The Divinity of Christ

Upper and lower case were my terms. I should have just said big G and little g.
Are you trying to change the subject?
Not at all, I'm trying to identify if the big G and little g were in the original texts or were different words or were developed later... I clearly understand what you are saying It appears this one varies from the Hebrew...

א מִזְמוֹר, לְאָסָף:
אֱלֹהִים, נִצָּב בַּעֲדַת-אֵל; בְּקֶרֶב אֱלֹהִים יִשְׁפֹּט. 1 A Psalm of Asaph. {N}
God standeth in the congregation of God; in the midst of the judges He judgeth:

ie both capitalized In their translation and looking quite different...

we both speak of context and interpretation...
 
I don't think the Lord looks favorably on "gods".
But that is just it, it doesn't appear to say gods in the original, it says God.

God standeth in the congregation of God; in the midst of the judges He judgeth:

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just indicating we haven't got to the bottom of this. Gonna have to find someone who can tell us what the hebrew says...it appears the little letters were added, not in the original texts...but which translation added them?

If there were gods, who are these gods? And what do they have to do with God? What is the relationship?
 
No one comes to the father, but through Christ Jesus, the Son of God.

Do you mind if I come on your board and ask a question about the above statement? Ignore me if I am intruding.

What do you believe about those people in the world that have never heard of Jesus (pbuh)? I realise these are probably few and far between since the advent of the internet but for centuries there have been people in the world that had no idea Christianity exists. So do these people go to hell?

Salaam
 
Do you mind if I come on your board and ask a question about the above statement? Ignore me if I am intruding.

What do you believe about those people in the world that have never heard of Jesus (pbuh)? I realise these are probably few and far between since the advent of the internet but for centuries there have been people in the world that had no idea Christianity exists. So do these people go to hell?

Salaam

It was confirmed by a Christian group that in 1844 the Gospel reached all the corners of the earth.
 
But that is just it, it doesn't appear to say gods in the original, it says God.

God standeth in the congregation of God; in the midst of the judges He judgeth:

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just indicating we haven't got to the bottom of this. Gonna have to find someone who can tell us what the hebrew says...it appears the little letters were added, not in the original texts...but which translation added them?

If there were gods, who are these gods? And what do they have to do with God? What is the relationship?

Oh, I see what you mean...
 
It was confirmed by a Christian group that in 1844 the Gospel reached all the corners of the earth.

Thankyou for your response Seeker of Truth. However, a new tribe (the Metyktire tribe, a subgroup of the Kayapo tribe) was found in May 2007, that had never had contact with the outside world. Also, Survival International estimate there to be 100+ uncontacted tribes still in the world today. Taking into account the number of tribes which have been discovered since 1844, I would respectfully suggest that the Christian Group may have been incorrect?

So it still begs the question, where does Christianity stand on these people?

Salaam
 
I thought the personal confrontation with Jesus had something to do with it.

Actually this is my inaccuracy — the blinded Saul was taken to Damascus, and there was tutored by Ananias, a disciple, who was filled with some fear at the idea, but was instructed in a vision to receive the persecutor.

Saul was baptised Paul by Ananias:
"And immediately there fell from his eyes as it were scales: and he received his sight. And rising up, he was baptized."
Acts 9:18
 
Actually this is my inaccuracy — the blinded Saul was taken to Damascus, and there was tutored by Ananias, a disciple, who was filled with some fear at the idea, but was instructed in a vision to receive the persecutor.

Saul was baptised Paul by Ananias:
"And immediately there fell from his eyes as it were scales: and he received his sight. And rising up, he was baptized."
Acts 9:18


Regenerating grace is beautiful. Even prominent disciples, like Ananias, sometimes stagger at the commands of the Lord. But it is the Lord’s glory to surpass our scanty expectations, and show that those are vessels of his mercy whom we are apt to consider as objects of his vengeance. The teaching of the Holy Spirit takes away the scales of ignorance and pride from our understanding.
 
