Misconceptions and quries about Islam

Mohsin

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There is a very good organizations by the name of Islamic Research Foundation(IRF) who is aslo involved in comparative religion. The Islamic Research Foundation (IRF), Mumbai, India, is a registered non-profit public charitable trust. It was established in February 1991. It promotes Islamic Da’wah - the proper presentation, understanding and appreciation of Islam, as well as removing misconceptions about Islam - amongst less aware Muslims and non-Muslims. IRF uses modern technology for its activities, whereever feasible. Its presentation of Islam reach millions of people worldwide through international satellite T.V. channels, cable T.V. networks, internet and the print media. IRF's activities and facilities provide the much needed understanding about the truth and excellence of Islamic teachings - based on the glorious Qur'an and authentic Hadith, as well as adhering to reasons, logic and scientific facts.

I would like you people to visit their website http://www.irf.net/irf/main.htm .

View the question and answer section where many frequently asked questions are answered. http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm .

Read their composed lectures which deal with many big issues like
1: Concept of God in major religions,
2: Quran and modren science - conflic or conciliation,
3: Women's rights in Islam - modernising or outdated,
4: Is Quran God's word?
5: Islam and terrorism.
Download them from http://www.irf.net/irf/download/index.htm .


After reading all these, most, if not all, the misconceptions about Islam would be, by the will of God, clarified.
 
Thanks for that - I think I'm going to open up on a couple of pointers soon for further discussion.
 
Mohsin, Thank you for the sources. I have been wanting to look into Islam and this seems like a very good starting point. It's been hard for me to know what to believe about Islam by looking on the internet. When I go to a Christian site I know how to place that group in the context of Christianity, but without any background in Islam, I can't place an Islamic group in any context. There exists such a diversity in the Islamic community, just as in Christianity, that it is hard for me to get to the core beliefs. I should just read the Qur'an let it speak to me and not worry about how others have intrepeted it. That is my approach to the Bible. Do you have any recommendations to a specific version or translation?
 
Thank you for your concern Shih Yo Chi. The Quran in Arabic is flawless and it is the language in which it was revealed. Translations are a work of man. Though there are many people who have translated the Quran, there are bound to be mistranslations. The site and the lectures have also mentioned this. I cannot recomend you any specific auther for translations, but the Quranic coppies are by reliable sources and you can choose any. But do keep in mind that the translation is a work of man, it may contain errors. That is why I recommend that Arabic text should also be present if physical copy is being obtained.
 
Mohsin said:
The Quran in Arabic is flawless
The line 'In the name of Allah, the compassionate, the merciful' is left out of surah 9, AL-TAWBA. Is this not a flaw?

I'm going to assume that you say that God left it out for a reason and that we simply don't know. But then how can you say that there are any mistakes. Any time anyone finds a mistake, you just claim it is intentional.

Not that it makes any difference whether it's in or it's out. Just interested that you claim the Quran is flawless.
 
samabudhi said:
Mohsin said:
The Quran in Arabic is flawless
The line 'In the name of Allah, the compassionate, the merciful' is left out of surah 9, AL-TAWBA. Is this not a flaw?

I'm going to assume that you say that God left it out for a reason and that we simply don't know. But then how can you say that there are any mistakes. Any time anyone finds a mistake, you just claim it is intentional.

Not that it makes any difference whether it's in or it's out. Just interested that you claim the Quran is flawless.

I appreatiate your concern about the verse. Really, because of your question I had to consult a scholor for this answer and yes there is a reason for this. The surah before surah AL-TAWBA is surah AL-ANFAL. The message in both the surahs is the same, mainly about fighting against those pagans of Makkah who broke a peace treaty onesidedly and stopped the Muslims from worshiping and performing their pilgramige. So, if a person is reciting from the previous surah, he need not to say 'In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful' when entering into this surah. However, if the reader stops in the middle and resumes later, he must say 'In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful'.

I hope that you are satisfied now with our(Muslims) claim that 'The Qur'an in Arabic is flawless'.
 
Mohsin said:
I appreatiate your concern about the verse. Really, because of your question I had to consult a scholor for this answer and yes there is a reason for this. The surah before surah AL-TAWBA is surah AL-ANFAL. The message in both the surahs is the same, mainly about fighting against those pagans of Makkah who broke a peace treaty onesidedly and stopped the Muslims from worshiping and performing their pilgramige. So, if a person is reciting from the previous surah, he need not to say 'In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful' when entering into this surah. However, if the reader stops in the middle and resumes later, he must say 'In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful'.

