Sinners - and Saving Them

taijasi

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Excerpted from Vision of the Nazarene, not because I cannot think for myself, or make my thoughts and feelings known (have I not done so?) ... but because I also value the direct Teaching of the Nazarene Master on this matter:
And the Master said:

Alas, for those who seek only to save themselves; for he who would save himself must strive to save others, because that very striving is the door which leads to salvation.

Truly, blessed to me is the figure who stands with one hand stretched high to receive, and the other hand stretched out to give; for God gives to those who give unto others.

And yet only the wise and joyful ones know how to give, for the foolish have nothing to offer except sad looks and lugubrious words, and a nebulous far-away reward.

"Believe as we do," they say, "and try to be like the `Man of Sorrows,' and thy reward shall be the entrance into a far-away place of continual worship, when thou art dead." But they do not add, "We ourselves have never seen that place"; and they forget that erewhile I said the Kingdom of Heaven is within and around you.

O my wise ones, what manner of a physician is he who says to his patients: "My medicine will cure thee some day very far hence?" For the skilled physician is he who can cure his patients here and now or in the near future.

But alas, much of the desire to "save" others is based upon vanity and not upon Love: for it arises not from the selfless wish that others may attain spiritual joy, but that those who seek to save them may take credit to themselves.

Countless times, through lack of understanding, have my followers besought God, saying: "Have mercy upon us, miserable sinners." Yet I say unto thee, he who repeatedly calls himself a miserable sinner blasphemes in the depths of his ignorance. For man is potentially divine and his spirit was made perfect in the image of God and is one with God.

Ay, this doctrine did I teach long ago when I said: I and my Father are One. Yet because of nescience, doubters called me a braggart and my followers exalted me as an exception to the Divine rule.

Yet what I said once I say again, and thus do I bid men to pray: "Because Thou and I are one, O Father, help me to manifest in my mind and body more of Thy Perfection, that I may become what in reality I am - the Essence of Love and Bliss."

So saith the Lord ...
 
Countless times, through lack of understanding, have my followers besought God, saying: "Have mercy upon us, miserable sinners." Yet I say unto thee, he who repeatedly calls himself a miserable sinner blasphemes in the depths of his ignorance. For man is potentially divine and his spirit was made perfect in the image of God and is one with God.


Are we not accountable to God? You speak of ignorance, that man is potentially divine, yet how does one realize the divine unless exposed to it? Do you understand the righteousness of God? Our ignorance is in not knowing that righteousness, for it is within that righteousness that we gain the capability to love. One who cries out to God, "Have mercy upon me a sinner", knows the vast separation between his own "righteousness" and the righteousness of God. Where the sinner is is not where he needs to be, so in calling out to God, it is a plea to be made right. The Mercy of God allows the person to step toward the Divine once again, plotting his steps ever more cautiously on the tightrope for which he must walk. Grace is the safety net to catch the fallen, so that he may climb back on and continue on. "Be ye holy as I am holy" We tend to look at this word "holy" in grandeur terms, as if we could attain it by being more pious. But holiness is more than attitude or religious action, it is an orientation. How much do you want to be like God?

The sinner knows how short he falls from that ideal. So does God. But it is in the cooperation of both parties that the realization is made. The old "drowning man" scenerio still holds. God tosses out the life preserver to the sinner, but the sinner must grab hold for dear life as he is pull in. Salvation is mutual.

What is it to be divine if it isn't to be Divine?
 
You speak of ignorance, that man is potentially divine, yet how does one realize the divine unless exposed to it?
I can only imagine, that the Master would puzzle at your question, and would ask you, "Dondi, did I not do just that? Did I not teach you about God, and show you God's Ways in my thoughts, words and deeds?"

Dondi said:
Where the sinner is is not where he needs to be, so in calling out to God, it is a plea to be made right.
And again, the Master might say, "Did I not take action when I walked the earth before?" This is the way by which we are "made right."

Dondi said:
How much do you want to be like God?
Yes, this is Christ's question to you ...

Dondi said:
God tosses out the life preserver to the sinner, but the sinner must grab hold for dear life as he is pull in. Salvation is mutual.
More than that, the sinner must be willing to LET GO of his sinfulness. Stop clinging to something which God does not intend, and will not allow, you to take into Heaven. :eek:

Nor is Salvation a free ride. This is the greatest mistake that the theologians have made. And they each, in their time, discover their mistakes ... or are reminded of how foolish it was to seek to deceive, in the name of God, for personal gain, power, and influence.
 
I can only imagine, that the Master would puzzle at your question, and would ask you, "Dondi, did I not do just that? Did I not teach you about God, and show you God's Ways in my thoughts, words and deeds?"
And again, the Master might say, "Did I not take action when I walked the earth before?" This is the way by which we are "made right."

Yeah, you sure did. Now can You autograph my copy of Your Book?

More than that, the sinner must be willing to LET GO of his sinfulness. Stop clinging to something which God does not intend, and will not allow, you to take into Heaven. :eek:

Nor is Salvation a free ride. This is the greatest mistake that the theologians have made. And they each, in their time, discover their mistakes ... or are reminded of how foolish it was to seek to deceive, in the name of God, for personal gain, power, and influence.

Not often we agree, Andrew. But glad to know that this time it is on this very important point. :)
 
Yeah, you sure did. Now can You autograph my copy of Your Book?
Vision of the Nazarene, taken down by Cyril Scott, a student of the Nazarene Master at the time. I believe most people refer to him as `Jesus.' :)
 
Most people seem pretty good. Saved, unsaved, washed, unwashed- good people seem to outnumber bad anywhere you go. I haven't noticed that believers as a whole are any better people than non-believers anywhere I've been. I can't see where being saved makes any difference in this life except that the concept is a control meme.

Chris
 
Most people seem pretty good. Saved, unsaved, washed, unwashed- good people seem to outnumber bad anywhere you go. I haven't noticed that believers as a whole are any better people than non-believers anywhere I've been. I can't see where being saved makes any difference in this life except that the concept is a control meme.

Chris
Esoteric significances aside (and maybe that's pretty much a given), I couldn't agree with you more wholeheartedly, Chris! ;)
 
Why does one need to 'save' a 'sinner', it seems pretty clear that the you aren't doing the saving, God is.
I think this is the answer to your question, in a great many cases:
But alas, much of the desire to "save" others is based upon vanity and not upon Love: for it arises not from the selfless wish that others may attain spiritual joy, but that those who seek to save them may take credit to themselves.
 
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