Christian Brotherhood

[Bruce Michael]

[FONT=&quot]Dear Companions,
Rudolf Steiner repeatably said that the coming race was one of Christian Brotherhood:
[/FONT]

"But from a small colony in the East [in foot note: The Slavonic
peoples] there will be developed, as though from a seed, new life for the future.
The economic needs of existence will then be separated from work: there will be no more personal possession, everything will
be owned in common. One will no longer work for one's personal
existence, but will do everything as absolute offering for humanity."​

[FONT=&quot]
Rudolf Steiner, Foundations of Esotericism, lecture 8, Rudolf Steiner
Press, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]London[/FONT][FONT=&quot], 1983, p. 232.

Christian Socialism is the keynote of the Sixth Epoch- all the quotes point to it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

A problem in understanding this is the confusion of Ahrimanic Socialism with Christian Socialism:

"An impulse in life can be harmful by itself, but can be beneficial in co-operation with other impulses..."​

[/FONT]

"If socialism, in the crude materialistic form in which it appears today, attempts to force itself upon mankind, it will bring the greatest unhappiness upon humanity. It is symbolised by Ahriman...."

"If the false freedom of thought, which wants to stop short at every thought and make it valid, seeks to force itself, then harm is again brought to mankind. ."​

[FONT=&quot]
Ancient Myths their Meaning & Connection with Evolution, Lect 5, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]11th
Jan 1918[/FONT][FONT=&quot].


-Br.Bruce[/FONT]

 

[Bruce Michael]

From the Anthroposophical viewpoint, 20th century socialism and communism were both "in a hurry", because they are both impulses supplanted from the future and forced on societies in an unhealthy way.

In the Christian socialism of the future, every human being who can say "not I but Christ in me" has not the desire to guard his own little stack at the expense of others. Need not greed, becomes the the overriding principle. The carrot and stick approach of individual greed, will be replaced by an impulse of love.

In fact, it won't be just material goods that are shared, Dr. Steiner also speaks of the possibility of us taking on the karma of others.

This is really Rudolf Steiner's teaching on the matter, but there are those who want to extend past impulses into the future where they do not belong. These folk are just as bad as the Marxists and others who wanted to force future impulses on an unprepared humanity.

We are making those decisions in the here and now which will bear fruit in the future. Whether we incarnate amongst the "good" humanity or "evil" humanity of the future, depends on our intentions and actions today. And Rudolf says that the site for the "evil" humanity has already been pegged out in the American continent.

The Communism of the past was quite anti spiritual, anti-religious. The arid society that was Albania, is an example of what you get with a completely atheistic/secular government.

Marx had a big chip on his shoulder remaining from his previous incarnation. His argument with unfairness seemed to extend from man up to God as well. An understanding of karma may have been a big help to him.

Our true position now lies between strength in our selfhood and understanding our place in the collective. If we confine ourselves to self we become raving egotists/meglomaniacs. If we deny our I Am, and dissolve into group mind, we commit a crime against ourselves, and Christ.




-Br.Bruce

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Br.Bruce,

"christian socialism"... that's a term which frightens me.

taking on anothers karma? that's an interesting understanding of karma... clearly not a Buddhadharma one. i'm curious though where dr. steiner gained his understanding of this term. do you happen to know by any chance?

metta,

~v

 

[seattlegal]

Namaste Br.Bruce,

"christian socialism"... that's a term which frightens me.

~v

Me, too.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Namaste Br.Bruce,

"christian socialism"... that's a term which frightens me.

As opposed to what, Christian imperialism? Christian predatory capitalism? Christian colonialism?

One can read in the New Testament about how the early Christian community was practicing, or was attempting to practice an egalitarian form of communism.

Chris

 

[17th Angel]

[FONT=&quot]Dear Companions,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rudolf Steiner repeatably said that the coming race was one of Christian Brotherhood:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]-Br.Bruce[/FONT]

That sounds.... WAAAAAY too master race to me lol...... The coming race of the christian brotherhood? lol, do you wear white hoods?

