Jesus's Travels

wil

wil

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Q said:
Let's look at the "reasonableness" of Christianity. 2000 years ago, a man walks no more than 200 miles from his place of birth
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Where was he from 12-30? In reality we have his birth, and then 12 and then 30-33. We can make an assumption that he was with his parents upto 12...but then at 13 was he barmitzva'd? And then off on his own? So even in the 3 years 30-33, what have we maybe an accounting of about 80 days...40 in the world and 40 in the wilderness?
 
The Himalayas are a good bit more than 200 miles from Bethlehem! ;)

Then again, so is Egypt. :)


Here's a link to an online version of Notovich's `Lost Years of Jesus,' which has not - as some people may claim - ever been proven a hoax. In fact, let's consider what we do know:
Notovitch learned, while he was [in Ladakh], that there existed ancient records of the life of Jesus Christ. In the course of his visit at the great convent, he located a Tibetan translation of the legend and carefully noted in his carnet de voyage over two hundred verses from the curious document known as "The Life of St. Issa."

When he returned to the western world there was much controversy as to the authenticity of the document. He was accused of creating a hoax and was ridiculed as an imposter. In his defense he encouraged a scientific expedition to prove the original tibetan documents existed.

One of his skeptics was Swami Abhedananda. Abhedananda journeyed into the arctic region of the Himalayas, determined to find a copy of the Himis manuscript or to expose the fraud. His book of travels, entitled Kashmir O Tibetti, tells of a visit to the Himis gonpa and includes a Bengali translation of two hundred twenty-four verses essentially the same as the Notovitch text. Abhedananda was thereby convinced of the authenticity of the Issa legend.
​
In 1925, another Russian named Nicholas Roerich arrived at Himis. Roerich, was a philosopher and a distinguished scientist. He apparently saw the same documents as Notovitch and Abhedananda. And he recorded in his own travel diary the same legend of St. Issa.​
All of this, however, is simply the start of the mystery. The above page has plenty more links at the bottom, to additional sites concerning the Lost Years of Jesus.

For the interested, knock yourself out! ;) :)

In Love, Light and Purpose,

~andrew
 
I especially recommend this essay:

A NEW ECUMENISM BASED UPON
REEXAMINATION OF THE "LOST YEARS" EVIDENCE​

James W. Deardorff
Oregon State University
September, 1994
Updated September, 2003​

PRECIS​

The "lost years" evidence due to Notovitch in 1894 of Jesus being in India during his youth, along with its debunkings, are reexamined and the latter are found not to have been scholarly in any sense. Later evidence fully confirming Notovitch's find is presented. The implications that Jesus taught reincarnation and karma, not resurrection, are summarized and found entirely plausible. The ramifications this has for ecumenism with respect to the Eastern religions cannot be overstated, though for Christianity they remain unacceptable. ​

Let us be clear, then. Those who accuse Notovich, Roerich, et al, of presenting evidence, testimony and research that is unscholarly as concerning the Lost Years of Jesus ... well, frankly, those - the accusers - are the unscholarly ones. :eek: :(

And yet, it is the favorite tactic of those who appoint themselves to defend the status quo. Notice that the above paper of James Deardorff argues for `A New ECUMENISM,' and not - the abandoning of a faith. It argues that there is actually more in common between Christianity, and the Eastern Teachings, than less. It suggests that Jesus did have a reason for traveling to the East, just as the `Lost Years of Jesus,' by Notovich (and other works by Roerich, et al) suggests.

Nor does it hypothesize that Jesus was ignorant of the Eastern Wisdom, or God's Wisdom, prior to his travels. Anyone who bothers to actually READ these works, and essays, will find that Jesus' travels are put into a greater context, and have everything to do with fulfilling God's Purpose.

In short, the Christian message, of Brotherly Love, Forgiveness, and the returning of kindness for unkindness, is strengthened by a willingness to consider that Jesus traveled Eastward (after having visited Egypt, and God knows where else) ... in order to serve God elsewhere than just in Palestine.

Even a short excerpt from Nicholas Roerich's journals should demonstrate this, to all but the most narrow-minded of individuals:
... He passed his time in several ancient cities of India such as Benares. All loved him because Issa dwelt in peace with Vaishas and Shudras whom he instructed and helped. But the Brahmins and Kshatriyas told him that Brahma forbade those to approach who were created out of his womb and feet. The Vaishas were allowed to listen to the Vedas only on holidays and the Shudras were forbidden not only to be present at the reading of the Vedas, but could not even look at them.


