Music and Worship

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Prober

Give Us This Day...
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When I was a kid, my favorite part of church was the music. I remember staring up through the stained glass windows, my brain lit up with sound!

Thinking "heaven must have great music".

How important is music (or sound) in your thoughts of worship or meditation?
 
OOh I love this question! Worship is my favorite part of church and after some investigating... I know why

go to crosswalk and do a search of all the places "sing" and you can see why...it pleases Him.

Eph 5:19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord

Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.


 
I always hated church, but I loved the pipe organ music. I've still got a serious thing for pipe organ music.

Chris
 
I love Gregorian Chant- helps me to relax and focus.

Organ music I always find very stirring and it quickens my pulse.

Hymns and Carols and Psalms-bore me... (sorry, but they do)
 
I attended a pentacostal church for a short while. They had a thumpin' band, and everyone would just get down with the Holy Spirit. There would be people dancing in the aisles. It was great! I'd never experienced anything like that before. Talk about some serious praise, they had it going on!

Chris
 
In most Protestant churches, the music directors are considered to be members of the clergy. That's a pretty important part of the institution.

flow....:)
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I attended a pentacostal church for a short while. They had a thumpin' band, and everyone would just get down with the Holy Spirit. There would be people dancing in the aisles. It was great! I'd never experienced anything like that before. Talk about some serious praise, they had it going on!

Chris
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Hey Chris
I'm crurious about this, well actually I'm downright skeptical. What makes you think it was the Holy Spirit they were getting down with?
 
cavalier said:
Hey Chris
I'm crurious about this, well actually I'm downright skeptical. What makes you think it was the Holy Spirit they were getting down with?
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I dunno, figure of speech maybe, but that's how they felt about it, and to tell you the truth I felt it too.

Chris
 
Faithfulservant said:
If you've never felt it you wouldnt understand.. if you have you wouldnt question it ever again.
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Come on, an answer like that will do nothing other than strengthen my skepticism.
No.1, I have been in several different churches on several different occasions when people have been "moved by the spirit". On many occasions what I witnessed, what I felt, was pretensiousness and the effects of crowd mentality. On one occasion I witnessed something that I felt to be a little darker.
No.2, As humans we are able to fool ourselves into believing many things. If people in certain churches want to believe they are getting down with the Holy Spirit* then they will be able to make themselves believe that. I am sure that this is especially true in churches where, 1) the congregation is encouraged, actively or passively, to dance in the aisles, faint, or be overcome by a sudden urge to sit down pray, and 2) those who do not engage in this kind of behavior are looked down upon as second class Christians.


*Though I am using Chris's words, I am not calling into question his experience in his pentecostal church. I was not there and, even if I was, would have no right to do so.
 
I am not a member of a pentecostal church. Theres a book by Chuck Smith called Charisma vs Charismania.. It does a really good job of answering this very issue for some people.

My only other way of explaining this is that when the Jewish High Priest would enter the holy of holies to sacrifice for the sins of Israel..that High Priest experienced the presence of the Lord.. the glory of the Lord is in that inner temple... When a person is born again and baptized by the Spirit of God they experience that very same thing because they are given entrance into the holy of holies which is becoming that inner temple of God. God resides in you with that baptism and when a congregation of believers is in heartfelt sincere worship of Jesus Christ.. the Lords presence is among them its basically the more the merrier because when 2 or more are gathered in His name He IS among them. The only thing I can say is if someone is not feeling it and others are feeling it.. I would question ask myself why.
 
Faithfulservant said:
I am not a member of a pentecostal church. Theres a book by Chuck Smith called Charisma vs Charismania.. It does a really good job of answering this very issue for some people.

My only other way of explaining this is that when the Jewish High Priest would enter the holy of holies to sacrifice for the sins of Israel..that High Priest experienced the presence of the Lord.. the glory of the Lord is in that inner temple... When a person is born again and baptized by the Spirit of God they experience that very same thing because they are given entrance into the holy of holies which is becoming that inner temple of God. God resides in you with that baptism and when a congregation of believers is in heartfelt sincere worship of Jesus Christ.. the Lords presence is among them its basically the more the merrier because when 2 or more are gathered in His name He IS among them. The only thing I can say is if someone is not feeling it and others are feeling it.. I would question ask myself why.
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Exactly. I'm sure many others would also ask themselves why, and some, scared of the possible answer, might make themselves feel it.

BTW I never claimed that you were a member of a pentecostal church, neither were the examples I gave in any way exclusive to pentecostal churches.
 
Hey Cav,

You ever get that 2 o'clock in the morning, massive realization thing? That moment when something you've been pondering gels and you have that prickly necked AHA! feeling? Like you know you've grasped a golden nugget of truth, and the proof is that certain kind of giddy feeling of gut assured "rightness". That's kinda how it feels getting swept up in a big "praise" fest. Sure, it's crowd dynamics. People feeding off of each other's emotional rush, and it swirls and builds. But it feels GREAT! It feels like you release your burden and walk out much lighter. Makes you fell like a kid with new sneakers. It feels like the two O'clock thing, only bigger and warmer, probably because you're sharing everyone else's energy. And I was playing trumpet in the band, so I was toatlly catching the groove!

Anyway, I stopped going to the Penacostal church because I moved away, and because they really preached some junk theology. But I haven't forgotten the good feeling, and I have lovely memories of some of the lovliest people I've ever met. Man, the after church potlucks were out of this world!

