Baha'i Faith & Freemasonry...

Discussion in 'Baha'i' started by Ziriel, May 1, 2007.

  1. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    Philosophically the best features of Masonry reflect many of the religious principles and teachings of the Baha`i Faith. That's no coincidence. The Baha`i Faith teaches very high moral conduct--so did Islam and Christianity.

    Any high-minded fellowship is going to reflect many of those same principloes and teachings.

    That they are similar in that regard, does not, however, indicate a causal relationship between Freemasonry and Baha`u'llah.

    As Abdu'l Baha points out, a person who exemplifies the best aspects of filial love for humanity and works to unite mankind is a Baha`i whether they have ever heard the name of Baha`u'llah or not.

    Freemasonry does not go quite far enough along those principles because the existence of a 'secret society' is division of mankind into members and non-members, that's strictly against Baha`i principles.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  2. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    How did they

    If they didn't have a prophet of God to show them the way?

    I've gone as far before to say that no prophet has ever been responsible for souly just giving a word from God. That they are nothing but mystical theologians.
     
  3. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    But most them DID have a prophet of God to show them the way:

    Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  4. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    And those prophets made no mention of all religions in the world coming from one source. The only prophet would have been Mani. The freemasons have no specific founder of there organization, although some scholars can trace the freemasons back to the ancient times to the building of King Solomon’s temple, which would be before Mani. If the idea of all religions coming from the same source can appear out of thin air, it shows that humans in general are pretty weak minded in recognising this virtue more commonly, or they wern't ready yet or it's an illusion.
     
  5. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the founding of the Baha'i faith through the line of abrahamic religions now means the world is ready for this virtue and not just to a select few, which to me establishes Bahá'u'lláh as one of God's manifestations like before but also shows all of Gods prophets as mere human theologians intune with mysticism.
     
  6. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    Foundations are one...

    Postmaster,

    I think you could say though Postmaster that the past religions have actually built on one another..which is especially apparent in the West, starting with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob through the acknowledgement of Jesus of the oneness of God and the fulfillment of the law and the prophets and continuing through Muhammad recognizing the Torah, Zabur and Injil and to the present day teachings of Baha'u'llah that religion is one...

    ".... the foundation of the divine religions is one. But we can see that certain forms and ceremonies have crept in. They are heretical, they are accidental, because they differ, hence they cause differences among religions. If we set aside all superstitions and seek the reality of the foundation we shall all agree, because religion is one and not multiple."

    ~ Abdul-Baha
     
  7. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Baha'i

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    Hi again, Postmaster! :)

    I'd suggest that "not ready yet" is the answer.

    After all, it had to be awfully tough to grasp the oneness of the world's religions when most people didn't know what was over the next hill!

    And we do see interfaith progressions in several areas, not just the Abrahamic religions. Buddhism sprang from Hinduism, for example.

    And Zoroaster trully formed a bridge between the eastern and western religions because He peophesied the coming of at least four later Divine Messengers from both areas, including Buddha, Christ (remember the Magi, who were Zoroastrian priests?), Muhammad, and Baha'u'llah!

    So connections are there even if most folks aren't aware of them.

    Best regards, :)

    Bruce
     
  8. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    I'd say we weren’t ready yet too, because diversity was our strength, quite paradoxically wars have accounted for great technological advancements that we see today that might have never been created overwise, even in the medical care field.
     
  9. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    Unity in diversity...

    True war has produced some technological advances but as you know in the twentieth century too many millions of innocent lives were lost...and many of the scientific breakthroughs occurred anyway ...that is from the advances made during peace time. So war as a productive means of expansion and developement has long outlived it's usefulness in today's world where we are so inter-dependent.

    One of the Baha'i principles is "Unity in Diversity" as Abdul-Baha explained:

    "Consider the flowers of a garden. Though differing in kind, color, form and shape, yet, inasmuch as they are refreshed by the waters of one spring, revived by the breath of one wind, invigorated by the rays of one sun, this diversity increaseth their charm and addeth unto their beauty. How unpleasing to the eye if all the flowers and plants, the leaves and blossoms, the fruit, the branches and the trees of that garden were all of the same shape and color! Diversity of hues, form and shape enricheth and adorneth the garden, and heighteneth the effect thereof. In like manner, when divers shades of thought, temperament and character, are brought together under the power and influence of one central agency, the beauty and glory of human perfection will be revealed and made manifest. Naught but the celestial potency of the Word of God, which ruleth and transcendeth the realities of all things, is capable of harmonizing the divergent thoughts, sentiments, ideas and convictions of the children of men."
     
  10. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    Thats true I agree.
     
  11. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    Who made the decision in the Baha'i faith only to accept donations from members? The Freemasons use the same principle, no non member is allowed to donate to there organization. I can understand why it can't be allowed in the Freemasons, but when its a religion that regards all humans the same why is non Baha'i money regarded any different? When one is donating there heart is in the right place, surely thats all that counts.
     
