A hard question...Probably?

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Silas

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I thought of the following question a lot and was wondering if any of you may have an answer. Here's the question:

Why did God allow a person to be born whom He already foreknows will not repent and come to faith in Jesus?
 
Silas said:
I thought of the following question a lot and was wondering if any of you may have an answer. Here's the question:

Why did God allow a person to be born whom He already foreknows will not repent and come to faith in Jesus?
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He allows people to be born because he loves us, and he is the God of the living. He already foreknows because God is outside our time and knows all things from beginning to end. Will not repent. Whether or not god tests us, we make the choice to believe or not, to do good or evil, to glorify him or curse him.
 
Silas said:
Why did God allow a person to be born whom He already foreknows will not repent and come to faith in Jesus?
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Before Jesus was born into this world did anyone repent and come into faith in Jesus?

I find that it is when someone sins, repents, sins, repents, sins, repents, time after time that it can really start to test one's patience. A repeat offender kind of like an alcoholic that dives on the bottle, gets into trouble, asks for forgiveness, and then does it again... time after time.
 
Silas said:
I thought of the following question a lot and was wondering if any of you may have an answer. Here's the question:

Why did God allow a person to be born whom He already foreknows will not repent and come to faith in Jesus?
Click to expand...
My family all firmly believe in predestination, so that's a question I've asked many times. Only thing is, due to me moving to the other side of the world, I haven't asked it for a long time. I'll try to remember the answer they gave me.

We have a problem with that question because we put ourselves, as humans, at the center of everything. We shouldn't, The Bible states clearly that Christ is the center, and the purpose for everything. Actually, not just Christ, but Christ's glory. Our creation, everything that has been done, has been done to glorify Christ. The greatest glorification that Christ could receive would be as a Savior. For this to be possible he would need people to save, this necessitates the fall of man. From here it is possible that some will be eternally damned.
Couldn't God make it so that everyone would hear and answer the message of the gospel? That none would be damned? Well no, this would be changing the rules the game, if everyone is going to be saved anyway then this would make Christ's sacrifice at Calvary into an irrelevance. He would no longer actually be our savior.
Why does God create some people knowing they will be damned? It is necessary for the glorification of Christ as our savior.
 
cavalier said:
My family all firmly believe in predestination, so that's a question I've asked many times. Only thing is, due to me moving to the other side of the world, I haven't asked it for a long time. I'll try to remember the answer they gave me.

We have a problem with that question because we put ourselves, as humans, at the center of everything. We shouldn't, The Bible states clearly that Christ is the center, and the purpose for everything. Actually, not just Christ, but Christ's glory. Our creation, everything that has been done, has been done to glorify Christ. The greatest glorification that Christ could receive would be as a Savior. For this to be possible he would need people to save, this necessitates the fall of man. From here it is possible that some will be eternally damned.
Couldn't God make it so that everyone would hear and answer the message of the gospel? That none would be damned? Well no, this would be changing the rules the game, if everyone is going to be saved anyway then this would make Christ's sacrifice at Calvary into an irrelevance. He would no longer actually be our savior.
Why does God create some people knowing they will be damned? It is necessary for the glorification of Christ as our savior.
Click to expand...

That is a quaint answer. You said that the greatest glorification is that Christ would be recieved as Savior, so God set it up so that man would fall and thus there would be people to save. Basically, you are saying that man was created to fall. I have to disagree. Man was made to glorify God. But in order for man to truly glorify God, and therefore God receiving the glory, man would have to be made in such as was that that glory is not coerced. If God didn't make man with a freewill to do so, in the beginning mind you, then and glory God receives from man would be automatic, much like the angel's glory. But that is the fundamental difference between man and angels is that we have the will to choose. In the beginning, Adam and Eve had a choice to glorify God, and they would have glorified God from then on and forever, if they ate of the right tree (tree of life), but instead that ended up disobeying God by eating of the forbidden tree.

"...to obey is better than sacrifice..." - I Samuel 15:22 That had always been the desire of God for man. For to obey God is to love God (John 14:21). It has always been about obedience. The only reason that Jesus entered the picture is for the sacrifice part, which is not God's preference. I'm not belittling Jesus' sacrifice in any way, for as of now, He is the way to God, but the whole reason for that sacrifice is so that we could be conformed into His image... the same image Adam had in a reflection of God in the beginning ("Let us make man in our image" - Gen. 1:26). But of course, Adam lost that.

God gets the glory through our obedience to him, subjects that will submit to his will.
 
Silas said:
I thought of the following question a lot and was wondering if any of you may have an answer. Here's the question:

Why did God allow a person to be born whom He already foreknows will not repent and come to faith in Jesus?
Click to expand...

Well from the book of the bible it shows he knows everything and so on... So it's pretty pointless IF he created mankind what is the point in making the majority that will forever oppose him and never accept him.... Then again, with some christian ways saying there is this "end of days" theory... What is he waiting for? Bring all this crap to an end, stop the killing, war, poverty, hunger and so on....

It says in that book words are nothing unless they are put to work? Well why doesn't your god do the same? That is all that book is, a book... Just words.. No action. Instead of just text... Do something... Then maybe you would gain more respect and faith...
 
17th Angel said:
Well from the book of the bible it shows he knows everything and so on... So it's pretty pointless IF he created mankind what is the point in making the majority that will forever oppose him and never accept him.... Then again, with some christian ways saying there is this "end of days" theory... What is he waiting for? Bring all this crap to an end, stop the killing, war, poverty, hunger and so on....