Issa said that man had filled the temples with his abominations. In order to pay homage to metals and stones, man sacrificed his fellows in whom dwells a spark of the Supreme Spirit. Man demeans those who labor by the sweat of their brows, in order to gain the good will of the sluggard who sits at the lavishly set board. But they who deprive their brothers of the common blessing shall be themselves stripped of it.

Vaishas and Shudras were struck with astonishment and asked what they could perform. Issa bade them "Worship not the idols. Do not consider yourself first. Do not humiliate your neighbor. Help the poor. Sustain the feeble. Do evil to no one. Do not covet that which you do not possess and which is possessed by others."

Many, learning of such words, decided to kill Issa. But Issa, forewarned, departed from this place by night. Afterward, Issa went into Nepal and into the Himalayan mountains ....


Issa taught that men should not strive to behold the Eternal Spirit with one's own eyes but to feel it with the heart, and to become a pure and worthy soul....

"Not only shall you not make human offerings, but you must not slaughter animals, because all is given for the use of man. Do not steal the goods of others, because that would be usurpation from your near one. Do not cheat, that you may in turn not be cheated ....
"Beware, ye, who divert men from the true path and who fill the people with superstitions and prejudices, who blind the vision of the seeing ones, and who preach subservience to material things. "...
​
 
knock yourself out! ;)
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According to the Traditions of Glastonbury, Jesus and his uncle Joseph of Arimathea traveled to the South of England. The first Christian church was built there, a fact uncontested by the Western, Eastern or Avignon Catholic Churches during the height of the internal schisms.

(Wasn't enough of a political argument to win for Britain the See of Rome, but it was worth a shot...)

Knock yourself out, indeed! ;)
 
Also, although I know very little about Mormonism (despite having a Mormon friend, and having much interest in it) ... I believe the tradition is that Jesus visited (North) America. Not sure about that, but perhaps someone could clarify?
 
He'd have been wiser to sit at home and what The Wizard of Oz.
 
Then, of course, there's always the fact that had the Hebrew Scriptures to work with, and with those, what need has man of anything else?

For us, the grass seems always greener, etc., ... for Him, He is that which makes the grass grow.

Thomas
 
AndrewX said:
Also, although I know very little about Mormonism (despite having a Mormon friend, and having much interest in it) ... I believe the tradition is that Jesus visited (North) America. Not sure about that, but perhaps someone could clarify?
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I believe the Mormon position is that Jesus visited the Americas after His resurrection. There He ministered to the indigenous peoples existing at that time which the Mormons claim are the "other sheep" in John 10:16.
 
Dondi said:
I believe the Mormon position is that Jesus visited the Americas after His resurrection. There He ministered to the indigenous peoples existing at that time which the Mormons claim are the "other sheep" in John 10:16.
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I knew it! I knew there was something not quite right about that; thanks for clearing it up, Dondi! :)

Yes, the esoteric tradition is that Jesus taught the disciples for something like 30 years in the subtle body. This gets away from the question of where he went during his teenage years and twenties, however.

Thomas said:
Golly, the air-miles He must have logged up!
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A joke, of course, yet I think it is noteworthy to consider that Jesus would have traveled many - if not most - of these miles a pie.

Early on, he lived with the Essenes, and I don't know if his travels through Egypt would have occurred while still an Essene, or after he set out "on his own."

We might guess that he traveled in company to places like Egypt and Greece (if he went), but he would have journeyed alone to the Far East ... or at least as he found his way through the mountain fastnesses in order to reach the Brotherhood (the Trans-Himalayan Lodge of Adepts).
 
Let's suppose there is a correlation between His apparent 30 years of anonymity, and His 3 years of Ministry.

Is there any esoteric lesson, I wonder, to be drawn from the idea that the Incarnate Son lived simply and anonymously in the heart of His people, unremarked (except in His manner of debate with the Rabbis), and unremarkably?

Would not that, more than anything else, symbolise God's continuing fulfillment of the Covenant? The discreet Immanence of the Ineffable in the very fabric of the material? If one was looking for a 'significance' of the hidden years, I can think of nothing more profound.

And of his travels?

One might ask, why? The teachings of Jesus were absolutely in line with the Hebrew Scriptures, that was His single constant point of reference. The only thing He could have learnt abroad is what He already knew from home. There was nothing 'novel' in what he taught, but there is that unique thing He manifested, the Mystery of the Incarnation, and the Trinitarian Life in the Godhead – and those Mysteries are found neither to the East nor the West, but in the Person of Christ Himself.

