Ego

It's an important question for everyone. We may find that we've defined our self by our marriage, our house, our job/qualifications, bank account, our looks etc. But what happens when all this fades- what's left?

Salaam Br. Bruce

My submission and love of G-d of course. :D:D:D

When someone tries to force you into a decision, just tell them that you'll consider it.

That is excellent advice, I shall take that on board.

My apologies, you were probably looking for an in depth intellectual discussion about ego and I have reduced it down to my simplistic ramblings. I shall leave others to debate ego now but thank you, your topic has sent me on a voyage of discovery and changed my mind about the word ego. I can now see that it can be a positive as well as a negative.

Peace & Blessings
Sally
 
Absolutely MW, it might be said that ego is merely what the other fellow suffers from :0)
 
Absolutely MW, it might be said that ego is merely what the other fellow suffers from :0)

Ah yes but when you are the other fellow, it gets a little worrying.

I really have been giving this subject much thought. The secret seems to be finding the right balance between being confident with who you are and not allowing that to spill over into arrogance.

Simplicity - the secret to a happy life :D
 
Salaam Br. Bruce

My submission and love of G-d of course. :D:D:D



That is excellent advice, I shall take that on board.

My apologies, you were probably looking for an in depth intellectual discussion about ego and I have reduced it down to my simplistic ramblings. I shall leave others to debate ego now but thank you, your topic has sent me on a voyage of discovery and changed my mind about the word ego. I can now see that it can be a positive as well as a negative.

Peace & Blessings
Sally

Your comments were not simplistic Sally, it is all part of our daily lives. Our ability to make free decisions is a "work in progress".

We have a lower ego and a higher ego.

I could have added the the highest expression of the 'I' that has been seeded in our soul is termed the Consciousness Soul or Arterial Self. This is why it is so important today to not encroach upon people's personal freedoms.

The spirit forming an "I" and living as 'I', or ego or self of man is called Spirit Self; or Higher Manas in theosophical literature.

Heartily,
Br.Bruce
 
It might also be worth adding that the Theosophical, or esoteric presentation of `Ego' is one of evolving Consciousness, and not something static, though it sometimes seems that way in the Human Kingdom.

Before there is the Higher Ego present, the true Individuality, there is still Consciousness, but it is not (self-)reflective. There is also what Theosophists call a `group soul.' Modern science, especially the social sciences, recognize this as the herd instinct. And it is observable in a flock of birds, where the entire flock behaves as one. Notice that this is automatic, however, and not at all a CONSCIOUS CHOICE of each, "individual" bird (imagine that - several hundred birds all having to DECIDE whether or not to turn and move in another direction ... talk about chaos!!!). :p

We can also see the herd instinct in - herds! In the plains of Africa, or the jungles of the Amazon, animals are (or were) largely undomesticated, and tend to behave according to the unconscious group soul. But there are several, domesticating lines, whereby the animal soul (the true, Transcendent, Reincarnating Entity) gradually evolves towards Humanity. We can see these in the cat, dog, elephant, horse and monkey. This evolution occurs both in response to the magnetic Will of Deity (drawing forth the future Individual Soul out of the herd, as it were), as well as due to the immediate (or physical) presence & influence of Humanity upon the animal forms and consciousness.

So, looking backward, so to speak, we can see our own past within the Animal Kingdom, as the unconscious Group Soul slowly developed towards Individuality, proceeding along the lines of domestication, until eventually a pet dog or cat reached the APEX of Animal Evolution. There are no current opportunities on Earth for animals to enter the Human Kingdom, but in a future cycle the animals which have currently reached the Human stage will begin their Human evolutionary trek, just as we did upon this planet many millions of years ago (or upon the Moon, long long ages prior).

If we look in the other direction, and consider that Consciousness is actually a Continuum, we can see that our Soul's awareness is NOT proceeding toward a more & more refined, or developed, sense of "I" - or at least, not in the sense that modern psychology or Buddhists define the word `ego'. Instead, we are moving away from a sense of "I-ness" (or Ahamkara, in Sanskrit terms), and TOWARDS a sense of "WE-ness." The reason for this, is that once we enter the Human Kingdom, as all upon Earth have done in long ages past, we DEVELOP the sense of "I-ness" more and more acutely, so that we, most of us, have reached the apotheosis of `isolated selfhood' in our PAST ... and do not need to pursue this development any further. For some upon Earth, this is not the case, and we can observe this as those who "have not" increasingly take their rightful place (Evolutionarily speaking) as the "haves." They are still coming into their OWN, as the Divine Plan allows and affords for all.