Hello Muslimwoman, and Peace to you...

So it still begs the question, where does Christianity stand on these people?

It depends on which denomination.

Catholicism holds that "The Spirit breatheth where he will and thou hearest his voice: but thou knowest not whence he cometh and whither he goeth. So is every one that is born of the Spirit" (John 3:8)

That Spirit is Love, so it is given that anyone who loves 'in the spirit' (and thus not 'love in the flesh', which is for their own gratification) loves with God, and loves God (because the spirit of that person reaches out to give itself to the spirit of another) and God loves them, and they are His people.

The Lord said to my namesake "Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen and have believed" (John 20:29) — they are poor in spirit (poor in the sense that they have not the knowledge that we have) but they are the beloved of God.

Thomas
 
Namaste Thomas and Muslimwoman...

I am in tune, right in tune....I agree with your current Catholic analysis, but may I ask how long have the Catholics held this viewpoint? Did they not for centuries demand that one declare Jesus as their Lord and Saviour prior to indicating that one would be saved?

I do like that a Christian organization confirmed that they have been to the four corners....first it is always refreshing when a group confirms its own accomplishments...heck with those third party verifications....second the four corners aspect seems like a flat earth thought....MW your natives were in one of the round spots...if they'd please proceed to one of the four corners we can register them.

On the flip side MW can you hop over to another thread to discuss same reagarding Islam?
 
What do you believe about those people in the world that have never heard of Jesus (pbuh)? I realise these are probably few and far between since the advent of the internet but for centuries there have been people in the world that had no idea Christianity exists. So do these people go to hell?

Salaam
those who believed in the coming saviour, where their hope was placed in him before he even came are saved thru faith. those that believed he was the saviour when he walked among us are saved thru faith. those that believe in the death and resurrection of the saviour are saved thru faith. those that never heard of jesus christ will be judged on how they lived their life. regardless if they heard of him or didnt hear of him everyone great and small will stand before him as he sits on the throne of God and he will judge all and he alone will open the book of life to see if their name is in it. Only God knows the heart of man and only God knows who goes to hell. Although it is for the devil and his angels, there are those who call satan their god, or have rejected god, blasphemed against him and have done great evil, and unless they repent, they stand a good chance of condemnation.
 
Hi Wil —

Clement of Alexandria spoke of 'Christians before Christ' in the 2nd century, and someone else of 'anonymous Christians' ... but I take your point.

I'll have to do some research. I know that "No salvation outside the Church" was an axiom of faith, and still is, but I can't recall at which point someone said that the Church, in this respect, is anyone Christ chooses.

I do know that what is now doctrine — pronounced at the 2nd Vatican Council (1963) continues to cause a huge ballyhoo amongst hardliners, and brought down much criticism upon our heads.

The same thing happened when we acknowledged the viability of other faiths, eg Buddhism — we took some heavy flak for that, too.

But we're Catholics, stick your head above the parapet, and someone'll have a pop at you...

Thomas
 
The same thing happened when we acknowledged the viability of other faiths, eg Buddhism — we took some heavy flak for that, too.

But we're Catholics, stick your head above the parapet, and someone'll have a pop at you...
I honor the Catholics for the openness that has occured recently (now if they'll just let google or yahoo at that library....)

And on the second note....I surely hope you don't feel that is me.:eek:
 
those who believed in the coming saviour, where their hope was placed in him before he even came are saved thru faith. those that believed he was the saviour when he walked among us are saved thru faith. those that believe in the death and resurrection of the saviour are saved thru faith. those that never heard of jesus christ will be judged on how they lived their life. regardless if they heard of him or didnt hear of him everyone great and small will stand before him as he sits on the throne of God and he will judge all and he alone will open the book of life to see if their name is in it. Only God knows the heart of man and only God knows who goes to hell. Although it is for the devil and his angels, there are those who call satan their god, or have rejected god, blasphemed against him and have done great evil, and unless they repent, they stand a good chance of condemnation.

