of special privileges. We are Christ's brothers and sisters and every time we pray in his name, we are asking for the same privileges that God gave Christ, our brother.

It's like us saying to God, "Remember that man Jesus Christ? We are his brothers and sisters. We need your help! We need your protection! Please don't forget what that man has done. Do him a favour by helping and protecting us."

I was thinking "outside the box" when I said that. A way of de-technicalising the idea.
Click to expand...
Okay. Thinking outside the box is usually good, to a point. It is just a good idea to be familiar with the box. You can usually get a balanced view.

You see, Christ was NOT just a guy who really impressed God. He is our Lord and Savior. Until that gently enters your heart, you can plead family ties until you are blue in the face, it is falling on deaf ears.

As for praying in Jesus name, that is asking the Father to intercede for you, it's simply beautiful. There really is not any need for "de-technicalising."

You will be in my prayers, pattimax:)
 
A passion for the Supremecy of Christ in everything, ought to be the goal of every chruch. However, to neglect the Father who sent the Son into the world in the first place, and the Spirit who opens our eyes to Jesus and our need for Him (Regenerates), is to not have a correct understanding of God. We must praise God for who He is: A Triune God. And we must praise Him the way scripture taught us: To the Father, in the Name of the Son, and in the power of the Spirit.
 
pattimax said:
Okay. Thinking outside the box is usually good, to a point. It is just a good idea to be familiar with the box. You can usually get a balanced view.

You see, Christ was NOT just a guy who really impressed God. He is our Lord and Savior. Until that gently enters your heart, you can plead family ties until you are blue in the face, it is falling on deaf ears.

As for praying in Jesus name, that is asking the Father to intercede for you, it's simply beautiful. There really is not any need for "de-technicalising."

You will be in my prayers, pattimax:)
Click to expand...

Outsiders may think differently.:D

Should we simply just repeat the words in the Bible and let people think we're a bunch of nuts that have allowed ourselves to be manipulated by the words? Are people's misunderstanding, opposition to, skepticism of Christianity their problem or do we try too hard to shove the words of the Bible into people's heads?

I'd also be thinking that the point of Christianity is not the Bible, but Christ. The exact words of the Bible are less important than the meaning of Christ. Christ is independent of the Bible. We don't necessarily have to express Christianity in the same way the Bible does.

Jesus existed before the New Testament was even written. The New Testament simply records the beliefs of the early Christians as expressed by Paul, Peter, James, John and Luke. What you find in John 14:9-14 was just an expression of what Jesus Christ meant to a man named John. There are a hundred other ways to say the same thing. Apart from Paul, Peter, James and John there were dozens and dozens of other people with the Spirit who never had a written record of the stories they told about Jesus. Their words have faded into dust, forgotten. Their legacy is not in a written text like the Bible, but the lives of people they touched. That is the "Bible" they wrote, the Bible hidden deep in people's hearts. A Bible not composed of words, but thoughts, feelings and sentiments. Sure, these people died a long time ago. Their beliefs were forgotten, but they died with Christ in their hearts. And they didn't even need the New Testament.

So I won't necessarily go blue in the face telling God I've got family ties with Jesus. It's just one of many different ways of conceptualising the same thing.:)

Thinking of it that way is not necessarily my personal choice, this is just for the benefit of those getting to know Christianity (if they ever ask). If getting outsiders to read the Bible doesn't work, the best bet is to explain what the Bible means to you, with some thinking "outside the box."

pattimax said:
BTW - I wondered too, until I started reading the bible.
Click to expand...

BTW -- For me it was the other way round. I read that passage in the Bible a long time ago. This idea was recent. If you're ever asked about your devotion to Jesus, getting people to take the Bible word for word doesn't always work for people. A lot of us have been through that stage where we thought simply quoting Bible verses would convince people to believe in something. That's what people call "Bible Thumpers" -- they're people who, whenever you ask them a question about Christianity, they always answer back with a Bible verse. Not all of us do that. I think sooner or later we realise that answering back with Bible verses doesn't impress people and make them think we really have a good reason for our beliefs. It just makes people think we're driven by "blind faith" or simply "brainwashed." It doesn't enlighten those non-Christian folks.

Actually, the idea isn't actually "outside the box." It's half inside and half outside the box. We are, actually, Christ's brother and sisters. We pray in his name because of our relationship with Christ. Explaining it that way would give someone a fresh look at Christianity rather than being constantly told that he's "the Son of God" or something similar.

Nevertheless, sometimes one has to be unconventional to explain Christianity to people who would otherwise be unimpressed.:)

What do you think happens when we keep saying it the same way we've been taught? People get bored listening.

Christianity allows for flexibility. We're allowed to be creative, though at the same time cautious so as to not distort its meaning.
 
Silas said:
A passion for the Supremecy of Christ in everything, ought to be the goal of every chruch. However, to neglect the Father who sent the Son into the world in the first place, and the Spirit who opens our eyes to Jesus and our need for Him (Regenerates), is to not have a correct understanding of God. We must praise God for who He is: A Triune God. And we must praise Him the way scripture taught us: To the Father, in the Name of the Son, and in the power of the Spirit.
Click to expand...
:)
 
Saltmeister said:
Outsiders may think differently.:D
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Well, they are wrong. You will still be in my prayers.

The Bible is NOT just a record. It is Gods written word to us and a book of transformation to a receptive heart. But we don't change just because we read it, it isn't mechanical. It's the HEART.

The key to a receptive heart is an understanding mind, not an argumentative mind. (or heart for that matter) I approach God's Word with trust in His word. I have total confidence in Him.

You are free to think you can be a Christian without having knowledge of what the bible is or isn't.

sincerely, pattimax

p.s. I put the box in the recycle bin.
 
What are your thoughts on the matter?

Well I suppose we have to take into account what denimination, and where...

Generally, as a Catholic, my concern is for the lack of the sense of Mystery – the Mass is a Sacred Rite – and I think there is a risk of 'dumbing down' for the sake of ecumenical outreach.

In the same vein, and along the lines of the original post, I see Christianity being reduced to a set of ethics bathed in some pseudo-mystical glow – I think my post on The Good Samaritan highlighted aspects of that for me – the mystical aspect was largely ignored in the discussion, which favoured ethics and personal morality.

This is a result of the trend of Western culture over the last few hundred years – I would trace it to the Reformation, at which point the Mystery began to be rationalised and explained away – God became present only in an abstract sense.

Thomas
 
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