why doesnt god show up

shadowman

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and tell us the deal to our face, not after we die when it is too late?
 
Because then you wouldn't have a choice, would you?

Thomas
 
so what. the choice only exists to put people in hell.

why the hell is god doing this little "pre eternal life deal" where we sit on earth waiting to be judged on whether or not we said yes to a diety that defies reason and doesnt appear.

whats so good about a choice if the consequences are hell.

yeah why doesnt he show up?

why does he want people to not choose him.

he made it this way, so this is how he wants it.

he must want people to end up failing because that is what is gonna happen and he knows it.
 
I think I'm with Shadowman on this one, at least regarding the traditional view of salvation.

God showing up and telling you the way it is only narrows the choices.
As shadowman says there is only one real choice whether you are aware of it or not.
It is like somebody holding a gun at you and encouraging you to do as he says, or else...
 
I think that God is unlikely to show up in the traditional sense while there are those who still earnestly seek to "see" Him in the present. While I am not saying that I know how everything will progress in the future, I still trust that Love&Wisdom does not "hold a gun to our heads"; Love&Wisdom seeks to be seen. How can one see Love and Wisdom when one will not let go of fear?

InPeace,
InLove
 
what exactly does that mean though, inLOve?
when I look at humans, I usually am not looking at a reflection of a higher power that would eternally torment other people based on a choice. I see people with flaws but who for the most part try to do the best for everyone involved. should I be looking elsewhere to "see him in the present?"
 
shadowman said:
why doesnt god show up...
and tell us the deal to our face, not after we die when it is too late

Many people believe He has shown up and told us the deal--

so what. the choice only exists to put people in hell.

Are you certain about this? That's not how I see it.

why the hell is god doing this little "pre eternal life deal" where we sit on earth waiting to be judged on whether or not we said yes to a diety that defies reason and doesnt appear.

Maybe He has appeared. Maybe there is no need to sit on earth waiting to be judged. Maybe we should seek out Love. Maybe each step we take toward the Love of God, He takes one step toward us. Yes, maybe we shouldn't just sit around waiting for the worst. Maybe we should try and see the beauty and truth right now. That seems reasonable to me.

why does he want people to not choose him.

Who told you that? What makes you think so? I don't believe this is the case.

he must want people to end up failing because that is what is gonna happen and he knows it.

You know what God knows? How do you know this?

InPeace,
InLove
 
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shadowman said:
what exactly does that mean though, inLOve?
when I look at humans, I usually am not looking at a reflection of a higher power that would eternally torment other people based on a choice. I see people with flaws but who for the most part try to do the best for everyone involved. should I be looking elsewhere to "see him in the present?"

When you see this in other people, this caring attitude--perhaps this is a good place to start seeing Him in the present. If people can do this, certainly God can. Can't we at least attempt to give God a little of the same consideration we give our fellow beings?

InPeace,
InLove
 
so what. the choice only exists to put people in hell.

why the hell is god doing this little "pre eternal life deal" where we sit on earth waiting to be judged on whether or not we said yes to a diety that defies reason and doesnt appear.

whats so good about a choice if the consequences are hell.

yeah why doesnt he show up?

why does he want people to not choose him.

he made it this way, so this is how he wants it.

he must want people to end up failing because that is what is gonna happen and he knows it.

OK Shadowman,

So you are smart enough to see through the simple facade of Christianity as some present it and represent it through the Bible. You know it is not true so why do you continue to play with those who through ignorance are not as smart as you and wish to continue to believe it?

Love and Peace,
JM
 
I dont know, because Im scared of hell but I still think the whole christianity thing seems unfair and aims to send thinking people to hell. I mean christians practically make fun of those types of people, just read what churches put on their bill boards when you drive by.... not saying christians dont think, im just thinking of all the people I know, myself included who obviously think differently because we dont really dig what christianity is saying...
 
Shadowman, there is ignorance in the Christian community, just like there is in any religion. And there are also well-meaning people who say things and even post them on marquis that serve to run folks off in the opposite direction. I wish this did not happen, but it does. Christians are not perfect. They make mistakes. There's a big movement right now of Christian speech which, to me, has no gentleness in it. But you don't have to subscribe to that sort of thinking. I don't.

