LeoSalinas22
merely a shadow...
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hi everyone,
just here thinking about God. its so funny because what i have noticed here on these forums is that we try really hard to get a grasp of who God is or what His purpose is, you know? anyways my point is that we will always have differing views, because our lives are so different. so, on to the purpose of this thread. as you know throughout the forum their have been different views of hell or the eternal grave of mankind. this thread is mostly posted for the purpose of giving my version of what sheol is or the lake of fire as explained in revelation. so here we go. this all started when i read the portion of the letter of Jude that read:
Jude 1 ... wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
so i thought to myself, why is the book of Enoch not in the bible but yet the book is quoted directly from Jude himself? so i read the book of Enoch. it is amazing and reveals and explains so much of what the bible only summarizes and goes more into detail. so, back to hell, i came across these few scriptures from the book of Enoch that to me, explain what hell actually is. or at least the way i understand it. here we go. the first scripture explains how even stars are given the Law and that they don't transgress it. some do transgress and some don't.
Enoch2:1 Observe ye everything that takes place in the heaven, how they do not change their orbits, and the luminaries which are in the heaven, how they all rise and set in order each in its season, and 2 transgress not against their appointed order.
so, we have stars following the Law. so what happens then when a star transgresses its order? here is the scripture:
Enoch 18:And I saw a deep abyss, with columns of heavenly fire, and among them I saw columns of fire fall, which were beyond measure alike towards 12 the height and towards the depth. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no 13 birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains, 14 and to me, when I inquired regarding them, The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of 16 their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years.'
this is also where the rebel angels will dwell:
Enoch 19:1 And Uriel said to me: 'Here shall stand the angels who have connected themselves with women, and their spirits assuming many different forms are defiling mankind and shall lead them astray into sacrificing to demons as gods, (here shall they stand,) till the day of the great judgement in 2 which they shall be judged till they are made an end of. And the women also of the angels who 3 went astray shall become sirens.' And I, Enoch, alone saw the vision, the ends of all things: and no man shall see as I have seen.
ok, so this is actually a abyss, cold and hot apparently, at the same time?! doesn't Christ mention something along the lines of this?
Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
wailing because it will be hot and gnashing of teeth because it will be cold. hot because of the stars of heaven in the abyss and cold because it is the farthest reaches of outer space. i keep thinking about black holes though. when a black hole happens, where does all the fire, energy, and heat go? better yet, where does one end up if you go through that hole? it is insane even to conceive or imagine it. my point of view is that this will be the eternal grave of mankind, "the waste and horrible place". then, it occured, if something that God deems "waste", what does he do with it? into the furnace it goes. so then what if He perhaps considers the ungodly "waste". ungodly persons that are beyond salvage.
i keep thinking and asking myself why is all of this happening? why would He be getting rid of waste? the same reason when one is making something. making something like a piece of art, music, a statue, or the best example of all, a harvest. in art, when making a picture, you are drawing, at first it doesn't come out exactly the way you wanted, you end up with sketches until you have the perfect drawing, or in the case of a sculpture, you keep cutting away at the rock until you get the sculpture you want. so what do you do with what is left? you throw it away. as i mentioned, the harvest is a perfect example because it was described the best way by Christ Himself in the parable of the sower. it is written:
Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
of course it is always better to read it in context. the harvest is mostly explained as the end of creation when man is perfect. God doesn't really mean to throw His creation away but is just necessary so that creation can be made perfect. in my point of view, creation isn't done yet, as i mentioned on these threads for your information.
