The Fire of God.

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winner08

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The all consuming fire of God. The fire that destroys body and soul. those that will perish in the fire of God. What is this Fire of God. I know what I believe and I have my own ansewrs. I was told by someone that I shouldn't ask questions if I already know the ansewers. They said I was setting yall up. I totally disagree with that statement. I don't know your ansewers and I don't know if mine are absolutely correct. This is why we ask questions to find out what others believe. So if anyone is interested in this thread so be it state you opinion.

Darren
 
Faithfulservant said:
Or cleansing.
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Yes cleansing. A cleansing for what purpose? How about this? The Scriptures say that those who are found in the book of life there is no second death. For those who are not, they are thrown into the Lake of Fire (LOF). In LOF is where we are cleansed with God's Spiritual Fire. Yes Not a literal fire that burns one flesh off the bones but a spiritual fire that purifies, that cleanses, that burns one human nature (sinfulness) our carnality and changes us into the express image of God. For flesh and blood can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. One has to be spirit. One has to be in the image of God in the image of Christ. Of course this will not be a pleasent thing to have to go through. I believe it will be a painful experience.

Darren

PS Nick the pilot. I guess I decided.
 
winner08 said:
The all consuming fire of God. The fire that destroys body and soul. those that will perish in the fire of God. What is this Fire of God. I know what I believe and I have my own ansewrs. I was told by someone that I shouldn't ask questions if I already know the ansewers. They said I was setting yall up. I totally disagree with that statement. I don't know your ansewers and I don't know if mine are absolutely correct. This is why we ask questions to find out what others believe. So if anyone is interested in this thread so be it state you opinion.

Darren
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fire can represent total destruction , and whatever goes in that symbolic lake of fire will be totally destroyed. gone for good.


The Scriptures refer to Jehovah as a consuming fire because of his cleanness, purity, and insistence on exclusive devotion, as well as the fact that he annihilates those who set themselves in opposition to him. (De 4:24; 9:3)


His ardor and rage burn like fire, and his "tongue" and word are like a fire. (Ps 79:5; 89:46; Isa 30:27; Jer 23:29)

Moreover, Jehovah makes his angelic ministers a devouring fire, and by the fire of his zeal "the earth" will be devoured.—Ps 104:1, 4; Zep 3:8;
 
i've often thought that hell is on earth. or lake of fire is on earth. that it is here that we are cleansed or purified. we are tested here and now.
 
LeoSalinas22 said:
i've often thought that hell is on earth. or lake of fire is on earth. that it is here that we are cleansed or purified. we are tested here and now.
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Good point. In a way you might be on to something. It is said (in Scripture) that we are right now being cleansed and purified and tested by the Lord and those who pass will be God's elect (few), Many are called few are chosen. Those who are the few are called the elect. They are the ones who will not go throught the second death. They will be changed from flesh and blood to spirit in a twinkel of an eye. So yea I can see where your comming from. Point of fact (This is my belief only).

Darren
 
Hi Darren —

winner08 said:
I know what I believe and I have my own answers. I was told by someone that I shouldn't ask questions if I already know the answers. They said I was setting yall up. I totally disagree with that statement. I don't know your answers and I don't know if mine are absolutely correct. This is why we ask questions to find out what others believe. So if anyone is interested in this thread so be it state you opinion.
Click to expand...

It's not the asking questions, it's the fact that we've had people post here with the intention of setting someone up, to ambush them and knock 'em down — people not interested in what others think, other than to try and make them look stupid.

Don't think you fall into that category ... but I was uncertain there, for a minute.

As to your question:
The Fire of God is a purifying flame — if by majority you're gold, with a bit of dross, then the dross gets burnt off ... if you're mostly dross, then when the gold's refined, there's nothing of 'you' left ...

Have you ever been caught out? Have you ever had someone say "You know better than that" and you know they're right, and you burn with shame?

Have you ever treated anyone badly? Have you ever thought of something you said, or did, or didn't say, or didn't do, to someone ... and cringed?

Have you ever done anything in your life that you can look on and think, I should have done that better? (Not 'could have' but 'should have')

That's it.

Lord! I'm over 50, there's things I can look back on, things I've said and things I've done that I close my eyes when they come to mind ... I've even been known to make involuntary noises when I think of them ... they lie in ambush, and the old adversary reminds me of 'em, whenever he can...

