Santa Claus exists?

Discussion in 'Alternative' started by moseslmpg, Dec 25, 2006.

  1. moseslmpg

    moseslmpg Member

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    Well, first of all, I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this thread. I'm not trying to imply anything, if that's what anyone thinks. Secondly, I don't mean physically existing, I mean daimonically existing. It's some kind of crazy, fringe Chaos magick mixed with daimonic reality and general "occult" stuff. Stick with me.

    Anyway, isn't Santa Claus just the world's most powerful egregore? I mean, presumably with the belief of millions of children worldwide is enough to create one. Perhaps all the hubbub about the 12 days of Christmas is to get the "practitioners" into the mood for the actual ritual. The dressing of the tree, watching the same old movies over again, hanging stockings, etc. It puts people in a different state of mind, that is perhaps more receptive to the influence of this egregore.

    This is how I think of it: First, there was old Saint Nicholas who used to give out candy and whatnot to people while he was alive. I believe he was called Sinterklaas in this role. So eventually this guy dies, right? But to keep the spirit alive, people convince their children that this Santa Claus fellow has an objective, concrete existence in our physical reality.

    Then, with Coke's reinvention of the character and subsequent revisions of the "story" behind him, we get a large amount of lore to refer to, so we effectively have an egregore or some kind of thought form that has a "history" behind it. With this, we have something to refer to and assimilate into our pre-Christmas preparations, so as to get in the right mental frame to allow ourselves to be influenced by Santa Claus.

    Then, you have the letters and the milk and cookies the night before he comes. The letters, of course, are the statement of intent which one consciously creates but then sends off, so that it is relegated to the subconscious and consequently the Santa egregore. The milk and cookies can be seen as either a traditional offering or entreaty to the entity, or perhaps something to allow it to manifest itself in some way. I'm thinking the former, as I doubt milk and cookies have much etheric energy; maybe the milk does, but the cookies wouldn't.

    Lastly, you have the actual work of the egregore itself. Considering that it is physically impossible for 1 man to go across the world and down chimneys, and also to know if everyone is naughty or nice without being a dirty old bastard, I imagine that the egregore extends its influence on a mental level to all households that have allowed themselves to be receptive to it. Thus, in the middle of the night the "parents,"
    "significant others," or "random person" sneaks over to the tree and lays out the Santa Claus presents, under the influence of the Santa egregore itself. Since the egregore is trying to keep itself alive, it thus perpetuates belief in itself through these means. I imagine that in the time up to the actual Christmas day, that the egregore grows in strength and thus it influences people in such ways before the actual event.

    OK, that's it. I don't know much about egregores, or magick, or anything like that. I don't know if someone has already posted this either, but anyways, at least when little kids ask you whether Santa exists or not, you can now direct them to this post for clarification. A reading of Patrick Harpur's Daimonic Reality wouldn't hurt the little whippersnappers either.
     
  2. moseslmpg

    moseslmpg Member

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    Also, the noises on the roof are possibly the sign of presence of Santa Claus at the house. Sort of like the sign that a thought form can be "programmed" to give upon execution of its role.
     
  3. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    bump for the holidays
     
  4. Will be

    Will be New Member

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    "hic!" "up?"
     
  5. nativeastral

    nativeastral fluffy future

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    only the reindeer gets a bit of carrot in our house
     
  6. Rev. Powell

    Rev. Powell New Member

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    Santa Claus was a real person, and if we can learn something from hs example, sure. He's real enough.

    Nicholas was the Orthodox Bishop of Myra, Greece. The short version of his account is that he once recieved a large inheritence, and since he didn't need the money, being paid to be a bishop, he sent his tithe of it upstream and divided the rest as gifts to 3 local single mothers he knew. He put the 3 prizes in 3 bags, and slipped them into the 3 houses through what open or unlocked windows he could, and hence delivered the gifts of gold and silver coins.

    Myra was a small town, the good Rt. Rev. was spotted, and word spread. After that, anonymous gifts were often attributed to Bishop Nicholas, and the rest is history.

    "Sinta Klaus" was a German variant of his name, acknowledging him as having been, by then, canonized as a saint.