It says in that book words are nothing unless they are put to work? Well why doesn't your god do the same? That is all that book is, a book... Just words.. No action. Instead of just text... Do something... Then maybe you would gain more respect and faith...
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II Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
II Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
II Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
II Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
II Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
II Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
II Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
II Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
II Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? II Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

trust God when i say this, i was an atheist once, it got me no where. the world is an illusion. a big lie. i hope you can understand that. everything distracts us. tv, videogames, INTERNET!,etc. all of this, is just temporary, man. Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand.
 
It got you no where?

Where are you now?

ANYWAY! Sticking to the topic.... Those actions apparently happened... There is no proof... Just what this book says... Where is your eye witnesses?

I could grab any book in my library.. And say it is based on real events because the book says so.. That doesn't cut it as evidence. I think your god should show/proove himself. IF he is there, then I am sure that would change many of these born agaisnt him, to join him...
 
17th Angel said:
It got you no where?

Where are you now?

ANYWAY! Sticking to the topic.... Those actions apparently happened... There is no proof... Just what this book says... Where is your eye witnesses?

I could grab any book in my library.. And say it is based on real events because the book says so.. That doesn't cut it as evidence. I think your god should show/proove himself. IF he is there, then I am sure that would change many of these born agaisnt him, to join him...
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look, i know there isn't scientific proof, but look around you and within yourself. notice how the birds migrate at an appointed time, how the planets rotate in such an orderly fashion, how a tree bares fruit at a certain time of season, how your heart beats within you without your will but HIS will. i can go on and on about His works. they are innumerable. point being, you need to ask yourself, if you were to behold God right now, in front of you, would you actually have a change of heart? i think you would, for a awhile only. then the hard part comes in. the temptation of going back to your old past. then slowly but surely you revert back to your old self. i hope you have a bible because in it is Psalm 78. read it. it summarizes what happened in the book of Exodus. the Jewish saw God and his works right in front of them, and they still didn't have a change of heart. why? because they couldn't let go of the past they had in Egypt. i pray to God that you can see this. i hope to hear from you soon...
 
cyberpi said:
Before Jesus was born into this world did anyone repent and come into faith in Jesus?

quote]

Yes. The OT saints were saved as the NT saint and onward, namely through faith in the promise. The OT saints believed in the promised to come and the NT saints, as well as us today, believe in the promise that came - vis - Yeshu'a Ha Masheck (Jesus the Messiah).
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17th Angel said:
I personally wouldn't change, I would certainly try and haggle with him lol... But I mean in general... Most of the people that the question is saying will not change, I am pretty sure would.
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lets pray to God that they would change, my friend. lets pray that their heart softens.
 
cavalier said:
My family all firmly believe in predestination, so that's a question I've asked many times. Only thing is, due to me moving to the other side of the world, I haven't asked it for a long time. I'll try to remember the answer they gave me.

We have a problem with that question because we put ourselves, as humans, at the center of everything. We shouldn't, The Bible states clearly that Christ is the center, and the purpose for everything. Actually, not just Christ, but Christ's glory. Our creation, everything that has been done, has been done to glorify Christ. The greatest glorification that Christ could receive would be as a Savior. For this to be possible he would need people to save, this necessitates the fall of man. From here it is possible that some will be eternally damned.Couldn't God make it so that everyone would hear and answer the message of the gospel? That none would be damned? Well no, this would be changing the rules the game, if everyone is going to be saved anyway then this would make Christ's sacrifice at Calvary into an irrelevance. He would no longer actually be our savior.Why does God create some people knowing they will be damned? It is necessary for the glorification of Christ as our savior.
Click to expand...

I love your family and I agree with them whole heartedly; especially the red parts. I thought about the following scripture as I asked my question..."the Lord has made everything, even the wicked for the day of destruction" (Proverb 16:4). Furthermore, since all things are made for God's Glory, we will either glorify God by being saved to the glory of His marvelous grace, or people will go to hell to the praise of His most holy Justice. I pray that God would give you grace to see beauty in Christ when your family speaks of Him.
 
Dondi said:
That is a quaint answer.
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Well hello to you too.
Dondi said:
You said that the greatest glorification is that Christ would be recieved as Savior, so God set it up so that man would fall and thus there would be people to save. Basically, you are saying that man was created to fall. I have to disagree. Man was made to glorify God. But in order for man to truly glorify God, and therefore God receiving the glory, man would have to be made in such as was that that glory is not coerced. If God didn't make man with a freewill to do so, in the beginning mind you, then and glory God receives from man would be automatic, much like the angel's glory.
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There is a flaw in this logic. Firstly, after the fall of mankind, our obeying God would by no means be automatic, not if we hold to free will (and the argument I gave did). Secondly, free will later does not make free will from the beginning essential.
 
Silas said:
I love your family and I agree with them whole heartedly; especially the red parts. I thought about the following scripture as I asked my question..."the Lord has made everything, even the wicked for the day of destruction" (Proverb 16:4). Furthermore, since all things are made for God's Glory, we will either glorify God by being saved to the glory of His marvelous grace, or people will go to hell to the praise of His most holy Justice.
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While I've never liked this concept, I'm starting to understand that what I see as disgusting is really just a misconception. Being just a guy, I necessarily don't understand the ways of God, or see the full picture.
Silas said:
I pray that God would give you grace to see beauty in Christ when your family speaks of Him.
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I think our beliefs are very different, but thank you all the same.
 
That was very gracious of you C! Thanks and catch you on another thread.
 
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