... and I think, when I face the Man, every blessed one of em, and all the other ones I missed, are gonna come home to roost, and I'm either gonna offer 'em up, or try and justify 'em ... and if I offer 'em up, He's gonna smile and say "Let it go... " and I'm in heaven ... but if I try and justify 'em, He's gonna say, "Let's just take a lookey see, shall we ... ?" And then I'm in hell.

And all the while, the ol' adversary whispers in your ear, "He's never gonna let you off for that ... nor that ... man, you are in some deep ..."
That old adversary, he's the father of lies, but we so ready to listen, ain't we?

You know the silliest thing? You know that image of the kid hanging on to the railings, flapping like a flag in the wind? Well, that's us in heaven ...

Well that's us. We think we're outside, hanging on for dear life, terrified of oblivion ... but we're on the inside ... we just won't believe it.

Thomas
 
winner08 said:
Yes cleansing. A cleansing for what purpose? How about this? The Scriptures say that those who are found in the book of life there is no second death. For those who are not, they are thrown into the Lake of Fire (LOF). In LOF is where we are cleansed with God's Spiritual Fire. Yes Not a literal fire that burns one flesh off the bones but a spiritual fire that purifies, that cleanses, that burns one human nature (sinfulness) our carnality and changes us into the express image of God. For flesh and blood can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. One has to be spirit. One has to be in the image of God in the image of Christ. Of course this will not be a pleasent thing to have to go through. I believe it will be a painful experience.

Darren

PS Nick the pilot. I guess I decided.
Click to expand...

Maybe you will be cleansed painfully in the lake of fire... I believe it when the bible tells me that my sins are forgiven and thrown into the lake of forgetfullness (lof) :)
 
"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:" - I Peter 1:7

I think that in a way, we who have faith in Christ, faith in God are being tried by fire. That as we commit ourselves to God, the fires of His Righteousness burn out the dross of our sins and errors as he is conforming us into His Image. This purification process takes time, just as gold takes time to purify into 24k. As dross bubbles up to the surface, it gets scraped away and discarded. The new dross come up and likewise is ridded, till we get closer to fine. (Start song here)

But if anything is going to withstand in our lives, there must be something to purify in the first place. That something is the foundation of our faith:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." - I Cor. 3:11-15

If we have nothing to begin with, we will have nothing to end with. That is why God is a consuming fire to those who do not have that foundation. And even those that do have the foundation are warned that the kind of people we are, as exemplified by our actions, will determine the kind of works that will survive the purification process. The more we do for God, the better position we will be when that process is complete.

I dare say, and not to be judgemental I hope, that those who do not have even the foundation, that is that relationship with the Divine that is vital to have Life, both here and the hereafter, will find themselves in a sorry position indeed.

Whether or not there is a literal hell, any one who comes into the Presence of God without anything to show that their life has been worth it, will certainly come to some kind of excruciating fate just by the virtue of being in His Presence.

Now I'm not one to brag, for even as one who does believe in God and am trying to do His will, I shudder to think of what my time will be face to face with God, in light of some of the shameful things I've done in my own life. I think we will all, in varying degrees, find themselves woefully inadequate to face the Living God. Which drives me more to try and rectify the wrongs I've done while I still have life here on this earth. To ask forgiveness for those I've wronged in the past. And to forgive those who have done me wrong.

Just the other day, I went to my high school's alumni website and come to find out that another one of my classmates has died this last April. Same age as me (44). I have no idea what he died of, but it rather jolted me for a number of reasons. For one, this person, for lack of a better term, was a bit of an asshole to me and I was sometimes the butt of his bullying. Yet several years ago, I went through a period of time where I mentally went through my life and forgave everyone who did me wrong, including him. And I tell you that doing so was a very liberating experience for me. It freed me from a lot of bitterness I was harboring. So when I saw that he had died, I felt a bit of sorrow for him. Now I don't know what his spiritual condition was, but I did pray to God that whatever he did to be not to be laid upon his account and I found myself praying for his eternal salvation even after he died. That God would show mercy for his soul. This is not something I would have normally done, for I always been taught that once you are dead, you eternal destiny was sealed. Yet somehow, it felt right to pray for him, to hope that God would forgive him and restore him to life and give him peace in God. Crazy, I know, for the instinct would be for me to have him rot in hell for being an ass to me. But I felt compassion for him, even though he has been nothing but an enemy to me. I dunno, maybe part of the restoring is the forgiveness we lay toward one another.
 
