for snoopy... following on... from fran

It appears, of course, that what Francis is speaking of is not enlightenment per se, but acquiring "special powers, " which many Eastern teachers, including the Buddha, had indicated are not at all the object of the path. See for instance:

Karunakara Guru: Santhigiri Ashram's Web Site

Have a good one, earl
 
It appears, of course, that what Francis is speaking of is not enlightenment per se, but acquiring "special powers, " which many Eastern teachers, including the Buddha, had indicated are not at all the object of the path. See for instance:

Karunakara Guru: Santhigiri Ashram's Web Site

Have a good one, earl
Christian teachers, as well. The special powers are the "childish things" See 1 Corinthians 12-13
excerpt: 1 Cor 13
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.​
 

Errr... the Eightfold Path is not concerned with becoming enlightened. It's concerned with achieving a cessation of dukkha by extinguishing desire in this world. See Noble Truth #4 above.

Ain't enlightenment/nibbana/awakening a great word for kicking around. :)

You've certainly got my attention here, n-n...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"3. The Noble Truth of the end of Dukkha, which is Nirvana or Nibbana. Beyond grasping and control and conditional existence is Nirvana. "The mind like fire unbound." The realisation of Nirvana is supreme Bodhi or Awakening. It is waking up to the true nature of reality. It is waking up to our true nature. Buddha Nature. The Pali Canon of Theravada, the foundational Buddhist teachings, says little about Nirvana, using terms like the Unconditioned the Deathless, and the Unborn. Mahayana teachings speak more about the qualities of Nirvana and use terms like, True Nature, Original Mind, Infinite light and Infinite life. Beyond space and time. Nirvana defies definition.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nirvana literally means "unbound' as in "Mind like fire unbound". This beautiful image is of a flame burning by itself. Just the flame, not something burning and giving off a flame. Picture a flame burning on a wick or stick, it seems to hover around or just above the thing burning. The flame seems to be independent of the thing burning but it clings to the stick and is bound to it. This sense of the flame being unbound has often been misunderstood to mean the flame is extinguished or blown out. This is completely opposite to the meaning of the symbol. The flame "burns" and gives light but is no longer bound to any combustible material. The flame is not blown out - the clinging and the clung to is extinguished. The flame of our true nature, which is awakening, burns independently. Ultimately Nirvana is beyond conception and intellectual understanding. Full understanding only comes through direct experience of this "state' which is beyond the limitations and definitions of space and time.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. The Noble Truth of the Path that leads to Awakening. The path is a paradox. It is a conditioned thing that is said to help you to the unconditioned. Awakening is not "made" by anything: it is not a product of anything including the Buddha's teachings. Awakening, your true nature is already always present. We are just not awake to this reality. Clinging to limitation, and attempts to control the ceaseless flow of phenomena and process obscures our true nature."[/FONT]


A Basic Buddhism Guide: The Eight-Fold Path



s.
 
Don't know what to tell you, S.... Nobody seems to know what Nirvana is.

I think this seems to be where there is quite a distinction between the schools, most strikingly between the Theravada and All The Rest. :rolleyes:

Also how to achieve it. And is it gradual or sudden? Or is there anything at all to achieve...

s.
 
.... how to achieve (nirvana). And is it gradual or sudden? Or is there anything at all to achieve...
Maybe Buddha had a sense of humour and came up with a fancy wild goose chase? Isn't that what Ms. King has been telling us?
 
**grabs a fish out of the nearby stream, bows to fish, thinks about slapping Snoopy acrossed face with fish, bows to fish, and returns it to the stream, and instead scoops up some of the water from the stream to throw at Snoopy**

*splash*

**bows to Snoopy**

Hadn't thought of that appellation before. :rolleyes:

I thought it was a reference to someone, well, you know, famous. Like Billie Jean...

See what I get for asking an honest question?

Wet.

s.
 
Hadn't thought of that appellation before. :rolleyes:

I thought it was a reference to someone, well, you know, famous. Like Billie Jean...

See what I get for asking an honest question?

Wet.

s.
I thought your avatar was looking a little dried out in the heat. :eek:
 
"I never knew what compassion meant until I heard..."

....why can't you all be impressed by magic powers, lightening shooting from ur fingertips? The power to communicate with the mind, the power to know all things? Why instead is this... not meaning to offend...this miserable, wet, gushy hippy stuff what ppl want?
It would be a reductionism to say that religion is the rhetoric of hope. However, it's clear that major world religions have something to say on the subject. In fact, I think it would be fair to say that hope is the single most important derivative of faith.

Christianity in particular would seem to emphasize hope, especially in relational terms - as in hope for forgiveness, salvation, and a heavenly afterlife granted by a merciful Father who takes an ongoing interest in His Creation. The Christian view can be seen as a form of G-d dependence that is effectuated through the New Covenant, as ushered in by Jesus Christ.
Expectation of the Kingdom and Divine Justice is certainly a significant form of hope for Christians. People subordinate their entire lives to the plan of action, namely, to get into Heaven.

Assurance of being an empowered person who is confident about being able to master present challenges based on a strong, stable relationship is also a significant form of hope for Christians, as is moral certainty. Example: "Receive Christ's energy and believe that you can do all things through the one who gives you strength. Receive his Lordship, knowing that you belong to him and that He looks out for you. Receive his love and feel confident that nothing can separate you from it."
Amazon.com: Come Thirsty: No Heart Too Dry for His Touch (Lucado, Max): Max Lucado: Books

As for Buddhism....For all its focus on mental afflictions and unwholesome emotions, I see Buddhism as being saturated with hope. It can be seen as a proactive system for dealing with life's challenges that would otherwise lead to a steady erosion of hope.

The Buddhist literature includes fairly detailed discussions of despair. Obviously, defining the problem is the first step toward developing solution. And being a practical approach to developing emotional intelligence, Buddhism has very clear ideas about a solution that follow from fairly clear understandings of the problem.

Buddhism would appear to be holding itself as a universal resource of hope - a hope that is borne of the conviction that compassion and service will make good things happen and move humanity toward a certain predestined goal ... no matter how long it takes. Indeed, why would the Bodhisattva commit to a vow to overcome all afflictions unless it was possible?

The Bodhisattva's aspiration, dedication, patience, courage, and determination to overcome adversities and develop a full-fledged Bodhi Mind -- these are all based on hope, which in turn is based on faith in the Buddha Dharma and the conviction that one can indeed live up to one's Bodhisattva vows and achieve excellence in accordance with that conviction. This hope involves a sincere expectation of following in the Buddha's footsteps, along with a pure faith in the path of illumination itself.

From Torei Zenji's Bodhisattva Vow:
At the peak of each thought a lotus flower opens, and on each flower there is revealed a Buddha. Everywhere is the Pure Land in its beauty. We see fully the Tathagata's radiant light right where we are (every moment and everywhere). May we retain this mind and extend it throughout the world so that we and all beings become mature in Buddha's wisdom.
Daily Zen Buddhist Sutras
 
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