 

[Virtual_Cliff]

If we confine ourselves to self we become raving egotists/meglomaniacs. If we deny our I Am, and dissolve into group mind, we commit a crime against ourselves, and Christ.
-Br.Bruce

A point well made, Bruce. If we become too self-effacing we erase ourselves completely and become useless.

As the psalmist says "Oh how good and oh how pleasant it is when brothers (and sisters) live together in unity." I fail to see what is frightening about that.

Cliff

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste China Cat Sunflower,

thank you for the post.

As opposed to what, Christian imperialism? Christian predatory capitalism? Christian colonialism?

not opposed to anything, simply the term is one which is too close to an ideology which i would not find comfortable being regulated into.



metta,

~v

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste viritual cliff,

thank you for the post.

A point well made, Bruce. If we become too self-effacing we erase ourselves completely and become useless.

that is certainly one view... one which the Buddhadharma would demonstrate to be incorrect, in my estimation. it is only when a being can break the shell of grasping ego that they can then be of altruistic benefit to all beings.

As the psalmist says "Oh how good and oh how pleasant it is when brothers (and sisters) live together in unity." I fail to see what is frightening about that.

Cliff

as a Christian i wouldn't expect that you'd mind being a Christian.. as a non-Chrisitan i would certainly mind being forced into your religious paradigm.

metta,

~v

 

[Bruce Michael]

Namaste Br.Bruce,

"christian socialism"... that's a term which frightens me.

Hi V,
It is not unusual to fear the unknown.

taking on anothers karma? that's an interesting understanding of karma... clearly not a Buddhadharma one. i'm curious though where dr. steiner gained his understanding of this term. do you happen to know by any chance?

metta,

~v

Sorry I can't find the exact reference right now.
There are too many references to karma in the lectures that are already online.
Searching On-Line Steiner Lectures (Alphabetically)

Cheerio,
Br.Bruce

 

[Bruce Michael]

Me, too.

Hello,
Theosophists (and others) refer to the Coming Race as the Sixth (sub) Race. Those who are considered to be advanced souls are already named "Sixth Racers".
There also has been speculation as to which continent the new community will arise- Philadelphia.

Preparing for the Sixth Epoch, Rudolph Steiner
Lecture: Preparing for the Sixth Epoch

A man today must be delicately organized for his soul to feel pain when he sees other human beings in the world in less happy circumstances than his own. It is true that more delicately organized natures feel pain at the suffering that is so widespread in the world, but this can only be said of the people who are particularly sensitive. In the sixth epoch, the most highly cultured will not only feel pain such as is caused today by the sight of poverty, suffering and misery in the world, but such individuals will experience the suffering of another human being as their own suffering. If they see a hungry man they will feel the hunger right down into the physical, so acutely indeed that the hunger of the other man will be unendurable to them. The moral characteristic indicated here is that, unlike conditions in the fifth epoch, in the sixth epoch the well-being of the individual will depend entirely upon the well-being of the whole.

The above might indeed be frightening for some.

Greetings,
Br.Bruce

 

[Bruce Michael]

That sounds.... WAAAAAY too master race to me lol...... The coming race of the christian brotherhood? lol, do you wear white hoods?

Dear 17th,
Mr. Hitler's conception of the Master Race was not how it is to be:
.

His vision of a master race was out of time and out of place. The demons had the last laugh, when he himself mistook the future grandeur of humanity, for the very creatures who would contrive to see such perfection unrealized.

-The Brothers
I'd imagine you'd wear whatever you wanted to wear.

Lecture: Preparing for the Sixth Epoch

complete freedom of thought and a longing for it will so lay hold of men that what a man likes to believe, what religious convictions he holds, will rest wholly within the power of his own individuality. Collective beliefs that exist in so many forms today among the various communities will no longer influence those who constitute the civilized portion of humanity in the sixth epoch of culture. Everyone will feel that complete freedom of thought in the domain of religion is a fundamental right of the human being.