As Ignatius of Antioch wrote to the Philadelphians, "I hear certain persons saying, 'Unless I find it in archives, I will not believe it in the Gospel … as for me, Jesus Christ is the archives".

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
Is there any esoteric lesson, I wonder, to be drawn from the idea that the Incarnate Son lived simply and anonymously in the heart of His people, unremarked (except in His manner of debate with the Rabbis), and unremarkably?

Would not that, more than anything else, symbolise God's continuing fulfillment of the Covenant? The discreet Immanence of the Ineffable in the very fabric of the material? If one was looking for a 'significance' of the hidden years, I can think of nothing more profound.

And of his travels?

One might ask, why? The teachings of Jesus were absolutely in line with the Hebrew Scriptures, that was His single constant point of reference. The only thing He could have learnt abroad is what He already knew from home. There was nothing 'novel' in what he taught, but there is that unique thing He manifested, the Mystery of the Incarnation, and the Trinitarian Life in the Godhead – and those Mysteries are found neither to the East nor the West, but in the Person of Christ Himself.
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For that matter, the same could be said of Samuel. We know nothing of his early life other than that he was called by God under the mentoring of Eli, according to I Samuel 1-3. But we do learn this:

"And the child Samuel grew on, and was in favour both with the LORD, and also with men." - I Samuel 2:26

"Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD, neither was the word of the LORD yet revealed unto him....And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground." - I Samuel 3:7,19

We find a similar tone when we get to Jesus:

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." - Luke 2:52

Why people insist that Jesus made elaborate journeys during the "lost" years is beyond me. If we glean any lessons from the incident at age 12 where Jesus was found among the rabbis, not only asking questions, but giving responses that astounded his teachers, is that Jesus had a consuming desire to learn the Scriptures, yet at the same time the word of the Lord is also revealed to Him, as it was Samuel. And as a student of the Law, He maintained a disciplined mind to learn all He could before commensing His ministry. Knowing the depth of the Torah (with the rabbinical consensus that there are seven levels of understanding), I don't believe He needed to venture far to gain the knowledge necessary to be a successful Rabbi himself.

I am reminded of the George Harrison tune, The Inner Light:

"Without going out of my door
I can know all things of earth
With out looking out of my window
I could know the ways of heaven

The farther one travels
The less one knows
The less one really knows"

There is no need to look beyond one's own backyard to find the answers.
 
In that case, Dondi and Thomas, I can sit here comfortably in my armchair ... and attain enlightenment (or Salvation). :rolleyes:

Nor need I venture forth to share that gift with another living Soul. Notwithstanding the Internet, I can just will it, and lo! People will benefit ... ;)

Uh-huh. I think you miss the point. Jesus did learn during his travels. And he did teach.

The esoteric tradition maintains that his journeying forth was a necessary part of his preparatory work for THIS, the New Era ... while also preparatory - in the sense that certain training was needed - even for his own (the Piscean).

This same sort of training was necessary even for that most vilified of the Hierarchy's recent Messengers, H.P. Blavatsky - hence her several visits to Tibet, including an extended stay with the Elder Brothers.

Jesus met some of these same Brothers. We may make a reasonable guess that his own Master resided in Tibet, even at that time. But then, the Brotherhood has had Branches in Egypt, Greece, and in numerous other locales for millions of years, in some cases.

In five dimensions, they may intersect in the wink of an eye (the Brotherhood does not send telegrams when instantaneous communication is needed), but for certain WORK, there is no substitute for physical presence.

Even MOSES had to ascend Mt. Sinai ... God did not snap His fingers and transform Moses into a perfect Servant.
 
I never seen in the Gospels where Jesus taught to a non-Jewish community, except for incidentals like the Canaanite woman who asked Jesus to heal her daughter. Even then He said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 15:24).

Seems He left the task of spreading the Gospel to the rest of the world with His disciples with the command. "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)

In fact, it was the apostle Peter who, after some prompting from the Holy Spirit, went to Cornelius and saw the first non-Jewish conversion to the Christ in Acts 10.
 
wil said:
Where was he from 12-30? In reality we have his birth, and then 12 and then 30-33. We can make an assumption that he was with his parents upto 12...but then at 13 was he barmitzva'd? And then off on his own? So even in the 3 years 30-33, what have we maybe an accounting of about 80 days...40 in the world and 40 in the wilderness?
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Hi
Kindly view the following:
http://www.tombofjesus.com/

Did Jesus die on the Cross? A BBC documentary :Did Jesus Die on the Cross? - Google Video
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
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