Chris
 
Hey Chris

I certainly remember being a kid bouncing down the road in my new sneakers, and yes, it sure did feel good.
My point of contention though isn't, and has never been, what the feeling is, just whether its attributable to the Holy Spirit.
Since people of other faiths also experience these great, religiously based highs, can they all be a result of the Holy Spirit? Possibly you would say yes (I don't know), that all religions lead, or can lead, to the same God. Many though do not hold this view, many believe that Christianity is the only way. I have a problem with people like this using these experiences as some kind of validation of their religion, while at the same denying similar experiences in those of other religions. I have a problem with it because it's just a weak argument. Either the experiences of those in other religions are valid which would suggest that Christianity isn't the only path to God (or isn't a path to God at all), or they are not valid, but if they are not then questions have to asked of the experiences of Christians also.
 
cavalier said:
Hey Chris

I certainly remember being a kid bouncing down the road in my new sneakers, and yes, it sure did feel good.
My point of contention though isn't, and has never been, what the feeling is, just whether its attributable to the Holy Spirit.
Since people of other faiths also experience these great, religiously based highs, can they all be a result of the Holy Spirit? Possibly you would say yes (I don't know), that all religions lead, or can lead, to the same God. Many though do not hold this view, many believe that Christianity is the only way. I have a problem with people like this using these experiences as some kind of validation of their religion, while at the same denying similar experiences in those of other religions. I have a problem with it because it's just a weak argument. Either the experiences of those in other religions are valid which would suggest that Christianity isn't the only path to God (or isn't a path to God at all), or they are not valid, but if they are not then questions have to asked of the experiences of Christians also.
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I agree with you cav.. Emotional experiences with God are questionable.. We arent supposed to let our emotions rule our relationship with God because that would be allowing your carnal self lead the show. Ypi cant deny it though when you feel the joy the Lord bestows on those He blesses. There is a difference between being on a spiritual "High" and being blessed with His presence. Im sorry I cant explain it.
 
cavalier said:
Hey Chris

I certainly remember being a kid bouncing down the road in my new sneakers, and yes, it sure did feel good.
My point of contention though isn't, and has never been, what the feeling is, just whether its attributable to the Holy Spirit.
Since people of other faiths also experience these great, religiously based highs, can they all be a result of the Holy Spirit? Possibly you would say yes (I don't know), that all religions lead, or can lead, to the same God. Many though do not hold this view, many believe that Christianity is the only way. I have a problem with people like this using these experiences as some kind of validation of their religion, while at the same denying similar experiences in those of other religions. I have a problem with it because it's just a weak argument. Either the experiences of those in other religions are valid which would suggest that Christianity isn't the only path to God (or isn't a path to God at all), or they are not valid, but if they are not then questions have to asked of the experiences of Christians also.
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I was kinda thinking, from a tourist perspective mostly, that it isn't any different. I think that because Christianity is close to home I dismiss it. I always find foreign cultures more interesting than my own just because they're exotic and different. I don't wonder , say, whether some ecstatic Hare Krishna festival participants are gettin' down with the real Krishna spirit. It would never even occur to me to question it. If the people in either circumstance are having a good time with their cultural thing, then I think it must be the same kind of good spirit thing. But I think that each group has a particular kind of mojo that goes into their thing, so I wouldn't say that Krishna Spirit and Holy Spirit are the same.

Chris
 
Faithfulservant said:
I agree with you cav.. Emotional experiences with God are questionable.. We arent supposed to let our emotions rule our relationship with God because that would be allowing your carnal self lead the show. Ypi cant deny it though when you feel the joy the Lord bestows on those He blesses. There is a difference between being on a spiritual "High" and being blessed with His presence. Im sorry I cant explain it.
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Ok, fair enough. I guess we've both stated our cases. Sorry to say that I remain skeptical, but I do like what you've written here and see nothing bad in the fact that you can't explain. Like you said in an earlier post, either I know what talking about, or I don't.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I was kinda thinking, from a tourist perspective mostly, that it isn't any different. I think that because Christianity is close to home I dismiss it. I always find foreign cultures more interesting than my own just because they're exotic and different. I don't wonder , say, whether some ecstatic Hare Krishna festival participants are gettin' down with the real Krishna spirit. It would never even occur to me to question it. If the people in either circumstance are having a good time with their cultural thing, then I think it must be the same kind of good spirit thing. But I think that each group has a particular kind of mojo that goes into their thing, so I wouldn't say that Krishna Spirit and Holy Spirit are the same.

Chris
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Ok, I guess my post was, not for the first time, badly worded.
Maybe you would not question people from other religions but many would. Certainly the Christians I grew up with would say that they were either deluded, or were being fooled by the devil. My point would be that if this accusation could be levelled at other religions, it could also be levelled at Christianity.
 
cavalier said:
Ok, I guess my post was, not for the first time, badly worded.
Click to expand...

Me too. What I was trying to say is...imagine you're some whirling dervish dude observing a Pentacostal revival. It's as weird looking to him as he would be to the charismatic Christian dude. Maybe he's not thinking, "isn't it a pity they're lost, I'm so glad I'm not" like the Christian, but he's still got some conception that this singing and praising, and running around saying hallelujah is strange, and maybe inferior to what he does with his whirling thing, which makes perfect sense, and seems quite normal to him.

It seems to me that it's easy to criticize Christianity because it's so close. It's hard to see it as weird and wonderful the way we can easily see something foreign and different, by virtue of the distance between that and us. I know any number of ex-Christians who have nothing but disdain for Christianity, but are gaga for anything with a hint of eastern flavor. Christian folks are ignorant hicks, but Tibetans who put colorful caps on their kids heads so the evil spirits will mistake them for flowers are ever so highly advanced. We're so darn enamoured of the touristy stuff, and so jaded and judgemental when it comes to our own ethnic religion.

Chris
 
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