Where most of us are heading, now that we've allowed the development of the isolated, egotistical (or lower self, ego-centered) consciousness to reach its fullest ... is toward a relationship with our Higher Ego, or the SOUL on its own plane. In exoteric religious terms, this is often simply spoken of as Serving God, or seeking God, Uniting with God, allowing God into our lives, etc. The Soul, while not God in the sense of the Highest, is nevertheless our Intermediary, or the `Face of God,' as it is referred to in the Priestly Blessing (Prayer of the Kohanim). It is that portion of the Divine Countenance which shines within the lives of each one of us, and which draws us, magnetically, back unto the Deity Whom and Which sent us all forth. It does this Lovingly, Intelligently and in perfect accordance with Divine Will. Ours is to learn how to Cooperate with the Soul (aka God's Will, literally the Angel of the Presence), rather than to willfully resist and cause unnecessary struggle and suffering.

The future course, for all of us, is one of gradually increasingly IDENTITY as the SOUL, which means that we are all slowly learning about our Divine Heritage, as well as our Divine Potential ... and how very natural (if also difficult) it is that we should come to Serve God, rather than to live for the separated self. In truth, there is no separated self, as this has been a necessary - but only temporary - identification of Consciousness (the Soul Aspect) with the form. Without this stage, in between that of the animal consciousness (non self-reflective, thus GROUP in the subconscious sense) and the Divine (GROUP in the Conscious, GREATER-SELF-reflective sense), the Plan could not continue. Humanity is a necessary, a VITAL, and a wonderful, Joyous stage in God's Plan of Evolution, wherein we learn what it means to experience CHOICE, and ultimately to yield our own desires, even our very will, our Identity, for that of something Higher, and Greater - the Greatest Good of the Greatest number. :)
 
Dear Br.Andrew,
>So, looking backward, so to speak, we can see our own past within the >Animal Kingdom, as the unconscious Group Soul slowly developed towards >Individuality, proceeding along the lines of domestication, until eventually >a pet dog or cat reached the APEX of Animal Evolution.

There is a theosophical doctrine that the animals came from Man and not the other way around.
The animals were "cast off" by primitive Man and this process will continue in the future. The animals then, are our brothers.

>Instead, we are moving away from a sense of "I-ness" (or Ahamkara, in >Sanskrit terms), and TOWARDS a sense of "WE-ness."

The development of the 'I' has of course led to an increasing sense of aloneness. Not only have we been separated from other humans but we are also in isolation from the spiritual beings. As we develop we will be able to return to a real sense of community with all, but this time with a full sense of individuality.

The point is, we don't revert into a great soup-mix of beings; we retain of sense of self. I mean, what is the point of developing the 'I' only to lose it completely again?

Fond Regards,
Br.Bruce
 
There is a theosophical doctrine that the animals came from Man and not the other way around.
The animals were "cast off" by primitive Man and this process will continue in the future. The animals then, are our brothers.
True, Br Bruce, but this refers to their forms, and not to the SOUL aspect. The Consciousness, the Evolving Life within the form, emerges from the mineral, through the vegetable, then the animal ... and finally the Human Kingdom. We "graduate" as Souls (and not as forms), and move on to the 5th Kingdom (where we no longer wear the Biblical "coats of skin" created during the earlier Root Races). So we "cast off" the animal forms, on planet Earth, yet we also evolved from within similar forms, AS consciousness, either on the Moon Chain - or upon Earth, in Lemurian or Atlantean times.

I think Steiner taught some of this, though I see things about Saturn, and that's way beyond me!!!

Bruce Michael said:
Instead, we are moving away from a sense of "I-ness" (or Ahamkara, in >Sanskrit terms), and TOWARDS a sense of "WE-ness."

The development of the 'I' has of course led to an increasing sense of aloneness. Not only have we been separated from other humans but we are also in isolation from the spiritual beings. As we develop we will be able to return to a real sense of community with all, but this time with a full sense of individuality.

