Jesus & the Archangel

[Bruce Michael]

Can we now say, because Christ lived in a human body, that Christ was human?

I was able to ask a Christian Community priest about all this, and he agreed: The higher we go we find that Christ is of the Trinity and then condescends through the Seraphim, Cherubim and so on to become an Archangel and then man.

Now, my reading of Rudolf Steiner says that Michael is that Archangel.

From The Pre Earthly Deeds of Christ:

"He who was later the Nathan-Jesus had been present in the three earlier events, but not incarnated as physical man; he lived in the spiritual worlds as a spiritual Being of the nature of the Archangels; and in the spiritual worlds, in the preparatory stages of the Mystery of Golgotha, in the Lemurian age and twice in Atlantis, he was permeated by the Christ-Being."

Notice he lived as one who had "the nature of the Archangels", but he was of an Angelic nature:

"It may be said, therefore, that there were three Archangel-lives in the spiritual world, and that the Being who lived those lives was the same as he who was later incarnated as man and is described in the Gospel of St. Luke as the Jesus-child. Three times had this Angelic being, who later sacrificed himself as Man, offered himself for permeation by the Christ-Impulse. As in Christ Jesus we have a Man permeated with the Christ-Impulse, so it may be said that three times previously we have an Angel permeated with that Impulse. "​

Dr. Steiner's teaching is that the Nathan child was a pure soul who was not involved in the Fall. He had also been Krishna. I hadn't consider him as an Archangel though. This is a new thought- and quite convoluted too.

The fact that the "Christ Impulse" incarnated in an Angelic being as stated above, is contradicted by Steiner here:

"I admit that it may seem strange when I say that this great Being was ensouled three times in an archangelic form, and then incarnated in a human being. It would seem a more orderly progression if between His ensoulment as an archangel and His human incarnation He had taken an angelic form. So it may seem to us. Yet, even though it is claimed that the statements of spiritual science are fictitious, truly it is not so. You may gather this from corroborative evidence. If you ask me how it happens that Christ did not descend from hierarchy to hierarchy and only afterward to man - if you were to ask me that, I could only answer that I do not know, for I never make theoretical combinations. The facts adduced by spiritual research are that Christ chose three times an archangelic form, leaving out the angelic form, and then made use of a human body. I leave it to future research to determine the reason, which I do not yet know, though I do know that it is true. "
​

Was he making a correction, because the Pre Earthly Deeds of Christ lecture was given in March and the Four Sacrifices in June 1914?

From the Four Sacrifices of Christ:

"This danger to humanity was averted in the Lemurian age by a Being Who later, through the Mystery of Golgotha, incarnated in the body of Jesus of Nazareth. In this earlier age, however, He ensouled Himself - I cannot say incarnated - in one of the archangels.

"While the earth was working through the Lemurian age, a Being living in spiritual heights became manifest - one might say, as a sort of prophecy of John's baptism - in an archangel who offered up his soul powers, and was thus permeated by the Christ."
​

So in this lecture we are again talking about the Nathan Jesus (though he is not mentioned by name).

Then we find the Nathan Jesus being talked about as though he had been ensouled with the Archangel Michael:

"Once more the Christ Being ensouled Himself in an archangel, and the power thus generated in the spiritual world made possible the harmonization of thinking, feeling and willing........
"Mankind has preserved some memory of how human passion and human thinking were harmonized at this period by forces that descended from supramundane worlds, but the sign of this memory is not rightly understood. St. George who conquers the dragon, or Michael who conquers the dragon, are symbols of the third Christ event, when Christ ensouled Himself in an archangel. It is the dragon, trodden under foot, that has brought thinking, feeling and willing into disorder. All who turn their gaze upon St. George or Michael with the dragon, or some similar episode, perceive, in reality, the third Christ event. The Greeks who in their wonderful mythology made copies of what happened in the spiritual world at the end of the Atlantean age,
revered the Sun Spirit as the harmonizer of man's thinking, feeling and willing. "

Now the Nathan Jesus is forgotten:

"Then came the fourth, the earthly mystery, that of Golgotha. The same Christ Being Who had ensouled Himself three times in archangelic form incarnated through what we call the Baptism by John in the Jordan in the body of Jesus of Nazareth."