Thomas said:
Hi Darren —



It's not the asking questions, it's the fact that we've had people post here with the intention of setting someone up, to ambush them and knock 'em down — people not interested in what others think, other than to try and make them look stupid.

Don't think you fall into that category ... but I was uncertain there, for a minute.

As to your question:
The Fire of God is a purifying flame — if by majority you're gold, with a bit of dross, then the dross gets burnt off ... if you're mostly dross, then when the gold's refined, there's nothing of 'you' left ...

Have you ever been caught out? Have you ever had someone say "You know better than that" and you know they're right, and you burn with shame?

Have you ever treated anyone badly? Have you ever thought of something you said, or did, or didn't say, or didn't do, to someone ... and cringed?

Have you ever done anything in your life that you can look on and think, I should have done that better? (Not 'could have' but 'should have')

That's it.

Lord! I'm over 50, there's things I can look back on, things I've said and things I've done that I close my eyes when they come to mind ... I've even been known to make involuntary noises when I think of them ... they lie in ambush, and the old adversary reminds me of 'em, whenever he can...

... and I think, when I face the Man, every blessed one of em, and all the other ones I missed, are gonna come home to roost, and I'm either gonna offer 'em up, or try and justify 'em ... and if I offer 'em up, He's gonna smile and say "Let it go... " and I'm in heaven ... but if I try and justify 'em, He's gonna say, "Let's just take a lookey see, shall we ... ?" And then I'm in hell.

And all the while, the ol' adversary whispers in your ear, "He's never gonna let you off for that ... nor that ... man, you are in some deep ..."
That old adversary, he's the father of lies, but we so ready to listen, ain't we?

You know the silliest thing? You know that image of the kid hanging on to the railings, flapping like a flag in the wind? Well, that's us in heaven ...

Well that's us. We think we're outside, hanging on for dear life, terrified of oblivion ... but we're on the inside ... we just won't believe it.

Thomas
Click to expand...

So Thomas you believe in geological places called heaven and hell?
do people go there when they die or there soul goes there when one dies or does one have to wait untill after judgement. I believe in something totally different.

Darren
 
Dondi said:
"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:" - I Peter 1:7

I think that in a way, we who have faith in Christ, faith in God are being tried by fire. That as we commit ourselves to God, the fires of His Righteousness burn out the dross of our sins and errors as he is conforming us into His Image. This purification process takes time, just as gold takes time to purify into 24k. As dross bubbles up to the surface, it gets scraped away and discarded. The new dross come up and likewise is ridded, till we get closer to fine. (Start song here)

But if anything is going to withstand in our lives, there must be something to purify in the first place. That something is the foundation of our faith:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." - I Cor. 3:11-15

If we have nothing to begin with, we will have nothing to end with. That is why God is a consuming fire to those who do not have that foundation. And even those that do have the foundation are warned that the kind of people we are, as exemplified by our actions, will determine the kind of works that will survive the purification process. The more we do for God, the better position we will be when that process is complete.

I dare say, and not to be judgemental I hope, that those who do not have even the foundation, that is that relationship with the Divine that is vital to have Life, both here and the hereafter, will find themselves in a sorry position indeed.

Whether or not there is a literal hell, any one who comes into the Presence of God without anything to show that their life has been worth it, will certainly come to some kind of excruciating fate just by the virtue of being in His Presence.

Now I'm not one to brag, for even as one who does believe in God and am trying to do His will, I shudder to think of what my time will be face to face with God, in light of some of the shameful things I've done in my own life. I think we will all, in varying degrees, find themselves woefully inadequate to face the Living God. Which drives me more to try and rectify the wrongs I've done while I still have life here on this earth. To ask forgiveness for those I've wronged in the past. And to forgive those who have done me wrong.