  12. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    Baha`u'llah in the Aqdas, and clarified by Abdu'l Baha.

    The Masons support lots of philanthropic causes with funds set up in their name and the name of other supporting organizations. When appropriate those funds can be supported.

    There have been occasions where individuals have left funds to the Bahai Faith in their wills. When that happens the Faith donatesx those funds to charities the individual supported, the money cannot be used to support Bahai projects.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  13. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    Considering freemasonry is NOT a religion, how did they both come across this principle? Would you say coincidence?
     
  14. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    In this case, I would say it is coincidence.

    Perhaps considering the links between Freemasonry and the Kinghts Templar, the Masons wanted to get away from the idea of money-lending and such.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  15. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    No solicitation of funds from non-Baha'i sources...

    For Baha'is it's important that when we build our Houses of Worship and other places that the believers themselves contribute towards it even in small donations... So we are proud to do this.

    We don't solicit funds from outside sources nor do we accept goverment contributions. In some countries the governemnt supports recognized religious bodies but we still do not accept this.

    There are many religious groups that solicit contributions outside their church but we do not do this.

    Also by only accepting Baha'i donations we are free from outside influences. Some well off people might want their names or ideas to influence the Faith.

    There are social developement projects in various parts of the world where anyone can contribute but these are not Baha'i institutions as such nor i sthere any connection. They may be inspired by Baha'is but anyone can contribute to them...

    When we receive contributions from non-Baha'is we explain we cannot accept them and urge that instead they be directed to a charity.

    - Art
     
  16. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    Back in 1912 Phoebe Hearst (the wife of William Randolph Hearst) wanted to underwrite the cost of the first North American Temple in Wilmette. Abdu'l Baha said he could not accept such a donation from any single believer because it would deny the less wealthy and even poor Baha`i's from feeling they had a hand in raising the Temple.

    Ms. Hearst was offended enough to withdraw from the Faith over the matter. She finally came to terms with Abdu'l Baha over the incident but never did come back into the faith. Her butler on the other hand remained a Baha`i all his life00he was the first American believer of African descent to declare.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  17. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Art. Popeyesays there is almost a 100% certain connection between the Freemasons and the Knights templar and also Manichaeism and the Knights Templar. The Catholic Church literally tried to destroy the Cathars in exactly the same way they did to the Knight Templars, its all historical fact (how can a religious institution kill people in the most inhumane way, burning them alive)?. The Knights templar and the Cathars were connected. Wikipeadia itself states that the Cathars held Manichaeism beliefs. It seems like there was a hidden religious history that was being incubated until Islam and Christianity loosened up abit. The secret society of the freemasons held on to these beliefs and a Persian noble man destined to become a religious founder may had stumbled across them. I'm really itching for a link between Baha'u'llah and the freemasons. Anti-Baha'i sources will state connections between the British, America and the founding of the Baha'i faith but there paranoia goes as far as Russia and Zionists and a cause for Islamic destruction and I think this is what has led to very harsh treatment of Baha'is, which I don't beleive.
     
  18. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    I think it's fair to say that Christianity, Judaism and Islam movements are pretty much exhausted religions. I think this is a main reason why the majority of people turn to Atheism/Skeptics and few other to Extremism. Like I have posted on another thread, the pattern in religion history is used to disprove it altogether by Atheists, but is used in a theological way in the Baha'i faith. As for extremists you find them in all 3 of the Abrahamic religions and I think these people are the most misguided, it's these people who cling on to religion as more like corporation rather then a divine inspiration.

     
  19. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    The claimed link between the Baha`i Faith and Zionism is based on the fact that the Baha`i Faith's world center is in Haifa on the slopes of Mount Carmel.

    The reason for that is because the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire sent Baha`u'llah to the worst prison in the Ottoman Empire--Akka as an exiled prisoner. Thus Baha`u'llah had no control of His whereabouts.

    That it fulfills so many prophetic traditions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam was not under the control of Baha`u'llah.

    The source of the fables about Russia was the simple fact that baha`u'llah's sister was married to the Russian ambassador's Persian chief of staff. The Russian ambassador among other European nations demanded His release in 1852 and the Russians offered Him refugee status, which He declined.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  20. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    Popeyesays how do you explain that Muslims share the same paranoid Zionist plot view towards the freemasons who are not based in Israel? I really think it has nothing to do with building locations and sometimes I don't even think it has anything to do with theology. I think it has something to do with culture Shock/Shaking more then anything. If the Baha'i world centre was in Europe, American, or even an Islamic country you would still get the same response. In the west we live in a land of intellectual curiosity because it's secular something the Baha'i faith embrace's quite heavily that is a major difference alone, very much different when a country is run by a religious group.
     

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