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/the-2nd-day-7338.html
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/awake-7340.html
again, this is just my point of view and wanted to see what all of you thought about it. bear with me with this thread for i know it all sounds insane. the fact is that i have quite an imagination and am constantly pondering on God and His ways. His ways are just so amazing and mysterious. i know in the end He will reveal everything to us, but still, doesn't hurt to talk about Him, right? please, i welcome scriptures that nullify my point of view. for i have learned alot on being on this forum and many of you have caused me to reconsider the way i interpret scripture. so, thanks for reading this crazy post o' mine and God bless all of you till times indefinate.
just here thinking about God. its so funny because what i have noticed here on these forums is that we try really hard to get a grasp of who God is or what His purpose is, you know? anyways my point is that we will always have differing views, because our lives are so different. so, on to the purpose of this thread. as you know throughout the forum their have been different views of hell or the eternal grave of mankind. this thread is mostly posted for the purpose of giving my version of what sheol is or the lake of fire as explained in revelation. so here we go. this all started when i read the portion of the letter of Jude that read:
Jude 1 ... wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
so i thought to myself, why is the book of Enoch not in the bible but yet the book is quoted directly from Jude himself? so i read the book of Enoch. it is amazing and reveals and explains so much of what the bible only summarizes and goes more into detail. so, back to hell, i came across these few scriptures from the book of Enoch that to me, explain what hell actually is. or at least the way i understand it. here we go. the first scripture explains how even stars are given the Law and that they don't transgress it. some do transgress and some don't.
Enoch2:1 Observe ye everything that takes place in the heaven, how they do not change their orbits, and the luminaries which are in the heaven, how they all rise and set in order each in its season, and 2 transgress not against their appointed order.
so, we have stars following the Law. so what happens then when a star transgresses its order? here is the scripture:
Enoch 18:And I saw a deep abyss, with columns of heavenly fire, and among them I saw columns of fire fall, which were beyond measure alike towards 12 the height and towards the depth. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no 13 birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains, 14 and to me, when I inquired regarding them, The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of 16 their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years.'
this is also where the rebel angels will dwell:
Enoch 19:1 And Uriel said to me: 'Here shall stand the angels who have connected themselves with women, and their spirits assuming many different forms are defiling mankind and shall lead them astray into sacrificing to demons as gods, (here shall they stand,) till the day of the great judgement in 2 which they shall be judged till they are made an end of. And the women also of the angels who 3 went astray shall become sirens.' And I, Enoch, alone saw the vision, the ends of all things: and no man shall see as I have seen.
ok, so this is actually a abyss, cold and hot apparently, at the same time?! doesn't Christ mention something along the lines of this?
Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
wailing because it will be hot and gnashing of teeth because it will be cold. hot because of the stars of heaven in the abyss and cold because it is the farthest reaches of outer space. i keep thinking about black holes though. when a black hole happens, where does all the fire, energy, and heat go? better yet, where does one end up if you go through that hole? it is insane even to conceive or imagine it. my point of view is that this will be the eternal grave of mankind, "the waste and horrible place". then, it occured, if something that God deems "waste", what does he do with it? into the furnace it goes. so then what if He perhaps considers the ungodly "waste". ungodly persons that are beyond salvage.
i keep thinking and asking myself why is all of this happening? why would He be getting rid of waste? the same reason when one is making something. making something like a piece of art, music, a statue, or the best example of all, a harvest. in art, when making a picture, you are drawing, at first it doesn't come out exactly the way you wanted, you end up with sketches until you have the perfect drawing, or in the case of a sculpture, you keep cutting away at the rock until you get the sculpture you want. so what do you do with what is left? you throw it away. as i mentioned, the harvest is a perfect example because it was described the best way by Christ Himself in the parable of the sower. it is written:
Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
of course it is always better to read it in context. the harvest is mostly explained as the end of creation when man is perfect. God doesn't really mean to throw His creation away but is just necessary so that creation can be made perfect. in my point of view, creation isn't done yet, as i mentioned on these threads for your information.
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/the-2nd-day-7338.html
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/awake-7340.html
again, this is just my point of view and wanted to see what all of you thought about it. bear with me with this thread for i know it all sounds insane. the fact is that i have quite an imagination and am constantly pondering on God and His ways. His ways are just so amazing and mysterious. i know in the end He will reveal everything to us, but still, doesn't hurt to talk about Him, right? please, i welcome scriptures that nullify my point of view. for i have learned alot on being on this forum and many of you have caused me to reconsider the way i interpret scripture. so, thanks for reading this crazy post o' mine and God bless all of you till times indefinate.