The Trinity, from the JW view.

[mee]

That Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son and, hence, that this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus’ own statements.

He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, "I live because of the Father."
According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.


If the estimates of modern-day scientists as to the age of the physical universe are anywhere near correct, Jesus’ existence as a spirit creature began thousands of millions of years prior to the creation of the first human. (Compare Mic 5:2.)
This firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things. (Joh 1:3; Col 1:16, 17)

This would include the millions of other spirit sons of Jehovah God’s heavenly family (Da 7:9, 10; Re 5:11), as well as the physical universe and the creatures originally produced within it.


Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness." (Ge 1:26)

All these other created things were not only created "through him" but also "for him," as God’s Firstborn and the "heir of all things."—Col 1:16; Heb 1:2.

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Not a co-Creator. The Son’s share in the creative works, however, did not make him a co-Creator with his Father.

The power for creation came from God through his holy spirit, or active force. (Ge 1:2; Ps 33:6)

And since Jehovah is the Source of all life, all animate creation, visible and invisible, owes its life to him. (Ps 36:9)

Rather than a co-Creator, then, the Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.—Mt 19:4-6;

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[mee]

Hi Mee —



God begat His Son of Himself, through no other agency.

Thomas

yes ,Jesus was the only one created by Jehovah alone , everything else was created through Jesus.

Jesus was certainly unique ,he was the only one created by Jehovah alone .

ONLY-BEGOTTEN​

The Greek word mo·no·ge·nes´ is defined by lexicographers as "single of its kind, only," or "the only member of a kin or kind." (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144)

The term is used in describing the relation of both sons and daughters to their parents.

The Scriptures speak of "the only-begotten son" of a widow who lived in the city of Nain, of Jairus’ "only-begotten daughter," and of a man’s "only-begotten" son whom Jesus cured of a demon. (Lu 7:11, 12; 8:41, 42; 9:38)

The Greek Septuagint uses mo·no·ge·nes´ when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: "Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter."—Jg 11:34.


The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9)

This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus.

As the Lo´gos, or Word, "this one was in the beginning with God," even "before the world was." (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24)

At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the "only-begotten Son" whom his Father sent "into the world."—1Jo 4:9.


He is described as having "a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father," the one residing "in the bosom position with the Father." (Joh 1:14, 18)

It is hard to think of a closer, more confidential, or more loving and tender relationship between a father and his son than this.
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[Thomas]

yes, Jesus was the only one created by Jehovah alone, everything else was created through Jesus.

But nowhere does it say Jesus was created ... and as orthodoxy for 2,000 said Jesus was not created, the idea that He is a created being is your invention.

Jesus was certainly unique, he was the only one created by Jehovah alone.

Again, show me where it says 'created' ... as far as I can see, this is your interpretation, a JW tradition.

ONLY-BEGOTTEN​

The Greek word mo·no·ge·nes´ is defined by lexicographers as "single of its kind, only," or "the only member of a kin or kind." (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144)

The term is used in describing the relation of both sons and daughters to their parents.

The Scriptures speak of "the only-begotten son" of a widow who lived in the city of Nain, of Jairus’ "only-begotten daughter," and of a man’s "only-begotten" son whom Jesus cured of a demon. (Lu 7:11, 12; 8:41, 42; 9:38)

The Greek Septuagint uses mo·no·ge·nes´ when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: "Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter."—Jg 11:34. ​

OK. But you're talking about creatures produced via natural means of procreation ... The Son of the Father was not by means of procreation, so what applies in one instance does not apply in this instance.

The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9)

Quite. But he's not suggesting a female deity somewhere who is the mother, is he ... so he's using the term in a specific context.

This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus.

So ...

As the Lo´gos, or Word, "this one was in the beginning with God," even "before the world was." (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24)

... so ...

At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the "only-begotten Son" whom his Father sent "into the world."—1Jo 4:9.

... so ...

He is described as having "a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father," the one residing "in the bosom position with the Father." (Joh 1:14, 18)

... so ...

It is hard to think of a closer, more confidential, or more loving and tender relationship between a father and his son than this.

... Exactly! And as God is perfect, the closeness is so close that the two are one! The Son is everything the Father is, and everything the Father has the Son has ... why would a loving parent hold anything back?

Jesus is God, because the Father gave the Son Himself.

If Jesus is created, He is adopted ... He certainly is not of the same nature as God, therefore not really the Son of God, for a nature reproduces itself.

In your words, Jesus was created by God, and adopted by Him ...

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Anyway you argue it, Mee, if Jesus is created, then He is not the perfect Son because He is not the Father — and when Jesus said "he who has seen me has seen the Father" he was not telling the truth, because you say He is different from the Father ...

Nor is the Father perfect because He did not create a Son as perfectly as He can ... for if He could, He would have given the Son every gift He possesses, the only gift He possesses ... all that He is.

Do you think the Father would ask the Son to do something that He Himself would not do? No. So if the Father asks the Son to give up His life, we can be sure that the Father had already given His life to His only-begotten Son ... and herein enters the Holy Spirit.

Thomas​

 

[mee]

Prehuman Existence. The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth.

He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58)

John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: "In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo´gos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god ["was divine," AT; Mo; or "of divine being," Böhmer; Stage (both German)].

This one was in the beginning with God." Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from "the beginning" must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works.

This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," "the beginning of the creation by God." (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.

 

[Thomas]

Mee — Can you give me a definition of Jesus as you see Him?

Put another way ... before His 'prehuman' existance, who existed, in what way did He exist, and how?

In the Catholic Faith, Jesus Christ is "true God, and true man" ... and much theological thinking lies behind that definition.

What is the JW definition?

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As you know, we think you're misinterpreted 'firstborn of all creation' which means, as the text itself says, that all creation was in Him first ... not that He was created before anything else.

Rather then, we identify the Word as God, as St John does in his gospel:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made."

Thomas

Thomas

 

[17th Angel]

Christ was the first creation made by god, and with god Christ helped to create mankind, the angels, the universe, our world, then all that stuff in the middle, and then god sent the begotten son Jesus Christ to be sacrafice for mans sin... Then he returned to be with his father, god... That is a rough Idea for ya. I know I am not mee, but sue me.

 

[mee]

Mee — Can you give me a definition of Jesus as you see Him?


What is the JW definition?



Thomas

Thomas

JW definition is the same as what the bible teaches


Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God .
he was the first-born of creation , but then everything else that was created was through this first-born son . he was the only one that was created by Jehovah alone.


its good to stick to what the bible really teaches