Discussion in 'Christianity' started by lunamoth, Sep 12, 2008.
The quote is:
15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
Jesus prays that the Father not take his followers out of the world.
16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.
Not of the world; different from having no part of the world.
17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
Sent out into the world but sanctified, protected by the word of God. Our repsonse to the the good news is to know God's love and take that love out into the world, to aid Christ in the reconcilation of the world.
Christ's followers are not worldly, not world-centered (but Christ-centered), and they in the world rather than of it.
I think the many martyrs for Christ shows the truth of this.
They view the people of the world with love.
Probably the closest answer to that is 'with aloofness.'
"Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." (Matt 22)
I think the basic premise of the documentary hypothesis makes sense. Genesis 1 is a very sophisticaed Creation account written during the priestly era, densely packed with a theology by which God is Creator of all and Israel is His chosen people.
Going by some notes I have on-hand (because I am not a scholar), theological points are 1) Dualism is rejected, God is both transcendant and immanent, Nature acts as God created it to act, and humans respond from their own God-given freedom, Creation is fertile by the gift of God, Humanity is in the image of God, "Man" included woman, and human beings are God's representatives.
Genesis 2 is an older creation story, also tightly packed. It tells the story of creation and also 'explains' sin in the world (the Fall), the tragic alienation between God and man, and between man and man.
Two stories written at different times with different emphasis. There are many redundancies and contradictions in the Bible, not just in Geneisis. The editors were not so much concerned with reconciling and smoothing out the discrepancies (as our Western-trained, post-enlightenment minds might be inclined to do), but with telling and recording the depth and breadth of their understanding of God.
If I were versed in Jewish oral tradition, perhaps I would see this very differently.
Anyway, I do not see a contradiction in God's view of humanity between Gen 1 and Gen 2. I see a story of a relationship that started out perfect, and then mistrust entered in on the part of people.
very true they are focused indeed , and do not let the ways of the world afect them . they are listening to the words of JESUS.
Even though they are living in this world that is in the power of the wicked one (satan the devil) 1 john 5;19
they are doing things christs way.
but there is much opposition to christs way.
"They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."—JOHN 17:16.
just as Jesus did not become a part of the world of his time , so today christians just keep their focus.
and Jesus himself said that he had come to do the will of God.
Our close relationship with Jehovah is one reason why we are no part of the world.
The apostle John wrote: "We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." (1 John 5:19)
John’s words about the world are manifestly true. The wars, crime, cruelty, oppression, dishonesty, and immorality that are so rampant today give evidence of Satan’s, not God’s, influence. (John 12:31; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Ephesians 6:12)
When an individual becomes one of JESUS FOLLOWERS , he will not practice or consent to such wrong practices, and that makes him no part of the world.—Romans 12:2; 13:12-14; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 John 3:10-12.
Christians are followers of Christ Jesus and subjects of God’s Kingdom, which also makes them no part of the world.
When Jesus was on trial before Pontius Pilate, he said: "My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source." (John 18:36)
The Kingdom is the means by which Jehovah’s name will be sanctified, his sovereignty vindicated, and his will done on earth as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:9, 10)
Throughout his ministry, Jesus preached the good news of the Kingdom, and he said that it would be proclaimed by his followers right up to the end of the system of things.
(Matthew 4:23; 24:14)
In 1914 the prophetic words of Revelation 11:15 were fulfilled: "The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever." One day soon, that heavenly Kingdom will be the only ruling power over mankind. (Daniel 2:44)
At a certain point, even secular rulers will be forced to acknowledge its authority.Psalm 2:6-12.
"Anyway, I do not see a contradiction in God's view of humanity between Gen 1 and Gen 2. I see a story of a relationship that started out perfect, and then mistrust entered in on the part of people."
But the mistrust was God's in Genesis 2 and to me this example of God's character shows a supreme lack of spiritual knowledge of Creation and humanity. The Genesis 2 god shows the wisdom of a genius seven year old brat who, when the toys he's made don't work right, blames them, the toys, instead of acting as a responsible adult and accepting the fact he, god, screwed up. I am in full agreement with the Gnostic position that the god of Genesis 2 is so spiritually blind he cannot see his own ethical poverty.
Gnostics believe Yahweh lied:
"And the Lord God commanded man, saying, 'Of every tree in the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you it of it you shall surely die."
"So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died."
930 years. Not bad for someone God told they would die the day they ate the apple. No mention at all of Eve's death. She's that unimportant in the patriarchal war against the Divine Feminine.
This prohibition against knowledge and even serpents is all part and parcel of Abrahamic religious warfare against pagan theologies. Serpents were seen in cultures all over the world as symbols of knowledge and wisdom--see the medical cadueus symbol of intertwining snakes for example. Less known in serpentine religious symbolism is the Egyptian meaning of symbolizing resurrection, the snake shedding its skin to become in effect a brand new snake- "born again"--this symbolic connection between Jesus and snakes gave rise to the gnostic sects glorification of the serpent and anger at Yahweh. When one knows that Jesus teaches resurrection and eternal life then Genesis god's prohibition on human beings seeking knowledge and wisdom are anti-life and what is anti-life is anti-Christ.
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up."
ugh bite your tongue. I wish I could convey what that does to me.. to hear my Sovereign Almighty God who I long to gaze upon even if it killed me because I am so unworthy... who is all that is GOOD of lying. It really hurts me. REALLY.
"Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary."
Yahweh to Ezekiel, 9:6
And of course, Yahweh's genocidal commandments to Joshua, these are "satanic verses" that no one who follows Jesus could ever adore. Faithfulservant, perhaps you should see the movie "Rapture" starring Mimi Rogers and David Duchuvss..whatever. It is a film that gives the gnostic position re following the commandments of a God who, if a man, would be tried and convicted for crimes against humanity. I'm sorry if this offends you to say this but you must remember, the Christianity that thought this way was literally killed by Christians who think your way. Gnostic Christians were the very first victims of Christian persecution--the first ones!
God resurrected the Gnostic gospels and now that they are back in the collection of early Christian texts they won't ever be lost again because Gnosis, and not blind faith, is necessary to reach intellectuals with the Good News! Blind faith was needed when we didn't understand why God sent the Son of Man prophets in, each contributing to the next in line until The Son of Man was sent in, Jesus Christ. But even Jesus was constricted by his times to give the truth in parables and concepts the ancient religious mind could accept, hence the necessary prophesy of the return of the Son of Man to give the Good News! in plain language this time because humanity has caught up in knowledge to understand it. In between, gnostics tried to figure it out because it does take knowledge and not blind faith to do it.
Those Christians doing so immediately saw a problem with the God of Israel..blind faith could not counter their moral revulsion. It's a form of puritanism, actually, and I'm guilty of it, trying to mellow out and see how God may have redeemed old Yahweh by Jesus Christ's sacrifice. Maybe Father Jesus is a whole new snake, I mean, Yahweh.
All Aboard The Good Ship Freedom, Captained by King JESUS
Jesus was born king, he is also our high priest. This is still relevant today, people just make it irrelevant for their convenience. even those that make false predictions about him being invisible present on a specific date make christianity more relevant as it a fulfilled prophecy regarding false prophets.
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