Theosophy and "races"

Status
Not open for further replies.

iBrian

Peace, Love and Unity
Veteran Member
Messages
6,542
Reaction score
30
Points
48
Location
Scotland
Years ago I remember reading about connections between the Nazi's and occult beliefs. I seem to recall a suggested influence from the Theosophy Society, specifically via Madame Blavatsky, about comments on the Seven Races of humanity, or something, and that a perception that worked its way into the Nazi mythology was the idea that the Jews did not fit into this original concept of races.

Obviously, because it was a long time ago, I'm probably somewhat muddled on the details.

However, could anyone enlighten me on the TS's concept of races, and how this may - or may not - have related to the Nazi perception of Jews as a race?
 
Brian,

The idea that "the Jews did not fit into this original concept of races" is not a Theosophical idea. I am afraid it is only part of Nazi mythology.

Theosophy says there will be a total of seven races. Five have appeared so far, and the sixth will appear in a few thousand years.

Theosophy does not see the Jews as a separate race. If the Nazis said this, it is their own idea.
 
in the original TS seal, or badge, there was a swastika in the middle...

they changed this to a tau cross, after germany lost the war...

In the original TS literature, Jews and Africans are from the "lemurian race"... we are also told that these other races are not as good as the aryan one, they are not as clever, not as well developed spiritually, etc, etc....

(I have posted pages b4 about this, direct quotes from the work of Alice Bailey, and also HPB, so will not bore u with them again unless u ask, and then I'll hunt them down!)

basically, there are seven root races, and the spiritual energy of the cosmos, the seven rays, work through these races... the effect of seven times seven gives us 49 rays... these different rays work on different aspects of man- his ego, his race, his will, etc, etc... as for the seven root races, the first race is the stupidest, and the last the most worthy...

now, u will get the TS members telling u different, but its there, in black and white, written down for all time... they have not changed their views regarding racial superiority, although they will try to excuse such ideology by suggesting that I am too much of a savage to understand what was really being said...

as much as I despise theosophy, and its teachings, in their defence I do not think that they were the originators of nazism- as u probably know, jews have been hated for centuries, not just by nazi's, but also by the russians, who we know liked their pogroms...

the zeitgeist, at the time theosophy was spawned, was such that intellectuals believed in these racial superiority themes, and such notions were perhaps more influenced by Darwanism and ideas such as natural selection than the TS, who did try to distance themselves from Nazism, but decided to keep their root races theory and "aryan" themes... but that's just my opinion...

as for jews not fitting into the original scheme of races- in alice baileys' esoteric psycholgy- section three, "the rays and man", 6b is entitled: "the jewish problem"...

the jews DID NOT FIT INTO THEIR ORIGINAL PATTERN OF RACE AND RAYS: the jews are considered (by bailey at least) to be a mix of anglo-europeans and assorted other races, and come from the second half of the Lemurian epoch... they are not considered to be a seperate race at all...
 
"...in the original TS seal, or badge, there was a swastika in the middle..."

--> It is still there, in a circle near the top. I have never seen a swastika in the middle of the Theosophical seal.


ts_emblem.gif


The Theosophical Seal by Arthur M.Coon

The swastika is an ancient Buddhist symbol, still in widespread use in Asia. (In Japan, a swastika is called a manji.) As a matter of fact, I had trouble getting used to seeing so many manji when I lived in Japan. For example, on Japanese tourist maps, the symbol for a Buddhist temple is a swastika.


180px-Taipei_subway_temple_symbol.jpg


"On maps in the Taipei subway system a swastika is employed to indicate a temple, next to a cross indicating a Christian church."

Swastika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Buddha statues are sometimes depicted with a manji painted on Buddha's chest. I will see if I can find a photo of one.

Here is a picture of a manji on a Korean temple.


180px-Buddhistswastika.jpg


"Swastika on a Buddhist temple in Korea."

Swastika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is a good discussion on Buddhism and the swastika/manji.

Board Message
 
Years ago I remember reading about connections between the Nazi's and occult beliefs. I seem to recall a suggested influence from the Theosophy Society, specifically via Madame Blavatsky, about comments on the Seven Races of humanity, or something, and that a perception that worked its way into the Nazi mythology was the idea that the Jews did not fit into this original concept of races.

Obviously, because it was a long time ago, I'm probably somewhat muddled on the details.

However, could anyone enlighten me on the TS's concept of races, and how this may - or may not - have related to the Nazi perception of Jews as a race?

Greetings Brian,
If you want a scholarly read on the above you can't go past Prof. Goodrick-Clarke's studies:
The Occult Roots of Nazism: The Ariosophists of Austria and Germany
Black Sun: Aryan Cults, Esoteric Nazism, and the Politics of Identity
Hitler's Priestess - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The word "Aryan" was/is commonly used in India; and in connection with yoga- the Arya Samarj.

