The Divinity of Christ

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Bruce Michael, Jun 13, 2007.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,602
    Likes Received:
    2,044
    It might be worth considering the Gospel of John, specifically the prologue.

    'Word' is a Latin translation of 'Logos', and in that sense the Logos of God is neither name nor role, but the Being of God.

    Another useful commentary is De Trinitate of St Augustine, Book IX, or Aquinas Summa Theologicae, First Part, questions 27-43. Here are discussed such terms as analogy and the limitations of language generally.

    The logic of such arguments often leads one to assume that Jesus is then but a pointer towards an abstract metaphysical principle ... certainly John was insistent that Jesus Christ is the incarnate reality of the paradigmatic principle, not simpy a pointer towards it.

    For some, Scripture as the Eternally Spoken Word is 'alive' today as it was in the moment the words left the Lord's lips, and to read Scripture is to dialogue with God — this is called lectio divina — another 'secret' of the Christian Tradition. In light of a significant body of evidence along these lines, I would not be too quick to dispose of Scripture on the basis of a neologism.

    As we cannot meet Christ in the flesh today, as it were, we can meet Him in Scripture ... but as much as we know God, there is always more to know, as God is Infinite ...

    Thomas
     
  2. Prober

    Prober Give Us This Day...

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    0
    Greetings!

    Salty - Wow!

    Joseph - Yeah, I agree.

    Thomas - I thought everyone read the scriptures that way. Do you read that way or think that's wrong?

    Many thanks,
    Mark
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2007
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,602
    Likes Received:
    2,044
    Lectio divina is a taught art ... people are not generally taught to read that way, so far as I know, but many do, probably, instinctively, but I believe it's not quite the same as simply contemplating the words.

    Thomas
     
  4. Prober

    Prober Give Us This Day...

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh. Didn't know it was an art.

    I just pray and ask for G^d to show me what I'm supposed to know. Then it's not just a book. I really believe it takes both parts - the word and the Word.
     
  5. JosephM

    JosephM New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    0
    With all due respect, it must be a 'secret' as you say because there is indeed to the best of my knowledge, no significant body of scientific evidence that reading words in any Book is the same as 'dialogue with God'. However, I am open to your presentation of that significant body of evidence you reference.

    Christ was clearly a title as referenced in the Bible and in the Greek. Matthew 16:20
    Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

    Furthermore, I testify I have personally met Christ while in this flesh today. Now Jesus, I have only read about and from what I read from the record of his life, I believe Jesus indeed manifested the annointing of God or the Christ. Therefore, I would suggest, in my view, your presumption is in error. But then again that is only my view and I see Christ in many people.

    Love and Peace,
    JM
     
  6. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    I agree with you, JosephM, that it is very possible to meet Christ, in the flesh, through many people today. And by this, I am not suggesting some kind of trite, platitudinous religious sentiment ... or "a thoughtful, idealistic possibility," or anything of the sort. I mean exactly what I say.

    This came to me about a month ago, and I wrote a poem about it. I posted it here at CR, if you're interested --> http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/favourite-poems-6328-5.html#post106743

    Meanwhile, I also believe we will be perfectly able to encounter Christ, in the sense of one Individual - in that sense of "flesh and blood" ... just as before, in Christ Jesus, most likely in our present lifetime. This might be a couple of decades away, maybe sooner, yet I think it is quite in line with the Biblical Philippians 2:10-11.

    As one teacher pointed out, people come and go from "the clouds," descending from "on high" every day. People do this, in fact, by the many thousands. And holy men travel, by car, by bus, by plane and train, just like everybody else ... ;)

    cheers,

    ~andrew :)
     
  7. Bruce Michael

    Bruce Michael New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2007
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Br. Thomas,
    Let's lay it out again all simple-like.
    The Gospel of Mark was cobbled together:
    For example: Mark 16:9-20.
    Common with other scriptural prophecies, this is the line that was originally in Mark's Gospel:
    My first proof was Augustine's dispute with Faustus the Manichean (circa A.D. 400):
    Obviously this was how it read in C400.

    Again the correct verse is quoted from the Gospel as it stood at that time.
    Please note that Augustine did not attempt to correct this.


    Second proof:
    The author of Hebrews made it clear:
    "So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee." Hebrews 5:5

    The Author quotes it that way!