I'm not too clear on all this. Just what is the connection of the Archangel Michael to the Nathan Jesus?


Br.Bruce

 

[mee]

I'm not too clear on all this. Just what is the connection of the Archangel Michael to the Nathan Jesus?


Br.Bruce

Scriptural evidence indicates that the name Michael applied to God’s Son before he left heaven to become Jesus Christ and also after his return. Michael is the only one said to be "the archangel," meaning "chief angel," or "principal angel."
(Mi´cha·el) [Who Is Like God?].
No other angel is portrayed as having such great power and authority over God’s enemies.

 

[17th Angel]

Scriptural evidence indicates that the name Michael applied to God’s Son before he left heaven to become Jesus Christ and also after his return. Michael is the only one said to be "the archangel," meaning "chief angel," or "principal angel."
(Mi´cha·el) [Who Is Like God?].
No other angel is portrayed as having such great power and authority over God’s enemies.

The bible indicates that does it? Could you kindly share this sciptural evidence..... Kthx.

 

[mee]

The

Bible’s Viewpoint​

Who Is Michael the Archangel?​

ACCORDING to the Bible, there are millions of angelic creatures inhabiting the spirit realm. (Daniel 7:9, 10; Revelation 5:11) From beginning to end, the Scriptures make hundreds of references to the angels that remain loyal to God. Yet, only two of these spirit creatures are mentioned by name. One is the angel Gabriel, who personally delivered messages from God to three different individuals over a period of some 600 years. (Daniel 9:20-22; Luke 1:8-19, 26-28) The other angel mentioned by name in the Bible is Michael.
Michael is clearly an outstanding angel. For example, in the book of Daniel, Michael is described as fighting wicked demons in behalf of Jehovah’s people. (Daniel 10:13; 12:1) In the inspired letter of Jude, Michael confronts Satan in a dispute over Moses’ body. (Jude 9) The book of Revelation shows that Michael wars with Satan and his demons and hurls them out of heaven. (Revelation 12:7-9) No other angel is portrayed as having such great power and authority over God’s enemies. It is no wonder, then, that the Bible appropriately refers to Michael as "the archangel," the prefix "arch" meaning "chief," or "principal."​

The​

​

Controversy Over Michael’s Identity​

Christendom’s religions, as well as Judaism and Islam, have conflicting ideas on the subject of angels. Some explanations are vague. For instance, The Anchor Bible Dictionary states: "There may be a single superior angel and/or a small group of archangels (usually four or seven)." According to The Imperial Bible-Dictionary, Michael is the "name of a superhuman being, in regard to whom there have in general been two rival opinions, either that he is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, or that he is one of the so-called seven archangels."
In Jewish tradition these seven archangels are Gabriel, Jeremiel, Michael, Raguel, Raphael, Sariel, and Uriel. On the other hand, Islam believes in four archangels, namely, Jibril, Mikal, Izrail, and Israfil. Catholicism also believes in four archangels: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel. What does the Bible say? Are there several archangels?​