The Theosophical Society once had the title of the Aryan Theosophical Society. But swastikas and "Aryan" predated Nazism by hundreds of years and have nothing to do with Jews.

An article by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke
Lapis Magazine - The Occult Roots of Nazism by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke
In the early years of the 20th century the ideas of the Theosophists were adopted by radical nationalists who wished to stress the importance of ancient Teutonic wisdom. Guido von List (1848-1919), a native of Vienna, identified himself as a guru of ancient Germanic mysteries. ...

In 1903 the theosophical publication Die Gnosis published an article in which List outlined the stages of a theosophical cosmogony, illustrated with symbols of sun wheels, the triskelion, and three- and four-armed swastikas. He wrote for the first time about the immortality of the soul, reincarnation, and karmic determination - all ideas borrowed from Theosophy. An important part of his gnosis was described as an old Aryan sexual religion, which took the form of a religiously sanctioned eugenic program designed to maintain the purity of the race. Here he was tapping into the ideas on root races that had been propounded by H P Blavatsky, founder of the Theosophical Society, but he was in fact specifying and identifying very much with the German Aryan race.

Occultism is free of the connotations of good and bad - it is neutral and can be used either way.
"Occultism is in its results one and the same for all mankind. In reality there is no such thing as a difference of standpoint in occultism — any more than there are different mathematics. It is only necessary in regard to any particular question to have the means actually at hand to acquire knowledge on that question, and the knowledge will be the same as is reached by everyone who has the right means at his disposal. Thus, speaking in the ideal sense, we can just as little admit the existence of different standpoints in occultism as we can imagine there might be different standpoints in mathematics. Consequently occultism, wherever it has made its appearance, has always been recognised as single and universal. It is true that in the various theosophies that have existed from time to time and have supplied the outer cloak, so to speak, of occult truths, differences show themselves; but that is because the truths have had to be clothed differently for one folk or one epoch, than for another folk or another epoch. In other words, the differences between the theosophies that exist on the Earth lie in the manner of thought used to clothe the occult truths. The foundations of occultism are always and everywhere one and the same...."

-Steiner

The first aim of the Theosophical Society is:


To form a nucleus of the Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, caste, or color.

Obviously Hitler would have none of that.

Shalom,
Br.Bruce
 
Thanks for the links, Bruce - will check them out later. :)

Swastikas - quick pointer - the Nazi's specifically used a *reversed Swastika*, with the arms pointing clockwise. That makes it a very distinct and unique symbol in its own right, by comparison to the normal spiritual symbol of the Swastika with the arms pointing anti-clockwise, which indeed has an ancient history of use.
 
jews certainly distinguish between the original, positive esoteric meanings and formulation of the oriental swastika and those of the distorted nazi symbol. they misused and perverted the swastika just like they did with their so-called science and everything else they touched. certainly nobody has a go at hindus for using the one that's the right way round - especially given the connections between that and the hebrew letter aleph. i suppose it's ironic that the nazis *reversed* the symbol, just as they reversed what it meant.

as for this:

AndrewX said:
Guess you better go fuss at the Jews...for their racist, bigoted worldview.
oh, really? so now you're calling jews racists and bigots? where the arse do you get off with that, mate? i think you'd better retract that remark or there's really going to be trouble.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
this is from wikipedia:

"...Blavatsky argued that humanity had descended from a series of "Root Races", naming the fifth root race (out of seven) the "Aryan" Race. She thought that the Aryans originally came from Atlantis,[1] and non-Aryan peoples were spiritually and intellectually inferior to Aryans, and would eventually die out. [2] She believed that Semitic peoples were an offshoot of Aryans who have become "degenerate in spirituality and perfected in materiality."[3] Guido von List (and his followers such as Lanz von Liebenfels) later took up some of Blavatsky's ideas, mixing her ideology with nationalistic and fascist ideas; this system of thought became known as Ariosophy. Ariosophy, like Theosophy, had relied on intellectual expositions of racial evolution. The Thule Society preached Aryan supremacy and acted to achieve it. It provides the final link between occult racial theories and the racial ideology of Hitler and the emerging Nazi party."[4]
 
***Moderator Note***

This thread has been closed to further posts due to how quickly the discussion degenerated and moved into violation of our Code of Conduct. Everyone involved should review the Code of Conduct, particularly items #1 and #2. The offending posts have also been removed.

I had hoped to use private messages to catch this but things got quickly out of hand, leaving me no alternative.

If the other moderators suggest the topic can be reopened for discussion at a further date after all the participants have cooled down a bit, this thread may be available for posting again.


Ben Gruagach
moderator in "Alternative" section of Comparative-Religion.com
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top