Blessings,
Br.Bruce

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Br. Bruce,

thank you for the post.

Hi V,
It is not unusual to fear the unknown.

is it really necessary to resort to such tactics in our discussion?

Sorry I can't find the exact reference right now.
There are too many references to karma in the lectures that are already online.
Searching On-Line Steiner Lectures (Alphabetically)

Cheerio,
Br.Bruce

hmm... i glanced through that list which is, as you mentioned, quite extensive. in no place, however, did i see the word karma explained as it is understood in the Indian religious paradigms. since the term originates in this millieu it seems that one would use the definition that the term is intended to convey. what it appears is that Dr. Steiner has done what many, many non-Dharma adherents have done which is to confuse Karma and Vipaka with each other. in essence it is confusing the cause for the effect.

nevertheless, you have answered my question satisfactorily.

metta,

~v

 

[Virtual_Cliff]

that is certainly one view... one which the Buddhadharma would demonstrate to be incorrect, in my estimation. it is only when a being can break the shell of grasping ego that they can then be of altruistic benefit to all beings.

as a Christian i wouldn't expect that you'd mind being a Christian.. as a non-Chrisitan i would certainly mind being forced into your religious paradigm.

On the first point, my own view is that life is characterised by variety, by differentiation, but in death everything returns to the earth. It all depends whether you celebrate life or look forward to death. The ego is not the only aspect of ones personhood.

On the second point, the differences in practise of religions are no more significant than the similarities of their central tenets. Some of the apparent differences within Christianity are greater than the differences between faiths. I think we all get too hung up on labels.

Nonetheless I find any form of religious elitism unacceptable. Jesus said "Whoever would be greatest among you must be servant of all". Heightened awareness or sensitivity is no good if it does not lead to a more devoted service to others.

 

[17th Angel]

Dear 17th,
Mr. Hitler's conception of the Master Race was not how it is to be:
.
-The Brothers
I'd imagine you'd wear whatever you wanted to wear.

Not saying this "christian brotherhood" would be inline with hitlers views... It just sounds very master race.... Something special, something better than anyone else is coming! See what I mean? Just the way you worded it screams some kind of lynch mob master race group that love flanel as a design on clothing and white hoods.... lol That is all I was saying ya see....

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste virtual cliff,

thank you for the post.

On the first point, my own view is that life is characterised by variety, by differentiation, but in death everything returns to the earth. It all depends whether you celebrate life or look forward to death. The ego is not the only aspect of ones personhood.

what do you mean by "everything" in this regard? i would certainly agree that the physical forms dissolution allows the atmoic structure to break down into its constituant parts, though that may not be what you are meaning to say.

i'm fairly confident that the dissolution of the atomic structure upon the ceasing of this physical form is operative regardless of ones philosophical outlook.

nor did i indicate otherwise, regarding personhood, such that it is. given your view that "we become too self-effacing we erase ourselves completely and become useless." i thought it apropos to point out that there is a religious paradigm which takes the opposite view.

On the second point, the differences in practise of religions are no more significant than the similarities of their central tenets. Some of the apparent differences within Christianity are greater than the differences between faiths. I think we all get too hung up on labels.

whilst i agree that being ensnared by conceptional ideation is problematic i would not agree that the difference in religious praxis is inconsequential. the Christian paradigm is frequenly seen as a monolithic whole which, as we both know, is a misunderstanding of the tradition.

Nonetheless I find any form of religious elitism unacceptable. Jesus said "Whoever would be greatest among you must be servant of all". Heightened awareness or sensitivity is no good if it does not lead to a more devoted service to others.

i happen to think that once ones awareness has sufficiently expanded the natural outgrowth of this process is to be of greater benefit to others. a beings expanding awareness is inherently valuable, in my estimation, regardless if said awareness is extended to being of benefit to others.

metta,

~v

 

[Bruce Michael]

Not saying this "christian brotherhood" would be inline with hitlers views... It just sounds very master race.... Something special, something better than anyone else is coming! See what I mean? Just the way you worded it screams some kind of lynch mob master race group that love flanel as a design on clothing and white hoods.... lol That is all I was saying ya see....

