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Silas
Guest
How did the people in the Old Testament get saved? What is the answer from scripture?
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
their faith in God was accounted to them as righteousness.
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Silas
Guest
faith in what sis?
Dondi
Well-Known Member
They had the same faith as Abraham.
"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness....
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness." - Romans 4:1-3, 20-22
But this was the problem with some of Israel under Moses:
"For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." - Hebrews 3:16-19
To which Paul, assuming he wrote Hebrews, exhorts:
"Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." - Hebrews 4:1-2
"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness....
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness." - Romans 4:1-3, 20-22
But this was the problem with some of Israel under Moses:
"For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." - Hebrews 3:16-19
To which Paul, assuming he wrote Hebrews, exhorts:
"Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." - Hebrews 4:1-2
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Silas
Guest
I dont know if Paul wrote Hebrews and I find it interesting that God wouldnt allow us to know (at least not yet). That said, Im just trying to flush an idea out and I need Christian's help to do it. So, am I right to say that the people in the OT and the people in the NT get saved the same way, namely through faith? The people in the OT believed the promise to come and the people in the NT believed the promise that did come, which of course is Jesus, and all of them who trust in Him are saved? Is that how you guys understand it? Thats how I do, but I want to make sure that I'm understanding it correctly.
Dondi
Well-Known Member
The Jews had the faith of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to save them. Later, when the sacrificial system of blood and burnt offerings were instituted through the Law of Moses, they were atoned for their sins, kept under that faith until Christ was revealed. The Law was for Israel, to preserve Israel until Jesus came out of the line of Judah. Otherwise, sin would have descrated Israel. They might not have known about Jesus, but they believed in God nonetheless for their salvation.
The emphasis has alway been obedience to God, as in Deuteronomy 28. There were blessings for righteous obedience, cursings for disobedience. All Christ did was to remove the penalty of the curse. But the blessings for obedience still remained. For obedience is the show of love toward God (John 14:21).
We have a new commandment, to love one another as Christ loved us and gave himself for us. But it really isn't new, is it? For God still wants us to love Him with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength and love our neighbor as ourselves. The difference is that we have the means to do it through His Spirit.
The emphasis has alway been obedience to God, as in Deuteronomy 28. There were blessings for righteous obedience, cursings for disobedience. All Christ did was to remove the penalty of the curse. But the blessings for obedience still remained. For obedience is the show of love toward God (John 14:21).
We have a new commandment, to love one another as Christ loved us and gave himself for us. But it really isn't new, is it? For God still wants us to love Him with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength and love our neighbor as ourselves. The difference is that we have the means to do it through His Spirit.
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Silas
Guest
The Almakites, Jebusites, and all the other heathens believed in God. Many times in scripture we see these pagan people admiting that the God of the Jews is the true God. Why werent their faith counted as righteousness? Also, I trust you read the OT. Have you saw of any of God's people, even those privilaged to have walked with God in special ways, that was always obedient to the old covernantal laws? I dont. In fact, I see the opposite being true. I think that is why the writter of Hebrews tells us that the new covernant was inacted, namely because when the perfect laws of God was met with man's hard heart, they couldnt keep it. The new covernant is great because God says that "he will change our stoney hearts and give us hearts of flesh, that he will put his spirit in us and cause us to keep His laws and observe his statues, and that he will cause us to fear Him that we will never leave Him."
M
mee
Guest
listening to the right channel and acting on the instructions given.
Moses was the man Jehovah used in 1513 B.C.E and listening to Noah and getting into the ark would have saved people in Noahs day , but as we all know they did not believe what Noah said about a flood coming. it is only by listening to the right channel from God that they could be saved but they didnt want it in noahs time did they?
Moses was the man Jehovah used in 1513 B.C.E and listening to Noah and getting into the ark would have saved people in Noahs day , but as we all know they did not believe what Noah said about a flood coming. it is only by listening to the right channel from God that they could be saved but they didnt want it in noahs time did they?
The OT is clear that the "saints" in the times of the OT are saved by Grace and faith in the coming Redeemer. They died trusting the promise made to them by God. Scripture also shows they knew Christ (if not in whole, then in part...which was good enough for them to believe on the promise of salvation made to them).
And I believe this sums the truth of salvation up best for those in the OT times:
Heb 11:32-40 "And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again. And others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented; of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us."
v/r
Joshua
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Silas
Guest
That is very good stuff, Josh!! So then, Christ died for as an atoning scarifice for all of the people in the Old Testament too, right?
Indeed, this is the case accordance with OT and NT scriptures on the subject.
v/r
Joshus
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Silas
Guest
How then do you understand 1 Sam 3:14? "Therefore I swear to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever." Did Christ die for Eli's sons and Eli's house?