The point is, we don't revert into a great soup-mix of beings; we retain of sense of self. I mean, what is the point of developing the 'I' only to lose it completely again?

Fond Regards,
Br.Bruce
Yep. Somehow this gets completely misunderstood, though, as we ponder Eastern teachings. And yet, to be certain, Christ exemplified what it means to live, walk and breathe AS A SOUL, completely and fully GROUP-Conscious, yet also as a Great Individuality. We simply do not have anything with which to compare His state of awareness ... from our normal, everyday experience.

Even the disciples could not understand what the heck He was talking about most of the time, though I'm sure they all had glimpses. :)

I would go one step further, and suggest that the reason so many people cannot understand God, is that we cast god in our image ... wherein lower ego still rules out, and wins the day, over Higher (most of the time). Once we begin to balance the needs of the many, with the needs of the one, it will become increasingly clear that the needs of the separated self can never outweigh the Greatest Good of the Greatest number (or of the Whole) ... Star Trek philosophy aside.

But we must first learn to uncreate god in our own image, and realize that it was form GOD's image, that we were created! Not so easy a thing to accomplish, considering that the Mystery of Identity is not made fully clear to us until a very high Initiation ...

Thus is the teaching of the Masters from HPB's day forward ... but this does not mean we cannot learn to Love, and to do as Christ did (or as the other Masters have done), even today. :)

Love and Light,

~andrew
 
Hi Andrew,
>I think Steiner taught some of this, though I see things about Saturn, and >that's way beyond me!!!

These diagrams are from Max Heindel's Rosicrucian Cosmo Conception- but they are based on Steiner's teachings:
-Br. Bruce


diag7.gif





diag8.gif
 
Hi Andrew,
>I think Steiner taught some of this, though I see things about Saturn, and >that's way beyond me!!!

These diagrams are from Max Heindel's Rosicrucian Cosmo Conception- but they are based on Steiner's teachings:
-Br. Bruce

Yes, I'm quite familiar with these diagrams, Bruce ... I have a copy of the above volume. :)

One small problem, however. Steiner, and Heindel, whomever they may attribute these diagrams and teachings to, will have to explain to my satisfaction why they differ with the presentation of the Tibetan Master. The latter gave out, via Alice Bailey, and even via H.P. Blavatsky beforehand, a different indication as to when the Saturn period and other periods come into play.

To wit:
chart2a.jpg

Naturally, as an Anthroposophist, you may have a certain allegiance to Steiner, Heindel, etc. My own belief is that their teachings may have been inspired, but I will - naturally enough - prefer those given out via Alice Bailey. There is agreement between Theosophists and Anthroposophists that the Moon Chain immediately preceded the Earth Chain. But DK (Djwhal Khul, The Tibetan) indicates the order as being:
  1. Neptune
  2. Venus
  3. Saturn
  4. Earth
  5. Mercury
  6. Mars
  7. Jupiter
Note that instead of labeling the 3rd Chain as `Moon,' DK has indicated `Saturn,' for reasons which I cannot, offhand, recall. I have never read A Treatise on Cosmic Fire all the way through, but you may rest assured that he makes it quite clear that the Moon Chain preceded Earth ... regardless of what we see in the label of the above diagram.

Chains 1, 2, 5, 6 & 7 ... would seem to differ, however, between the two Teachings.
(I would also comment, and commit to our notice, that DK's chart provides a geometrical aspect which, imho, veils much information that the insightful student should be able to discern. I do not say that I have discerned it, but we may safely assume that his charts are useful even for the Initiate who seeks to take his development further. The Tibetan Master, btw, is one of the most knowledgeable in all the Earth Hierarchy, regarding astrology and related matters ... such as we are delving into. Another Master, the Senior-Most of the Hierarchy, Who is known as an expert on Astrology, is Lord Agastya, Master Jupiter, Master Narayan, The `Old Gentleman' - as HPB knew Him, the Rishi of the Nilgiri Hills, hence Lord Nylghara, etc.)

Interesting!!!

