Anthropology and Religion: Culture

[path_of_one]

I would say it is probably the crux of who we are, and how we are different from other animals. We evolved to really like BBQs- nothing says a good time the world over than a hunk of meat on a fire, some sort of alcoholic beverage, music, and dancing.

 

[LenoBee]

What a beautiful thread. I have enjoyed the reading from the OP.

 

[Tao_Equus]

Absolutely.



Short answer: not much. There are so few human universals..... For every "universal" there are hundreds if not thousands of variations on it.

Yes there are few. But none the less that few are fundamental to what a human truly is. We are social apes with brains developed to take advantage of environment. We can think in the abstract to facilitate this and a consequence of abstraction is a lot variation. Much of it so far removed from reality as to have no relationship to it any more.

What I find really interesting is the relationships between changes in one part of culture and changes in another....

Nothing but nothing is unchanging. Even ones relationship with oneself is a flux. With family, extended family, community, city, region, country and international alliances the constant jostle of change is ever present. And the change can be massive and rapid. The complicity amongst the German people in the rise of the Third Reich is a good illustration. I too am fascinated by these changes and for a while this interest had me genuinely fearful about the direction in which the US was heading. Having travelled fairly widely I would say unequivocally that people are people, everywhere. They are far more alike than unalike in just being people rather than cultural paradigms. At least on the one to one level. We can always find common ground in our individual interactions.

One universal that was just too much fun was captured in Matt Harding's recent Dancing 2008 video. Basically, as one blog commenter summed it up: "I realize people everywhere like to dance like dorks." Now, THAT is interesting. What is it that allows people seemingly everywhere to recognize fun when they see it, and join in? Why are we dancing, singing, drumming animals? What's the purpose?

Feeling good. Being happy and sustained. Abandoning, for a time, the daily pressures of life. It strengthens community and family bonds and has it roots in us being a social animal. A pack of hungry wolves can show animated happiness at the conclusion of a kill. Give a mammal a big brain capable of abstraction and we have a ceilidh.

This is the whole tragedy of the commons work, altruism, etc.

I have a lot of works in the reading list on this issue, and religion is a big player in that game. I'd recommend Gene Anderson's "Ecologies of the Heart" as a starting point, but there's a whole literature on the Tragedy of the Commons that is excellent and explains the value of religion in thwarting these issues.

I realise that often my posts tend to ignore or even deny in religion that which is of some real value to self and community. Undoubtedly, for better or for worse, religious institutions have played a leading role in the structure and planning of every culture. This is political religion and I am in this case fast to call it a completely different entity to spiritual religion. For me this separation is easy and natural and this is why you may find me so cut and dried on certain pertaining issues. Very few examples of cultural altruism exist if looked at in any detail. The only good example is of the effectiveness of charities to raise money for disaster relief. But the majority of such organisations are secular and non-partisan. And many an atheist works to help them. Altruism on the cultural level is more likely thwarted by the mass religions than aided. If a massive earthquake was to devastate Tehran tomorrow then I doubt you would find many folk in Colorado Springs digging deep. Atheism on the other hand is not encumbered by the prejudices of faith. Religion is, as far as I can see it, always a superfluous addition to any thinking. It is irrelevant except by the power that the masses give it. Removing it from the equation makes the sums easier to quantify and removes obstacles of reason that hinder far more than they aid.

I don't think that's really how it works. There is some evolutionary payoff for this stuff, and that's why it is there. I don't think it's all about bringing in meaning to our lives and world. I mean, superficially, yes. But when you dig down, these things have purpose for group survival, generally speaking.

I would agree that they once did. I cannot see how they can be fairly be said to be aiding us now though.

You may believe this, but the evidence says otherwise. I've listed some stuff on the reading list that goes into the details, but the evidence is that religion has historically been key to engendering cooperation and long-term planning in areas that would otherwise be like herding cats. And these things were necessary for group survival. Religion has evolutionary advantages that have allowed large-scale social cooperation, retention of ecological information, and other important advantages. It persists in part because science is lousy at making people care emotionally about what they should do, and most people make decisions based on emotions and not logic.

I could pick this to bits. But I will make do with again stating here you are talking about politics, not religion. That the powerful love to mix the two does not make them the same thing.

This is why you can have very illogical, socially deleterious outcomes coming out of very atheistic philosophies.

Examples?

Second, religions do not ignore evidence, but rather it is handled differently.

lol. It sure is.

What good is having a logical system of understanding the world around us if its pragmatic ends are no different from the illogical, religious system-- and it is much worse at getting anyone to actually cooperate in beneficial action?

I think people mostly like truth. Being naggingly knowingly deceived, especially by oneself, sits heavy on the psyche.

Unless people "grow up" and evolve to intrinsically desire cooperation, self-sacrifice, and long-term planning... science is no better off than religion is, and in many ways worse, for group survival. I heart science too, but I do recognize that it is science that has generated nuclear weapons and unsustainable agriculture. Technology and scientific knowledge without the underpinnings of emotion that lead to beneficial action is just as horrific as the way religion can be twisted.

Science has given us terrible means of destruction but it is also delivering untold marvels that impact every life in positive ways. Spirituality, as opposed to organised religion, can give a comfort blanket and a grounding that some people need to be content. Religions tend to hijack this in the same way as the politicians harness science to make weapons. Religions may do the occasional beneficial act for the wider groups but overall my belief is that they do more harm than good.


tao

 

[path_of_one]

This is political religion and I am in this case fast to call it a completely different entity to spiritual religion. For me this separation is easy and natural and this is why you may find me so cut and dried on certain pertaining issues.