Just the other day, I went to my high school's alumni website and come to find out that another one of my classmates has died this last April. Same age as me (44). I have no idea what he died of, but it rather jolted me for a number of reasons. For one, this person, for lack of a better term, was a bit of an asshole to me and I was sometimes the butt of his bullying. Yet several years ago, I went through a period of time where I mentally went through my life and forgave everyone who did me wrong, including him. And I tell you that doing so was a very liberating experience for me. It freed me from a lot of bitterness I was harboring. So when I saw that he had died, I felt a bit of sorrow for him. Now I don't know what his spiritual condition was, but I did pray to God that whatever he did to be not to be laid upon his account and I found myself praying for his eternal salvation even after he died. That God would show mercy for his soul. This is not something I would have normally done, for I always been taught that once you are dead, you eternal destiny was sealed. Yet somehow, it felt right to pray for him, to hope that God would forgive him and restore him to life and give him peace in God. Crazy, I know, for the instinct would be for me to have him rot in hell for being an ass to me. But I felt compassion for him, even though he has been nothing but an enemy to me. I dunno, maybe part of the restoring is the forgiveness we lay toward one another.
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I am sure it was a relief that you had forgiven that guy for the crap he put ypu through. I can relate. I also did a personal inventory and man I put a lot of people through alot of crap. I hurt the people I love and the one's I didn't love. Anyways, yes we are judged by our works and I also fear the day I go in front of the Lord because I know I can do so much more than I did and do. That being said all we can do is try to keep Christ as our foundation,and keep seeking, asking, searching and praying for God to give us wisdom to understand His truths.

Did you catch the last verse of 1cor.3:15 If anyone's work is burned,he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet as through fire.

I am a strong believer that we all will be saved. The Lord will not loose one of His sheep and we are all His sheep.

Darren
 
Did you catch the last verse of 1cor.3:15 If anyone's work is burned,he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet as through fire.
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Yeah, but you have to put it in context of the first part of the passage, 'Now if any man build upon this foundation..." What is this fountain? Jesus Christ, of course. The people at the end of the passage already have that foundation. You've gotta have the right foundation or your house of cards falls.
 
Dondi said:
Yeah, but you have to put it in context of the first part of the passage, 'Now if any man build upon this foundation..." What is this fountain? Jesus Christ, of course. The people at the end of the passage already have that foundation. You've gotta have the right foundation or your house of cards falls.
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If not on THIS foundation what happens to their works? It will be the same the works will be burned and the man will be saved.

Darren
 
Talking about the fire of God how about this verse in ZEPHENIAH 1;18



Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to deliver them in the day of Jehovah’s fury; but by the FIRE OF HIS ZEAL the whole earth will be devoured, because he will make an extermination, indeed a terrible one, of all the inhabitants of the earth."



NEVER MIND THE BANK SITUATION its best to read a bit more in zepheniah chapter 2 ;2-3

Before [the] statute gives birth to [anything], [before the] day has passed by just like chaff, before there comes upon YOU people the burning anger of Jehovah, before there comes upon YOU the day of Jehovah’s anger, 3 seek Jehovah, all YOU meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably YOU may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger.


lets not lose the real focus we should have

SEEK SEEK AND SEEK


seek Jehovah,
seek righteousness
seek meekness
 
winner08 said:
So Thomas you believe in geological places called heaven and hell?
Click to expand...
Good grief no! However did you arrive at that impression?

winner08 said:
do people go there when they die or there soul goes there when one dies or does one have to wait untill after judgement.
Click to expand...
Again, you're assuming the eternal is conditioned by time, I don't think it is (that's the difference between 'eternal' and 'eternity'). So there's no question of 'now' and 'then' in the eternal, there's no time, there's no waiting...

With regard to us, however, perhaps it's easier understood as:

There are those who 'sleep in Christ' and await the Judgement, they are perhaps close to what the Jews understand as Sheol, neither dead nor alive, but waiting for that final trial, the separation of the wheat from the chaff.

There are those who, by virtue of their own heroic efforts to purify their own souls, are 'awake' in Christ — their example, their spirit, what have you, is an active inspiration for those who follow ... they are models and exemplars of the tradition ... for us they are very much alive in it.

Of course, we view this as a temporal condition because the world hasn't ended yet, and so the day of reckoning for us is yet to come ... they however, might well be outside the temporal order, so perhaps for them the Judgement has already happened.

Thomas
 
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