~Andrew
 
Muslimwoman said:
I find it interesting that people seem to think of ego in a positive way, yet I can only view it as a negative.
Just wondering, does the id and superego have a place in your systems ... or is the Freudian make-up extraneous (as you point out, ego had a meaning long before Freud redefined it)?
As I understand it, the Greek and Latin languages preceeded Christianity and Islam. In both the Bible and Qur'an, in Latin and Greek... God, Allah, everyone from Adam to Jesus, Muhammad... all refer to themselves directly as 'EGO'. Am I to assume that each are referring to themselves as this allegedly negative, non-humble, 'EGO'? A relatively newer evolved language... English... has the two different words 'I' and 'ego'. So then it is easy to assign an entirely different character to the Latin / Greek word 'ego'. If I visit the only place on the planet where people might still speak Latin... the Vatican... will I find people using the word 'EGO' as a non-humble self important pride? Or is it used by anyone describing or referring to themselves... as in 'I'?

It is no different than alleged Christians saying that 'Allah' and 'God' are entirely different, on the one hand, yet while also publishing Arabic bibles with the Arabic word 'Allah' in place of 'God'. As the transliteration becomes a new distinct word in one language it provides two distinct words to attach different meanings. Then the translation back really corrupts and causes nothing but strife.

Therefore in my vocabulary 'Ego' is not a bad word and is closely associated with a 'soul' in three major languages... and I'd use a better word like 'narcissistic' to describe the condition of selfishness or self-importance. If in the pursuit of humbleness it is preferred to be a faithless apathetic drone or slave, then maybe both the words 'EGO' and 'I' belong in the dumpster of negative traits. 'Ego' don't think so.
 
Hi Andrew,
Steiner's system follows the days of the week, which are a microcosmic picture of the macrocosmic evolution.
Earth is also Mars/Mercury.

There is an Old Saturn (Chronos), Old Moon and Old Sun, which were repeated on this Globe.
The first half of the Lemurian epoch was a repetition of the Old Moon. At the mid point of the Lemurian Epoch the Moon left the Earth/Moon- the beginning of the separation of the sexes. The Moon departed the Earth in the area we know as the Pacific Ocean.

-Br.Bruce
 
Here's meditation that serves to strengthen the 'I'.

Given in English to an English pupil by Dr. Steiner.
In the Morning:
Picture to yourself that you are in the midst of cosmic space, surrounded by Light, and that a voice comes to you from the four points of the compass (a single voice, but coming from four different directions) speaking to you:- "Be a strong I. Give thy heart to the Spirit of the World."
(Be very quiet in your soul
after this meditation.)
In the Evening:
Review the day in backward order from evening till morning.
Picture to yourself that you are in the depths of cosmic space, surrounded by Darkness, and that you are speaking to the Full Moon in the East:-
"I will be a strong I. I will give my heart to the Spirit of the World."
(Be very quiet in your soul after this meditation)



-Br.Bruce
 
Dear Friends,
The development of Man up to this point has been to enhance the separateness of the individuality, and selfishness is part of this. The mission of alcohol played its part too.

In ancient times we experienced our "I" most naturally in all that was around us- the spiritual world as well. The mystic sought to regain some of this consciousness - "I am this world". This was the old tribal consciousness which still persists in some of our Australian Aboriginals.

This sense of individuality has left us with a loneliness, which is very apparent today.

The development of this separate "I" will not end here, but in a voluntary co-operative society in the future- known as the Sixth Race, or Philadelphia in Revelations. (The Six Sub Race will be the seed of the Sixth Root Race.)


"For selfless deeds are the real foundations of immortality: this is the reflex of selfless deeds in the outer world."​
-R. Steiner

Another paradox- we only get to keep what we give away.

"To do something for the higher self is not selfish because it is not done only for the self. The higher self will be united with all other higher selves, so that is done for all at the same time."
RS
"A tiny handful of men will save themselves and pass over to the Sixth epoch. This tiny handful will have developed complete selflessness."
RS

Compassion for self is a caring for oneself, it is not egotism. So many times today we hear of people hating themselves and sometimes suiciding because of that hate. Compassion for self is right and correct, so is a strong I AM or ego-identity. Conceit is a different matter.

Vanity gives us a false view of ourselves in our relationship to the world.
We may tempted to lie to ourselves about self, because we are pained by some of our faults. Marcus Aurelius has some wonderful things to say in his Meditations about a healthy view of self- all the more important considering his status as the most powerful man in the world of his time.

Our true enduring self is our higher self. Our personality will perish at the end of this life.



-Br.Bruce
 
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