The firstborn of creation

[mee]

I remember reading somewhere that the Chinese genius renders it thus:

"In the beginning was the Way, and the Way was with God, and the Way was God."

I also recall Jesus saying, "I am the way and the tuth and the life."

I would like to use capitals here, to make my meaning clear:

The Way, the Truth, and the Life never said, "I am a way, a truth, and a life, (because I am only a god)."

Nor could He, for He was the Way Itself, Truth Itself, and Life Itself, and so God (Him)Self, I AM.

Respectfully,

Learner

many people say many things , but what is of most importance is to get back to what the inspired scriptures really taught.


Jesus is God’s "firstborn" (Col 1:15)
as God’s first creation, called "the Word" in his prehuman existence. (Joh 1:1)

The word "beginning" in John 1:1 cannot refer to the "beginning" of God the Creator, for he is eternal, having no beginning. (Ps 90:2)

It must therefore refer to the beginning of creation, when the Word was brought forth by God as his firstborn Son.

The term "beginning" is used in various other texts similarly to describe the start of some period or career or course, such as the "beginning" of the Christian career of those to whom John wrote his first letter (1Jo 2:7; 3:11),

the "beginning" of Satan’s rebellious course (1Jo 3:8)

or the "beginning" of Judas’ deflection from righteousness. (Joh 6:64
Jesus is the "only-begotten Son" (Joh 3:16) in that he is the only one of God’s sons, spirit or human, created solely by God, for all others were created through, or "by means of," that firstborn Son.—Col 1:16, 17;

 

[mee]

Firstborn of all creation

The meaning of this phrase is one that is consistently misapplied by the Jehovahs Witnesses, as it is, I believe, by the Church of the Latter Day Saints, so I thought it worth a look.



Thomas

getting back to what the bible REALLY teaches is what it is all about for Jeehovahs witnesses.



As wisdom personified, this firstborn Son in his prehuman existence is represented as saying:





"I came to be the one [Jehovah] was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time." (Proverbs 8:30)

Surely spending countless ages in intimate association with the Source of love had a profound effect on God’s Son! (1 John 4:8)
This Son came to know and reflect his Father’s thoughts, feelings, and ways as no one else could.—Matthew 11:27.

 

[bob x]

Something I'm certain you are neither, once you get past your anger.

On this subject I have no "anger", just bemusement. I don't even know what you mean, and am far from certain that you do mean.

 

[Nick_A]

Deciding who was first born of creation is confusing enouth but then we have people arguing over who appeared first.

John 8:

57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

How insulting can one be. Before Obama, people were proud of their birth crtificates. It is clear that Abraham ame before Jesus yet Jesus has the audacity to suggest otherwise. No wonder they hurled stones at him.

But what can you do? Theancients didn't have the fruits of modern education and the self appointed experts to resolve the problem and prevent people from throwing stones.

 

[mee]

Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been." JOHN 8; 58




yes , as we can see from this verse ,Jesus was only telling the truth and the religious leaders didnt like it .


he was around before Abraham, thats because he was around in heaven way before Abraham was born . Jesus always told the truth , and religious leaders do not like the truth

Jesus-in Existence Before Abraham​

Joh 8:58—"before Abraham came into existence, I have been"​

Gr., πρὶν᾿Αβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί

(prin A·bra·am´ ge·ne´sthai e·go´ ei·mi´)​

 

[Thomas]

Hi Mee —

"Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been." John 8:58

Actually, the more common and usual translation is "Before Abraham was, I am" — every translation I checked reads it that way.

The verb to 'be used' in the present tense with the pronoun 'I' — ego eimi — occurs 74 times in the New Testament, and is logically translated as "I am": 55 times as "am" and six times as "it is I" ...

The centurion in Matthew 8:8 for example —
"Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed."
As we profess in the Roman Liturgy.

In fact, it is only used once in the sense you ascribe to it:
John 14:9
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?"
And this in the interrogatory sense.

... but let us continue ...

If you read the following verse:
"Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." 8:59
The question is, according to your translation, what's all the fuss? Here we have a man, presumably preaching reincarnation?

Speaking in Aramaic (and perhaps on this occasion even Hebrew), "I am" is a Sacred Name, revealed to Moses on Mount Sinai — so to say "I am" in this context is to make a pointed and blasphemous statement, whereas to say "I have been" is relatively harmless ... it's just a nonsensical claim.

However to say "I am" in this context is a blasphemy because it is an explicit claim to an equal status with the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses.

The fact that His Jewish audience sought to stone Him suggests they saw precisely that ... so Catholic exegesis I would suggest is the more accurate reading, according to His audience's reaction. If they read it as you read it, they would have laughed and walked away...

Thomas

 

[mee]

Hi Mee —



Actually, the more common and usual translation is "Before Abraham was, I am" — every translation I checked reads it that way.



Thomas

And many translations give the wrong meaning .

but some translate in a more understanding way and do not lose the meaning.

"before Abraham was, ​

Syriac—Edition:

before ever Abraham
came to be, I was ​

Curetonian Syriac—Edition:

"before Abraham
existed, I was" ​

Syriac Petsitta—Edition:

before Abraham
came to be, I was ​

Georgian—Edition:

"before Abraham
was born, I was" ​

Ethiopic—Edition:

With reference to his prehuman existence, Jesus said to unbelieving Jews: "Before Abraham ever was, I Am." (John 8:58, Jerusalem Bible) ​

Did Jesus thereby identify himself as being Jehovah? Did not God tell Moses, "‘I Am who I Am. This’ he added ‘is what you must say to the sons of Israel: "I Am has sent me to you"’"? (Ex. 3:14, Je) ​

Many translations use the expression "I Am" both at John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14. But do both texts express the same thought?​

No. ​

We know that they do not because at Exodus 3:14 the Greek Septuagint Version (the translation that was often quoted by the apostles in the first century C.E.) reads, e·go´ ei·mi´ ho Ohn´, "I am the Being." This is quite different from the simple use of the words e·go´ ei·mi´ (I am) at John 8:58. ​

The verb ei·mi´, at John 8:58, is evidently in the historical present, as Jesus was speaking about himself in relation to Abraham’s past. ​

Numerous translators indicate this in their renderings. For example, An American Translation reads: "I existed before Abraham was born!"​