From what I've heard, the surahs are pretty much arbitrary anyway, and that the Qu'ran was actually divided only into 31(?) Juz?

I hope that you are satisfied now with our(Muslims) claim that 'The Qur'an in Arabic is flawless'.
Er, not quite. Why are surah AL-TAWBA and surah AL-ANFAL not one then, if the one simply continues from the other?
 
Allah(SWT) knows best. May be because Allah(SWT) wants to keep the Qur'an in the great balance that it is actully in. Also, I reffered to another scholor and he gave me another answer. He said that the verse 'In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful' is also present in the Qur'an in:
[27.30] Surely it is from Sulaiman, and surely it is 'in the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful';
The scholor said that this verse has been replaced from the begining of surah AL-TAWBA by Allah(SWT). Now, according to me, both the conditions can be true. There can and is a similar kind of message, i.e one begins from the other, and that because Allah(SWT) had actully replaced the verse to keep a balance in the Qur'an as He wishes. Again, this is just me as the true knowledge is with Allah(SWT) alone.
 
Really, I don't see why you bother.
As soon as there's something you can't explain...'It is Allah's will.'
At least refrain from advertising that the Qu'ran is flawless if you're not going to be able to back up your case.
 
I think there's a general similar argument from other quarters - in case anyone is familiar with the expression "God works in mysterious ways".
 
I said:
I think there's a general similar argument from other quarters - in case anyone is familiar with the expression "God works in mysterious ways".
True. The knowledge human being have is very little and only what God has chosen to give us and only what we have learned.
Now, as for Samabudhi, concider this. I am claiming that the reason that I have given is the true reason. Then can you prove anything againts it. Can you pass any argument to deny it. Not believing is your problem, but the reason is given.
 
You state that the Qu'ran is flawless.
Where people criticise it, you give good reasons to allay their concerns.
But where you can't, you simply claim that you don't know, that it is God's will and knowledge, and that it is nevertheless flawless!?
So what, may I ask, would constitute a flaw?
 
samabudhi said:
You state that the Qu'ran is flawless.
Where people criticise it, you give good reasons to allay their concerns.
But where you can't, you simply claim that you don't know, that it is God's will and knowledge, and that it is nevertheless flawless!?
So what, may I ask, would constitute a flaw?

A flaw would be something that is contradicting. For example, one commandment calling something wrong and other calling it right without any reason. Stating something which is against the established facts. The critics of the Qur'an came up with many reason pointing a contradiction, but they all turned out to be 100% illogical, due to misquotation and mistranslation.
When the Qur'an was revealed, the pagan Arabs were so very backward in development fields. They were spending too mush time in literature and poetry and called every non-Arab or one unable to speak Arabic as someone who cannot speak at all. When the Qur'an was revealed and they heard the verses, they could not even believe in the depth and accuracy of the literatue that the Qur'an posses. They could not face the Qur'anic challenge, to produce somthing like it, even though they were masters of their language and agreed that it is a devine revelation.
 
I've included a quote from my latest interesting site. You can find many more flaws in the Qu'ran and helpful information on the subject at :
http://www.secularislam.org/guide/mirza.htm


How many days did it take to create the Heavens and the Earth?

· Quran-7:54: Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran-10:3: Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran- 11:7: He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

The above verses clearly state that Allah ( God) created the heavens and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below state

· Quran-41:9 : Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

· Quran- 41:10: He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

· Quran-41:12: So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

Now do the math: 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

You can see similar mistakes in the verses: Quran-4:11, 4:12, and 4: 176 in inheritance law. In these verses one can see the total property after adding all distributed parts adds up more than the available property, i.e., the totals become more than 1 which are: 1.125 and 1.25. How come? A gross mathematical error, is it not?

It took me 15 minutes to find these.
What are you defending? :(
 
Regards.
Really amazed that you spent some time just to find an error, but as I said earlier is some posts, there are several diehard critics of the Qur'an who had spent their entire lives finding errors and proving the Qur'an wrong. This point was also pointed out several times and was clerified by the scholors. I will paste the answer as it was delivered publically.

