**Before I get into this, I'd like to ask that the Christians who read this pray that you may not be lead into lies of the enemy and thus lead away by false doctrines. Moreover, pray that God would give us grace to speak without aruging on this very tough subject. Finally, pray that you would understand "man apart from Christ" and how utterly wicked and totally depraved he is. I dont expect non-Christians to believe that man is inherently wicked, but I would like to ask you to read this anyway. God's words have a way of having an effect on people. What all that said, lets get into election!** Does man choose God or does God choose man? Let us get into God's words and see what He has to say about Election. My hopes in this tread is that we can debate using scripture alone (not assumptions or conjecture) and stay within the topic at hand. My question is concerning the basis of election - is it on foreseen faith or wholly by grace, insomuch that God looked upon an equally wicked sinner and chosen in and of His own free will - speaking of God here - to sovereigenly save one sinner over another? For those who opt for free will, I'd like to know how you explain the following. I will use three scriptures to build my argument: "Truly, Truly, I say unto you, anyone who commits sin, is a slave to sin" "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned" (1Cor 2:14). "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot" (Romans 8:7). Question: How can a man who is already a slave to sin (John 8:34), who is in the flesh and cannot even understand the spiritual things of God, namely, to believe the gospel (1 Cor. 2:14), and who is hostile to God (since he loves darkness rather than light) and cannot submit to God's laws (Romans 8:7), choose within himself to keep the highest law - namely, to glorify God and please Him by denying self and following after Christ? Note: Just so you will not assume anything else from me, let me make myself clear. I do agree that man is responsible for his sin, has a obligation to repent and come to Christ, has a will and is not a robot, etc. I only believe that man's will is willingly enslaved to sin and therefore he freely chooses that which is in his nature to choose - sin.