I do know of a Christian group that wear Kaftans/Nighties. Not that they are a representative of the Sixth Epoch.

Hope Farm

White is difficult to care for.

Something better is coming. That is evolution. We can become Christian more and more. Humans should wish for the very best and not be satisfied with mean wishes.

What do you think "becoming Christian more and more" means?

-Br.Bruce

 

[Bruce Michael]

A point well made, Bruce. If we become too self-effacing we erase ourselves completely and become useless.

As the psalmist says "Oh how good and oh how pleasant it is when brothers (and sisters) live together in unity." I fail to see what is frightening about that.

Cliff

Yes Cliff,
As Christians we understand humility and selflessness, but we do not seek to deny our "I am".

Let me present a definition for this "I am" from a Lodge of Christian Teachers:

The ‘I am’ of Man is the highest egoic condition of the individual, upright and quite perfect, Christ-given, of Christ and of pure integrity. If we begin to search and sense our “I am-ness” this integrity helps us to have faith in our own decision making processes and helps us to come to egoic stances which otherwise may not have been possible. In the lowest context there can be self righteous behaviour, but even this sense of selfhood comes from intrinsic goodness being known and acted upon in mind. The ‘I am’ is beingness in absolute fact and it is indestructible, through the power of Christ being woven through it- our core of being.

God Bless,
Br.Bruce

 

[Bruce Michael]

that is certainly one view... one which the Buddhadharma would demonstrate to be incorrect, in my estimation. it is only when a being can break the shell of grasping ego that they can then be of altruistic benefit to all beings.

Dear Vajradhara,
That "grasping ego" is only a lower condition of ego- really unrefined kama.

Who is this 'I' that is trying to be more altruistic? Does it seek peace & bliss?

From your your posts I sense a well developed healthy obstinacy. Where does that comes from?

I have posted before about the overwhelming force of ego that comes from mystical deepening and how it is overcome by Christian mystics:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/master-eckhart-clothing-yourself-with-7264.html

To help you understand what I mean when I say 'ego', read the following instruction from Dr.Steiner:

EGO
It is the vehicle of the human ‘ I ,’ of the human Ego. The little word ‘ I ’ — as used, for example, in the English language — is a name essentially different from all other names. To anyone who ponders rightly on the nature of this name, there is opened up at once a way of approach to a perception of man's real nature. The vehicle of this faculty of saying ‘ I ,’ of the Ego-faculty, is the ‘Body of the Ego,’ the fourth member of the human being.

This ‘Body of the Ego’ is the vehicle of the higher soul of man. Through it man is the crown of all earthly creation. Now in the human being of the present day the Ego is by no means simple in character.

This is what the growth and development of civilization means for man. It is a continual working of his Ego upon the lower members of his nature. The work penetrates right down into the physical body.

What we call ‘conscience’ is nothing else than the outcome of the work of the Ego on the life-body through incarnation after incarnation. When man begins to perceive that he ought not to do this or that, and when this perception makes so strong an impression on him that the impression passes on into his etheric body, ‘conscience’ arises.

The Ego may become so strong as to transform, by its very own power and strength, the astral/sentient body. What the Ego then makes of the Sentient or Astral Body is called ‘Spirit-Self’ (or by an Eastern expression, ‘Manas’). This transformation is wrought mainly through a process of learning, through an enriching of one's inner life with higher ideas and perceptions.....

Happy Trails,
Br.Bruce

 

[Virtual_Cliff]

(Sorry about the long delay - sorting out my son's battle with council tax).

Helminski says it better than I can:

A Common and shallow misunderstanding of the spiritual process consists in wanting to move directly from being an ego-driven individual to having "no self". But discovering our own presence is the beginning of being free of the compulsive and demanding ego.

All I was saying is that we should not allow our own presence to fade away.

Cliff