I think what I'm trying to say is that it is a modern Western notion to separate out aspects of social life. That we think this way does not make it the best or only way to think. I am operating from a point of view that attempts to capture the ways diverse societies throughout time have experienced religion in culture, without imposing a uniquely modern Western way of categorizing the world on it. I don't think the Western atheistic, scientific movement is the best result of cultural evolution. I value the ways other cultures have chosen to handle cultural continuity, using religion. I'm willing to meet them on their own terms.

Very few examples of cultural altruism exist if looked at in any detail.

What you speak of was traditionally unnecessary. Religion existed to uphold in-group altruism so that the group could continue to survive. This is part of the problem- much of human evolution geared us to live with about 20-30 people and we'd know no more than about 100 in our lifetime. The basic limitations in many people for what our psyche has evolved to deal with, and the cultural parameters that used to work under these conditions, are apparent now that we have a global system. But they crop up not only in religion, but also in politics, economics... all sorts of aspects of culture make it apparent that we evolved to be altruistic on a small-scale and that we have progressively more difficulty in being kind and egalitarian the bigger the group becomes. I've seen religious folks and atheists that get over this barrier. I've also seen a lot of folks in both camps that could give a flying fig about other people. Seems to be more a function of human psyche than religion.

Religion is, as far as I can see it, always a superfluous addition to any thinking. It is irrelevant except by the power that the masses give it.

Well, yes, as an atheist you would see it as superfluous. But the evidence shows otherwise. And all of the superstructure (ideas, institutions, etc.) is irrelevant except by the power that the masses give it. We are social animals. Without any power among the people, little is relevant to our lives.

I would agree that they once did. I cannot see how they can be fairly be said to be aiding us now though.

That's interesting. Last I checked, there are a lot of very large religious chaitable organizations that seem to be helping folks out. Within communities, many receive free psychological counseling from clergy that they could not otherwise afford. I've seen church congregations pitch in for those less fortunate among them. Nothing works perfectly, but to be honest I see a lot more barriers to our having a sustainable and egalitarian society in our government and economy than in churches. Not seeing much love coming from the industrial-military complex, though it is quite rational and logical.

I could pick this to bits. But I will make do with again stating here you are talking about politics, not religion. That the powerful love to mix the two does not make them the same thing.

And the Western Euro-centric tendency to pick them apart does not make it work that way in human history or in other contemporary cultures, or even in our own culture. Culture is messy. We can impose organization, but lose sight of the interconnections. Politics has always been integrated with religion. That is my point. There is no "pure spirituality" socially. Religion has always been tied, from the beginning, with getting people to behave in predictable ways that benefited the group. It has always had a messy overlap with governing systems, law/norms/social sanctions, arts, and science. Just because our first world Western cultures like to separate them into categories doesn't make it the best or most accurate of viewing the system.

Examples?

Off the top of my head, Communism. Some of the stupidest and least sustainable uses of the environment came out of atheistic political philosophy.

I think people mostly like truth. Being naggingly knowingly deceived, especially by oneself, sits heavy on the psyche.

Really? I live in a society where most people seem to be quite content to be deceived. Not too many people want the work of figuring out the truth. This is why few people actually read any data and why soundbite politics are really popular. It's why people run out and buy everything they are told to so they can get rich, beautiful, and young too. I think very few people want or like truth. Truth isn't often comfortable or convenient. I think whether or not it costs people, most of them have little or no interest in critical thinking and put little effort into finding truth. It's not high on their list of priorities.

Science has given us terrible means of destruction but it is also delivering untold marvels that impact every life in positive ways.

The religious would say the same. What is a marvel to you may be only "eh" to another. And vice versa. I find my spiritual experiences to be pretty marvelous. I'd definitely trade in my car, microwave oven, TV, and whatnot for the peace, joy, and expansion of consciousness I feel as a result of my spirituality. But to you, this stuff is just "eh."

That's humanity for you- we are all different. We like different things. What is clear is that both science and religion are compelling for some people and not for others. Who is anyone to say everyone should find the same things useful, marvelous, or compelling in their own lives?

Spirituality, as opposed to organised religion, can give a comfort blanket and a grounding that some people need to be content.

I think you miss the point of many folks' spirituality. Spirituality is not always comfortable, and it isn't always grounding. Any read-through of sacred text or the writings of mystics of any religion will show that often, the journey stands one's world on its head, expands one's awareness, and can be quite painful. I doubt that Mother Theresa, who experienced a total silence from God for most of her life, found her daily grind among the poor without any response from God very much a comfort. Indeed, it was sometimes very painful to her. But coming out of it was an amazing life. Who is anyone to tell another the purpose of their spirituality?

Religions may do the occasional beneficial act for the wider groups but overall my belief is that they do more harm than good.

I know this is your belief.

I think my point is that I abstain from telling others what would be best for them. I find that distasteful as it smacks of cultural imperialism. "We, the modern Western atheists and humanists, know what would be better for you all." Eh, I just don't think anyone has that much of a handle on how the world should work. I guess I just revel in the diversity and my own path, and I'm content with that. I don't need to believe I have enough answers for successful global cultural engineering. The vast majority of people now and in history have had some sort of religion and spirituality... to me, that says something important.