    So yes, I believe in Santa Claus. :)

    Rev. Powell
    Church of Interfaith Christians
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Namaste and Welcome Rev. Powell,

    Me too, I believe. I believe in the spirit of Santa Claus. And I can tell that to any child or adult.

    Although I do have issues with it starting before halloween and being all about getting..and...and...and...

    But the rest of it, I'm right there!

    I look forward to seeing you around the boards...
     
  8. Will be

    Will be New Member

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    He ate well too, or too well. But was he a vegetarian?

    Carrots, carrots, please carrots!!!

    Lucky deers. Muncho buncho puncho...

    Polly wanna a qwacker? Just say "jes, Polly want a ___."
     
  9. Rev. Powell

    Rev. Powell New Member

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    Hayah b'rok [Heb. "be blessed"], and thank you, wil... and Will Be... and everyone... I was drawn in by the Santa Claus question... I love everything he stands for, and commercialism isn't it... but now that I'm here, I see that there's a lot more to this board. I look forward to exploring it. :)

     
  10. Rev. Powell

    Rev. Powell New Member

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    I don't know whether St. Nick was a vegetarian or not. I've never run across anything authoritative on that subject one way or the other.
     
  11. Rev. Powell

    Rev. Powell New Member

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    Thanks very much for the welcome. I was drawn in by the Santa Claus question, but I see that there's a lot more to this board. :)
     
  12. Rev. Powell

    Rev. Powell New Member

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    wil, Vicki is my wife. We were in Reno, but now we're in Arkansas. Sorry, but I can't answer your PM until I post a few more times publically.
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Ah Reno a city so close to Hell you can see Sparks!

    But yes Santa and his spirit make their presence known in the biggest little city in the world too.

    Traded earthquakes and rattlers for tornadoes and chiggers?
     
  14. Rev. Powell

    Rev. Powell New Member

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    No, we're not close enough to Georgia for chiggers.
     
  15. bgruagach

    bgruagach eclectic Wiccan

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    Those interested in the history of the Santa Claus myth might enjoy reading "Santa Claus, Last of the Wild Men: The Origins and Evolution of Saint Nicholas, Spanning 50,000 Years" by Phyllis Siefker. It points out that Santa Claus, under one name or another, has existed well before the time of the historical Orthodox Bishop of Myra.

    (There are other works that discuss the pre-Christian origins of Santa Claus -- this one is a relatively recent book that is easily available.)
     
  16. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    http://www.interfaith.org/forum/santa-theory-3858-3.html

    Here's a link to an older thread that carries out bgruagach's thoughts. Also, a look at the thread tags (towards the bottom of the posts) for Santa Claus, Wild man tradition and Mummer's Plays will bring up a few more discussions we had previously on this subject. Not to derail, by all means please continue...
     
  17. Will be

    Will be New Member

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    Look! Up in the air!

    Is it a bird!?

    Is it a plane!?

    No, it's April. Oh. No clue who then.
     
  18. holysmoke

    holysmoke New Member

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    Here's a new take on Santa Claus as the annual spiritual embodiment of EL, God Most High. The Journey of EL and Asherah, from ancient Canaan to modern times..
     
  19. DrDeb

    DrDeb Interfaith Examiner

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    I love the creativity of your post, congratulations!

    If we accept that Santa is indeed an egregore, then I'm wondering what happens when children find out the truth about Santa? Maybe the egregore is really *God* (the "man in the sky" image of God) and Santa is an aspect of that egregore through the eyes of children, which evolves to a very similar concept of an old paternal saintly God who gives us toys if we're nice and gives us coal/fire/brimstone if we're naughty. Maybe it's all the same egregore -- what do you all think?
     
  20. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Welcome to InterFaith, DrDeb.

    Yours is an intriguing consideration. From my perspective I feel the proof, such as it is, is in the pudding. Miracles in people's lives I have seen brought about through appeal to G-d, I have yet to see anything comparable brought about by Santa Claus...although I can see how the illusion of "getting what we want by being good" can seemingly compare.

    In other words, I can see similarity from a purely mythical POV, but from a practical and experiential POV the two are world's apart. In my opinion. :)
     

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