(Q) Assalamu Alaikum - My name is Ashfaq, and I am a student. My question is, Qur’an in several places has mentioned that… ‘the Heavens and the Earth were created in six days’. But in Surah Fussilat, it says… ‘the Heaven and the Earth was created in eight days’ - Isn’t this a contradiction? In the same Verse also says… ‘that the Earth was created in six days, and then later, on the Heaven in two days’. This is against the Big Bang Theory… ‘that the Heavens and Earth were created simultaneously’.
(Dr. Zakir). Brother has posed a very important question. The Qur'an says… ‘the Heaven and the Earth were created in six days’ and in Surat Fussilat, it says… ‘eight days’. Isn’t there a contradiction - and also contradiction with the Big Bang Theory. I do agree with you brother the Qur’an says in several places that… ‘the Heavens and the Earth were created in six days, in several places’. In Surah Araf, Ch. 7, V. No. 54; in Sura Yunus, Ch. 10, V. No. 3; in Surah Hud, Ch. 11, V. No.7; in Surah Furqan Ch. 25, V. No.59; Surah Sajdah, Ch. 32, V. No. 4; in Surah Hadid, Ch. 57, V. No. 4. In several places, the Qur’an says… ‘the Heavens and the Earth were created in six days’. It is not the earthly days - It is ‘Ayyaam’. ‘Very long periods’ - which Scientists have got no objection. And I also agree with you, that in the Qur’an does speak about… ‘the creation of the Heavens and the Earth’… in Surah Fussilat. The verse you are refering to brother is Verses 9 to12, which says that… ‘Do you not believe in the One who has created the Earth in two days… and do you join equals with Him - Do you join partners with Him, who is the Lord of the worlds’? Verse No. 10 says… ‘He has set on the Earth, mountains standing firm and given due nourishment on the Earth, in four days’. Verse No. 11 says…. ‘Moreover in His design, He comprehended the sky when it was smoke and He said to it and the Earth… ‘come ye together willingly or unwillingly’, and they said ‘we come together in willing obedience’. This, He did in two days. For if you read it just without thinking two plus four plus two is eight days. Qur’an gives the answer in starting of the Verse - that is… says that… ‘all those who will take out this fault, they are equal to those people who will join partners to God’. Means, Allah (SWT) knew that there will be people who will take out fault in the Qur’an, in this verse - they will be the Mushrikhs. And today this verse is commonly used by the Christian missionaries and many others against the Mulsims. If you go around… I have been travelling in the world - this question was posed to me even there - the Christian missionaries they pose this question. Qur’an says… it predicts… that people will ask about this question, and these people will be those who associate partners with God. Let us analyse the first two Verses - that is, Surah Fussilat, Ch. 41, Verse No. 9 to 10 says… that… ‘the Earth was created in two days, and then mountains were set on it, and nourishment was given in due proportion in four days’. So it says two days the Earth was formed mountains were set on it afterwards in four days total comes to six days. Then Verse No. 11, starts with the Arabic word ‘Summa’. Now the Arabic word ‘Summa’, can be translated in three different ways. One is ‘Then’, one is ‘Moreover’, and the other is ‘Simultaneously’. I do know that many translations have translated the Arabic word ‘Summa’, as ‘then’. If you translate ‘Summa’ as ‘then’ - then there is a contradiction. It says… ‘then’ the Heavens were made in two days. That means two plus four, plus two is equal to eight days. But the exact translation should be ‘Summa’ - should be translated as ‘Moreover’ or ‘Simultaneously’. And Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Alhamdullillah in this place has translated ‘Summa’ correctly - as ‘Moreover’. If you translate ‘Summa’, as ‘Moreover’ or ‘Simultaneously’ - it will mean that when the Earth and the Mountains were created in six days, ‘Simultaneously’ the Heavens were created in two days. For example suppose a builder he gives in his brochure… ‘that I have constructed a ten story building along with it’s surrounding and compound wall, in six months. When a person who wants to buy a flat in that building - he goes to the builder and he asks for more details. So the builder says… ‘It took me two months to make the basement of the building ,and another four months to make the ten story. And while I was building the basement and the story, I simultaneously built the compound wall and the surrounding in two months’. It is possible - so then he is not contradicting - Total comes to yet six months. So similarly when Surah Fussilat, Ch. 41, Verse No. 9 to 12, it says that… ‘While the Earth was created along with the mountain in six days simultaneously the Heaven was created in two days’ - There is no contradiction. And similarly if you take ‘then’ - it contradicts with Science, because Earth was created first , ‘then’ were created the Mountains - It is contradicting. Similarly Qur’an speaks in Surah Baqarah, Ch. 2, Verse 29, that… ‘Allah made the Earth , ‘Summa’ the Heaven’. But unfortunately , here Abdullah Yusuf Ali has translated ‘Summa’ wrongly, as ‘then’. In Verse 29, of Surah Baqarah, Ch. 2, he translates ‘Summa’, as ‘then’. Allah created the Earth, and then the Heaven - Then there is a contradiction. Even here ‘Summa’ should be translated as ‘Moreover’ or ‘Simultaneously’. If it is translated ‘Simultaneously’ - then it is not a contradiction, because the Big Bang Theory tells us that, the Earth and Heaven were created simultaneously. No wonder in the Qur’an… the Qur’an says in many places… ‘We created the heavens and the earth’, in the other places it says… ‘We created the earth and the heavens’. Giving evidence to the verse of the Qur’an of Surah Anbiya, Ch. 21, Verse No. 30, which says… (Arabic) … ‘that do not the unbelievers see that the Heavens and the Earth were joined together and We clove them asunder.​
I surely hope that you are satisfied. As I said, the errors are due to mistranslations and misquotations. The Qur'an in Arabic is flawless.
P.S. Don't you have anything else to do except critising Islam. Sorry if offended. ;)
 