And if Christianity is just something you cannot handle, then why keep beating yourself and the Christian community up over it? I'm not going to say anything else in this regard because we are posting on the Christian board. But I'd just say you should listen to your heart.

I've got to go make lunch. I always hold you up into the light, shadowman. You can do this for yourself, if you want to.

InPeace,
InLove
 
I've got to go make lunch. I always hold you up into the light, shadowman. You can do this for yourself, if you want to.
Namaste Shadow and InLove...

WOW, do you have an idea how totally beautiful this statement is??

Shadowman... In order to have a shadow you must be bathed in (wisdom, everlasting love) the light!! Turn around man, quit focusing on the (darkness) shadow, focus on the light. You can do this if you want to! Choice! Choose what you read and contemplate...

I love the contemplation in those lines InLove wrote....Three sentences...First the material "I've got to make lunch", the Son, second sentence the spiritual, Our Father bathing you in light, only you can decide to close the curtains, third sentence the nudge of the Holy Spirit...

(and he says he's not a trinitarian)
 
I feel a nudge in my heart. IS that the holy spirit? I guess I find out when I die.

but how can I reconcile all the people going to hell in my mind? It just depresses me, leading me to think that religion is a big mind game. if we just rot in the ground when we die. someone is gonna be laughing
 
shadowman said:
I feel a nudge in my heart. IS that the holy spirit? I guess I find out when I die.

but how can I reconcile all the people going to hell in my mind? It just depresses me, leading me to think that religion is a big mind game. if we just rot in the ground when we die. someone is gonna be laughing

I only have a minute here to post, shadowman. So I have to just say things quickly. Maybe it IS. :)

I can only tell you that I asked the same question not too long ago in a hospital room. The one about how could I reconcile all those people "going to hell". I asked not to die before I could do this. I lived, and I was shown a great thing. I cannot reconcile this for you, but you can trust this Spirit to show you if you want to know.

I will tell you that I am terminally ill, or so say the doctors. But I am not worried about what happens to my body. I know my spirit will live. And maybe we will all laugh and there will be no tears someday. We can get started on this right now. Turn from fear and live. That's all I know how to say, except that there is no need to feel anything but love for the figure of Christ. Christ was and is much misunderstood, I believe. But that does not mean that He is not trustworthy.

All my love and prayers--it will be okay. Just let it be.

InPeace,
InLove
 
I just see turning to christ as turning to the source of fear itself. If I didnt think there was some judgement comming up, I wouldnt have anything to fear. And I wouldnt turn to christ for peace of mind...

The reason my mind is in turmoil is because gods judgement is putting people in hell. The reason im afraid is because of god on judgement day. so turning to him is like turning to the abusive husband or something.

Christ is gonna judge all of us. And he judges unfavorably towards us. this is what paul makes clear. Why does god make imperfect creatures and then punish them for their imperfections? whats the point of that? and who benefits from it?

he hates us all so much on one level. think of all the people he sends to hell by judging them guilty for being sinners. Without jesus all of us, you me, anyone would be going to hell when we died.

why does god even bother creating hell bound humans in the first place. If he has enough heart to save some of us by offering jesus. he should just get rid of hell and give everyone what he would give to them if they turned to jesus...
 
he hates us all so much on one level. think of all the people he sends to hell by judging them guilty for being sinners.
Can you name one person that you know Jesus judged and sent to hell? One person Jesus hates?

Can anyone prove that Jesus has judged anyone to go to hell?
 
. without original sin, making me worthy of gods wrath, I wouldnt need a savior

its what the bible says
 
[B said:
shadowman[/B]]He hates us all so much on one level. think of all the people he sends to hell by judging them guilty for being sinners.
Still waiting for you to tell me who he judged as guilty...
. without original sin, making me worthy of gods wrath, I wouldnt need a savior

its what the bible says
Didja ever contemplate that you are discussing the old testament, the Jewish Bible, and they don't believe in original sin? Where did that change? And how do we know more than those that authored it?
 
and tell us the deal to our face, not after we die when it is too late?
he does tell you ,but many dont listen , and we dont need to die to get the truth of the bible .
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. John 17;3
 
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