Thank you very much for your explanation Blazn. I wasn't trying to be rude, just wanted to understand your views.

Salaam
 
Do you mind if I come on your board and ask a question about the above statement? Ignore me if I am intruding.

What do you believe about those people in the world that have never heard of Jesus (pbuh)? I realise these are probably few and far between since the advent of the internet but for centuries there have been people in the world that had no idea Christianity exists. So do these people go to hell?

Salaam

Hello and greetings, Muslimwoman.

I believe the classic declaration by Jesus that "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; nobody comes to the Father except through me" is a declaration that it is the "concept of me" (Jesus) that leads to God.

By the "concept of me" (Jesus) I believe he was referring to everything he believed in, lived for and stood for as a person who devoted and dedicated his whole life to God. If we believe in, live for and stand for the same things as Jesus did, we ultimately set ourselves on a road to God.

I believe therefore, that it is not knowledge of Christianity that puts us on that road, but the "concept of Jesus" and his mission/purpose that puts us on that road.

Christianity is merely the collection of concepts that leads us to this concept, but I believe a person may arrive at the same concept without knowledge of Christianity. The "concept of Jesus" is undoubtedly the core of Christianity, but I believe it's possible (in theory) for a person to have the core without the peripherals and still find God.

A traditional and conventional Christian uses the peripherals (Christianity) to find God. An "unconventional Christian" aligns himself to the core alone without knowledge of Christianity to find God. The "unconventional Christian" bypasses the core.

I believe Christ is merely a paradigm. Christianity is a way of better understanding Christ and his paradigm, but Christianity itself is not Christ, the Messiah. Christianity is a path to Christ, but Christ is ultimately what leads us to God. It is the paradigm that leads us to God. Christ himself was God's means of bypassing the human authoritative hierarchies (ie. those of the religious leaders of the day). Just as God can bypass hierarchies that are the traditional channel of communication with human beings, Christian believers could also bypass Christianity and embrace Christ without knowledge of Christianity.

It's like you could be a good kung fu master if you were taught by Bruce Lee, but some people are so smart they don't need to be taught by Bruce Lee. Likewise with Christianity and Christ. Christianity helps us to understand Christ, but some already "know him" even though they haven't heard the name that was used to refer to him historically.

Christ/Jesus has a name, but we don't necessarily have to use the "name" to find God. It is more the paradigm than the name, that leads us to God. The paradigm could be described in many ways (without a name) and still be conceptualised correctly. You could call Jesus Bob, James, Michaelangelo or Leo but he'd still be the Messiah if the essential meaning of the paradigm is maintained.

Jesus never said Christianity/The New Testament was the Truth. He said he (himself) was the Truth. Christianity is "truth" only as much as it conveys that "truth." Where Christianity or the New Testament fails to convey that, it fails to be so-called "truth."

In Revelation 19:12, the Rider on the White Horse is described as follows:

He has a name written on his forehead that no-one knows but himself. Revelation 19:12 (NIV)

With sufficient background knowledge of Christianity, one could safely assume that this figure in Revelation is Christ. I'd say it's a roundabout way of saying that Christ's true identity is not defined or referenced in a name, but understanding what he means in the cosmology (with regards to Christianity's view of the End Times) of things to come.

Explanation: you might find it ironic that in the next verse (Revelation 9:13) it says that "his name is the Word of God."

"Jesus" qualifies as a name in the sense of referring to an individual without regards to his role, but "Word of God" is a role, not the intrinsic name of a person. We know his role in Christianity (Word of God), and his historical name (Jesus) but what's his identity? What does he mean to us? I believe that is what is being addressed in Revelation 19:12. The exact meaning of Christ is a mystery. We can only see parts of the concept in the written text, but not the whole thing. It's because of our limited scope of knowledge and understanding as human beings.
 
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