    Third proof:
    -Hebrews 1:5

    Where else in the Gospels does God say this? Ipso facto....[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

    Cordially,
    Br.Bruce

    And another thing:

    v10: The writer of Mark uses the Greek preposition eis (into) while Matthew and Luke use epi (upon) to describe how the Spirit comes to Jesus. Robert Fowler (1996) pointing out that the understanding of the later writers is often read back in Mark, observes:


    "...Mark is portraying for us a person being invaded and possessed by a spirit. In Mark, Jesus becomes spirit-possessed."(p16)

    Gospel of Mark Chapter 1
    Fowler also points out that in Mark the Spirit is not specified as Holy, though Matthew and Luke are careful to make that clear.

    [/FONT]
     
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,602
    Likes Received:
    2,044
    Hi JM —

    You misread me, I was referring to the human Jesus Christ, not ourselves. The encounter with God today is orchestrated by and through the Holy Spirit, who leads to the Son, who leads to the Father.

    Thomas
     
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,602
    Likes Received:
    2,044
    Hi Bruce —

    The trouble is, if we accept the theory that Jesus is purely human, who was infused with the Spirit at His baptism, then a whole raft of other texts become questionable, in short the theory throws up more questions than it answers, usually a sign that the theory is not quite right.

    As ever, the solution to the question is found in context.

    Thomas
     
  10. JosephM

    JosephM New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Thomas,

    I apologize for misreading your post and retract my view for the erroneous presumption on my part.

    Love and Peace,
    JM
     
  11. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    How would you consider a natural disaster which kills many innocent people?
     
  12. Bruce Michael

    Bruce Michael New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2007
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello Br.Thomas,,

    >The trouble is, if we accept the theory that Jesus is purely human, who was >infused with the Spirit at His baptism, then a whole raft of other texts >become questionable, in short the theory throws up more questions than it >answers, usually a sign that the theory is not quite right.

    As I have said, there is good proof that Mark 1:11 is incorrect. You can take it from there.

    We still have in our Greek text the Greek preposition eis (into).

    Christ the Word, was with the baby Jesus nevertheless- that solves the "raft of other texts".

    Another thing I neglected to mention is that Mark ignores the Nativity altogether.

    Where does he start:

    Just a few more thoughts.

    -Br.Bruce
     
  13. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    0
    word is english for logos, verbo is latin for logos. though one translates to the other, verbo has more meaning when speaking about god in latin languages imo.
     
  14. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,602
    Likes Received:
    2,044
    Hi BlaznFattyz...

    I agree with you absolutely.

    As a Neoplatonist I always favoured Logos. As a Christian I have come to feel the Word moreso, and more deeply so. It is Verbum for me, from here on.

    Supernal Triad, Deity above all essence, knowledge and goodness; Guide of Christians to Divine Wisdom; direct our path to the ultimate summit of your mystical knowledge, most incomprehensible, most luminous and most exalted, where the pure, absolute and immutable mysteries of theology are veiled in the dazzling obscurity of the secret Silence, outshining all brilliance with the intensity of their Darkness, and surcharging our blinded intellects with the utterly impalpable and invisible fairness of glories surpassing all beauty.
    Dionysius the Areopagite: The Mystical Theology

    Logos is the Son, and reveals Himself, and all things, to us, but the Word sounds Himself ... that selfsame Self ... in us, in the depths of our being, issuing out of the 'secret Silence' of the Father.

    The Verbum says : Come.

    Thomas
     
  15. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,602
    Likes Received:
    2,044
    A natural disaster.

    Thomas
     
  16. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    0
    that unfortunately killed people.
     
  17. Bruce Michael

    Bruce Michael New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2007
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    0
    [FONT=&quot]Greetings Readers,
    I think the most powerful statements about the divinity of Christ come from Paul and the author of John's Gospel:


    -Ephesians 3:9


    Colossians 1:14-17

    More from

    The Deity of Christ
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    Christian esotericists have been able to go more deeply into this mystery- the works of Rudolf Steiner, Emil Bock, [/FONT]Edouard Schuré,[FONT=&quot] and Valentin Tomberg are very helpful.

    -Br.Bruce[/FONT]
     

Share This Page