samabudhi said:
· Quran-41:9 : Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

· Quran- 41:10: He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

...

Now do the math: 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.
To myself it looks like quite a bit of overlap - that Quran 41:10 as including "earth" in it as well as nourishment.

And as the argument is made via inference rather than presentation of directly conflicting quotes, it does rather remind of the various flawed infererential thinking I see from fundamentalist Atheism when criticising the Bible.
 
Mohsin said:
Really amazed that you spent some time just to find an error, but as I said earlier is some posts, there are several diehard critics of the Qur'an who had spent their entire lives finding errors and proving the Qur'an wrong.
They spent their lives in ignorance until they realised it was a sham. The best critics of a religion are always the people from the inside. So you can ask me all the sticky bits about Buddhism you want. :D

(Q) Assalamu Alaikum - My name is Ashfaq, and I am a student. My question is, Qur’an in several places has mentioned that… ‘the Heavens and the Earth were created in six days’. But in Surah Fussilat, it says… ‘the Heaven and the Earth was created in eight days’ - Isn’t this a contradiction? In the same Verse also says… ‘that the Earth was created in six days, and then later, on the Heaven in two days’. This is against the Big Bang Theory… ‘that the Heavens and Earth were created simultaneously’.

(Dr. Zakir). Brother has posed a very important question. The Qur'an says… ‘the Heaven and the Earth were created in six days’ and in Surat Fussilat, it says… ‘eight days’. Isn’t there a contradiction - and also contradiction with the Big Bang Theory. I do agree with you brother the Qur’an says in several places that… ‘the Heavens and the Earth were created in six days, in several places’. In Surah Araf, Ch. 7, V. No. 54; in Sura Yunus, Ch. 10, V. No. 3; in Surah Hud, Ch. 11, V. No.7; in Surah Furqan Ch. 25, V. No.59; Surah Sajdah, Ch. 32, V. No. 4; in Surah Hadid, Ch. 57, V. No. 4. In several places, the Qur’an says… ‘the Heavens and the Earth were created in six days’. It is not the earthly days - It is ‘Ayyaam’. ‘Very long periods’ - which Scientists have got no objection.

Let us analyse the first two Verses - that is, Surah Fussilat, Ch. 41, Verse No. 9 to 10 says… that… ‘the Earth was created in two days, and then mountains were set on it, and nourishment was given in due proportion in four days’. So it says two days the Earth was formed mountains were set on it afterwards in four days total comes to six days. Then Verse No. 11, starts with the Arabic word ‘Summa’. Now the Arabic word ‘Summa’, can be translated in three different ways. One is ‘Then’, one is ‘Moreover’, and the other is ‘Simultaneously’. I do know that many translations have translated the Arabic word ‘Summa’, as ‘then’. If you translate ‘Summa’ as ‘then’ - then there is a contradiction. It says… ‘then’ the Heavens were made in two days. That means two plus four, plus two is equal to eight days. But the exact translation should be ‘Summa’ - should be translated as ‘Moreover’ or ‘Simultaneously’. And Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Alhamdullillah in this place has translated ‘Summa’ correctly - as ‘Moreover’. If you translate ‘Summa’, as ‘Moreover’ or ‘Simultaneously’ - it will mean that when the Earth and the Mountains were created in six days, ‘Simultaneously’ the Heavens were created in two days.

Does the Koran uses the same word for 'day' in surah Fussilat(41) verses 9-12 as it does in Al-A'raf (7) verse 54?
If so, then it doesn't matter how long an 'Ayyaam’ is. It is still 6 'very long periods' versus 8 'very long periods.'
And why argue this is you're latter going to say that the heavens were made simultaneously with the earth and therefore it is not 2then4then2 but 2moreover2then4.