The​

​

Bible’s Answer​

Aside from Michael, no archangel is mentioned in the Bible, nor do the Scriptures use the term "archangel" in the plural. The Bible describes Michael as the archangel, implying that he alone bears that designation. Hence, it is reasonable to conclude that Jehovah God has delegated to one, and only one, of his heavenly creatures full authority over all other angels.
Aside from the Creator himself, only one faithful person is spoken of as having angels under subjection—namely, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31) The apostle Paul made specific mention of "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels." (2 Thessalonians 1:7) And Peter described the resurrected Jesus by saying: "He is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him."—1 Peter 3:22.
While there is no statement in the Bible that categorically identifies Michael the archangel as Jesus, there is one scripture that links Jesus with the office of archangel. In his letter to the Thessalonians, the apostle Paul prophesied: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first." (1 Thessalonians 4:16) In this scripture Jesus is described as having assumed his power as God’s Messianic King. Yet, he speaks with "an archangel’s voice." Note, too, that he has the power to raise the dead.
While on earth as a human, Jesus performed several resurrections. In doing so, he used his voice to utter commanding calls. For example, when resurrecting the dead son of a widow in the city of Nain, he said: "Young man, I say to you, Get up!" (Luke 7:14, 15) Later, just before resurrecting his friend Lazarus, Jesus "cried out with a loud voice: ‘Lazarus, come on out!’" (John 11:43) But on these occasions, Jesus’ voice was the voice of a perfect man.
After his own resurrection, Jesus was raised to a "superior position" in heaven as a spirit creature. (Philippians 2:9) No longer a human, he has the voice of an archangel. So when God’s trumpet sounded the call for "those who are dead in union with Christ" to be raised to heaven, Jesus issued "a commanding call," this time "with an archangel’s voice." It is reasonable to conclude that only an archangel would call "with an archangel’s voice."​

Yes, there are other angelic creatures of high rank, such as seraphs and cherubs. (Genesis 3:24; Isaiah 6:2) Yet, the Scriptures point to the resurrected Jesus Christ as the chief of all angels—Michael the archangel. ........................this artical was taken from the awake magazine 2002 published by Jehovahs witnesses it seems to make good sense to me .

​

 

[17th Angel]

I'll give that a read....

 

[LeoSalinas22]

mee,

While there is no statement in the Bible that categorically identifies Michael the archangel as Jesus, there is one scripture that links Jesus with the office of archangel. In his letter to the Thessalonians, the apostle Paul prophesied: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first." (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

that is correct, mee, you just shot yourself in the foot. there is no statement in the bible that categorically identifies Michael being Jesus. no one calls Him Michael the Archangel. when i mean no one, i mean the apostles, disciples, or anyone, for that matter. He may have been resurrected as an angelic being since angel means messenger, but He isn't Michael Himself. just because He will descend from heaven with an archangel's voice doesn't mean, either that He will be an archangel. it means that even Michael the archangel is below Him since everything was made subject to Him. as so much as He is using the archangel's voice for His purpose. after all, aren't we ourselves going to judge angels? i say the worst thing someone can do is assume that this is fact, because the fact of the matter is that no one really knows. heck, i may be wrong myself. anyways, i am going to stop right here. thanks and God bless...

 

[Bruce Michael]

The

Bible’s Viewpoint​

Who Is Michael the Archangel?​

ACCORDING to the Bible, there are millions of angelic creatures inhabiting the spirit realm. (Daniel 7:9, 10; Revelation 5:11) From beginning to end, the Scriptures make hundreds of references to the angels that remain loyal to God. Yet, only two of these spirit creatures are mentioned by name. One is the angel Gabriel, who personally delivered messages from God to three different individuals over a period of some 600 years. (Daniel 9:20-22; Luke 1:8-19, 26-28) The other angel mentioned by name in the Bible is Michael.
Michael is clearly an outstanding angel. For example, in the book of Daniel, Michael is described as fighting wicked demons in behalf of Jehovah’s people. (Daniel 10:13; 12:1) In the inspired letter of Jude, Michael confronts Satan in a dispute over Moses’ body. (Jude 9) The book of Revelation shows that Michael wars with Satan and his demons and hurls them out of heaven. (Revelation 12:7-9) No other angel is portrayed as having such great power and authority over God’s enemies. It is no wonder, then, that the Bible appropriately refers to Michael as "the archangel," the prefix "arch" meaning "chief," or "principal."​