This line says they were created one after the other:
[2][29] It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; then He turned to the heaven and made them into seven firmaments. And of all things He hath perfect knowledge.
- from http://quran.al-islam.com/

Can the then in this also be translated as 'simultaneously?'
It doesn't matter if it can since it says he 'turned to the heaven' and made them into seven firmaments.

And I also agree with you, that in the Qur’an does speak about… ‘the creation of the Heavens and the Earth’… in Surah Fussilat. The verse you are refering to brother is Verses 9 to12, which says that… ‘Do you not believe in the One who has created the Earth in two days… and do you join equals with Him - Do you join partners with Him, who is the Lord of the worlds’? Verse No. 10 says… ‘He has set on the Earth, mountains standing firm and given due nourishment on the Earth, in four days’. Verse No. 11 says…. ‘Moreover in His design, He comprehended the sky when it was smoke and He said to it and the Earth… ‘come ye together willingly or unwillingly’, and they said ‘we come together in willing obedience’. This, He did in two days. For if you read it just without thinking two plus four plus two is eight days. Qur’an gives the answer in starting of the Verse - that is… says that… ‘all those who will take out this fault, they are equal to those people who will join partners to God’. Means, Allah (SWT) knew that there will be people who will take out fault in the Qur’an, in this verse - they will be the Mushrikhs. And today this verse is commonly used by the Christian missionaries and many others against the Mulsims. If you go around… I have been travelling in the world - this question was posed to me even there - the Christian missionaries they pose this question. Qur’an says… it predicts… that people will ask about this question, and these people will be those who associate partners with God.

I read the beginning of surah Fussilat as this:
[1] Ha-Mim.

[2] A revelation from (Allah), Most Gracious, Most Merciful;

[3] A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail; a Qur-an in Arabic, for people who understand;

[4] Giving Good News and Admonition: yet most of them turn away, and so they hear not.

[5] They say: "Our hearts are under veils, (concealed) from that to which thou dost invite us, and in our ears is a deafness, and between us and thee is a screen: so do thou (what thou wilt); for us, we shall do (what we will!)"

He says: Qur’an gives the answer in starting of the Verse - that is… says that… ‘all those who will take out this fault, they are equal to those people who will join partners to God’.
I don't read that anyway? :confused:

P.S. Don't you have anything else to do except critising Islam.
On my day off?! You've got to be kidding. There's nothing more satisfying than nitpicking at religious dogma when I could be at the beach or having a nap.
 
Regards.

samabudhi said:
They spent their lives in ignorance until they realised it was a sham. The best critics of a religion are always the people from the inside. So you can ask me all the sticky bits about Buddhism you want. :D
.
I agree. There are two examples that I can give you of which are great critics of Islam, Salman Rashdi(India) and Taslima Nasreen(Bangladesh). They are both taking refuge in U.K. , I think. Also note that in the span of 150 years, more then 60,000 books have been written only against Islam.

samabudhi said:
This line says they were created one after the other:
Quote:
[2][29] It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; then He turned to the heaven and made them into seven firmaments. And of all things He hath perfect knowledge.

Can the then in this also be translated as 'simultaneously?'
It doesn't matter if it can since it says he 'turned to the heaven' and made them into seven firmaments.
Yes it can. This verse was also touched by the scholor. Turned to heavens can also be attending to the heavens. I mean, if you analyze according to the example of the builder constructing a building, during the actual building, he attended to the surroundings and constructed them as well.
Also, the original contradiction has been removed, i.e. six days(periods of time) or the eight days(periods of time).

samabudhi said:
He says: Qur’an gives the answer in starting of the Verse - that is… says that… ‘all those who will take out this fault, they are equal to those people who will join partners to God’.
I don't read that anyway? :confused:
I will not lie, I agree that Dr. Zakir Naik misquoted, but it is his fault and not a mistake in the Qur'an.

samabudhi said:
On my day off?! You've got to be kidding. There's nothing more satisfying than nitpicking at religious dogma when I could be at the beach or having a nap.
I just could not help resist noticing that when you say nitpicking at religious dogma, you are actually mainly criticising Islam only. Can you tell me why?

Lastly, there is a verse in the Qur'an in chapter no.2, verse no.6 and 7 which says:
________________

Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts(centre) and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.
________________

It fits completely on you. No matter what I do, you will continue to disbelieve.
 
Ah, but then you imply that Allah creates men to be deaf to His word, simply so that He can torture them for fun. There is a similar argument from certain Christian circles, and it tends not to convince there either. After all, there are probably a few thousand different Christian and Islamic denominations all promising hell-fire to those outside of themselves in their own special way.
 
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