The​

Controversy Over Michael’s Identity​

Christendom’s religions, as well as Judaism and Islam, have conflicting ideas on the subject of angels. Some explanations are vague. For instance, The Anchor Bible Dictionary states: "There may be a single superior angel and/or a small group of archangels (usually four or seven)." According to The Imperial Bible-Dictionary, Michael is the "name of a superhuman being, in regard to whom there have in general been two rival opinions, either that he is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, or that he is one of the so-called seven archangels."
In Jewish tradition these seven archangels are Gabriel, Jeremiel, Michael, Raguel, Raphael, Sariel, and Uriel. On the other hand, Islam believes in four archangels, namely, Jibril, Mikal, Izrail, and Israfil. Catholicism also believes in four archangels: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel. What does the Bible say? Are there several archangels?​

The​

Bible’s Answer​

Aside from Michael, no archangel is mentioned in the Bible, nor do the Scriptures use the term "archangel" in the plural. The Bible describes Michael as the archangel, implying that he alone bears that designation. Hence, it is reasonable to conclude that Jehovah God has delegated to one, and only one, of his heavenly creatures full authority over all other angels.
Aside from the Creator himself, only one faithful person is spoken of as having angels under subjection—namely, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31) The apostle Paul made specific mention of "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels." (2 Thessalonians 1:7) And Peter described the resurrected Jesus by saying: "He is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him."—1 Peter 3:22.
While there is no statement in the Bible that categorically identifies Michael the archangel as Jesus, there is one scripture that links Jesus with the office of archangel. In his letter to the Thessalonians, the apostle Paul prophesied: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first." (1 Thessalonians 4:16) In this scripture Jesus is described as having assumed his power as God’s Messianic King. Yet, he speaks with "an archangel’s voice." Note, too, that he has the power to raise the dead.
While on earth as a human, Jesus performed several resurrections. In doing so, he used his voice to utter commanding calls. For example, when resurrecting the dead son of a widow in the city of Nain, he said: "Young man, I say to you, Get up!" (Luke 7:14, 15) Later, just before resurrecting his friend Lazarus, Jesus "cried out with a loud voice: ‘Lazarus, come on out!’" (John 11:43) But on these occasions, Jesus’ voice was the voice of a perfect man.
After his own resurrection, Jesus was raised to a "superior position" in heaven as a spirit creature. (Philippians 2:9) No longer a human, he has the voice of an archangel. So when God’s trumpet sounded the call for "those who are dead in union with Christ" to be raised to heaven, Jesus issued "a commanding call," this time "with an archangel’s voice." It is reasonable to conclude that only an archangel would call "with an archangel’s voice."​

Yes, there are other angelic creatures of high rank, such as seraphs and cherubs. (Genesis 3:24; Isaiah 6:2) Yet, the Scriptures point to the resurrected Jesus Christ as the chief of all angels—Michael the archangel. ........................this artical was taken from the awake magazine 2002 published by Jehovahs witnesses it seems to make good sense to me .

​

Dear Mee (I feel like I'm talking to myself.),

Yes that is the JW doctrine; consider the importance of the year 1879. I think the Mormons may have a similar doctrine about Jesus being the Archangel.

The conception of Michael and the Dragon has held great importance in the past, with a line of churches dedicated to Michael across Europe. The earthly reflection is found in St. George and the Dragon.

In the Urantia Book we also encounter a Christ-Michael.

I do believe though that the Divine Creative Word of John was present in Christ Jesus while He walked this Earth.

A hint is found in the name Micha-el "He who goes before God" "The Countenance of God".

Br.Bruce

 

[mee]

Dear Mee (I feel like I'm talking to myself.),

Yes that is the JW doctrine; consider the importance of the year 1879. I think the Mormons may have a similar doctrine about Jesus being the Archangel.

The conception of Michael and the Dragon has held great importance in the past, with a line of churches dedicated to Michael across Europe. The earthly reflection is found in St. George and the Dragon.

In the Urantia Book we also encounter a Christ-Michael.

I do believe though that the Divine Creative Word of John was present in Christ Jesus while He walked this Earth.

A hint is found in the name Micha-el "He who goes before God" "The Countenance of God".

Br.Bruce

The Bible states that "Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels." (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels." (2 Thessalonians 1:7; Matthew 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and "his angels" and Jesus and "his angels." (Matthew 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.