The G!d of Spinoza?

[wil]

When Einstein gave lectures at U.S. universities, the recurring question that students asked him most was:
- Do you believe in God?
And he always answered:
- I believe in the God of Spinoza.

Baruch de Spinoza was a Dutch philosopher considered one of the great rationalists of 17th century philosophy, along with Descartes.

(Spinoza) : God would say:

Stop praying.
What I want you to do is go out into the world and enjoy your life. I want you to sing, have fun and enjoy everything I've made for you.

Stop going into those dark, cold temples that you built yourself and saying they are my house. My house is in the mountains, in the woods, rivers, lakes, beaches. That's where I live and there I express my love for you.

Stop blaming me for your miserable life; I never told you there was anything wrong with you or that you were a sinner, or that your sexuality was a bad thing. Sex is a gift I have given you and with which you can express your love, your ecstasy, your joy. So don't blame me for everything they made you believe.

Stop reading alleged sacred scriptures that have nothing to do with me. If you can't read me in a sunrise, in a landscape, in the look of your friends, in your son's eyes... ➤ you will find me in no book!
Stop asking me "will you tell me how to do my job?" Stop being so scared of me. I do not judge you or criticize you, nor get angry, or bothered. I am pure love.

Stop asking for forgiveness, there's nothing to forgive. If I made you... I filled you with passions, limitations, pleasures, feelings, needs, inconsistencies... free will. How can I blame you if you respond to something I put in you? How can I punish you for being the way you are, if I'm the one who made you? Do you think I could create a place to burn all my children who behave badly for the rest of eternity? What kind of god would do that?

Respect your peers and don't do what you don't want for yourself. All I ask is that you pay attention in your life, that alertness is your guide.

My beloved, this life is not a test, not a step on the way, not a rehearsal, nor a prelude to paradise. This life is the only thing here and now and it is all you need.

I have set you absolutely free, no prizes or punishments, no sins or virtues, no one carries a marker, no one keeps a record.
You are absolutely free to create in your life. Heaven or hell.

➤ I can't tell you if there's anything after this life but I can give you a tip. Live as if there is not. As if this is your only chance to enjoy, to love, to exist.

So, if there's nothing after, then you will have enjoyed the opportunity I gave you. And if there is, rest assured that I won't ask if you behaved right or wrong, I'll ask. Did you like it? Did you have fun? What did you enjoy the most? What did you learn?...

Stop believing in me; believing is assuming, guessing, imagining. I don't want you to believe in me, I want you to believe in you. I want you to feel me in you when you kiss your beloved, when you tuck in your little girl, when you caress your dog, when you bathe in the sea.

Stop praising me, what kind of egomaniac God do you think I am?

I'm bored being praised. I'm tired of being thanked. Feeling grateful? Prove it by taking care of yourself, your health, your relationships, the world. Express your joy! That's the way to praise me.

Stop complicating things and repeating as a parakeet what you've been taught about me.

What do you need more miracles for? So many explanations?

The only thing for sure is that you are here, that you are alive, that this world is full of wonders.

- Spinoza

 

[RJM]

Stop praying.
What I want you to do is go out into the world and enjoy your life. I want you to sing, have fun and enjoy everything I've made for you.

Enjoy bowel cancer, starvation, rape and burning and bombing of innocents, single African mother unable to find cleaning work to provide for her child born with medical problems, repressive dictators, etc?

Yep ... stop praying folks

 

[RJM]

Sorry, but Spinoza didn't write like that.

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PART ONE, PROP. XI. God, or substance, consisting of infinite attributes, of which each expresses eternal and infinite essentiality, necessarily exists. Proof.—If this be denied, conceive, if possible, that God does not exist: then his essence does not involve existence. But this (Prop. vii.) is absurd. Therefore God necessarily exists.

Another proof.—Of everything whatsoever a cause or reason must be assigned, either for its existence, or for its non-existence-e.g. if a triangle exist, a reason or cause must be granted for its existence; if, on the contrary, it does not exist, a cause must also be granted, which prevents it from existing, or annuls its existence. This reason or cause must either be contained in the nature of the thing in question, or be external to it.

For instance, the reason for the non-existence of a square circle is indicated in its nature, namely, because it would involve a contradiction. On the other hand, the existence of substance follows also solely from its nature, inasmuch as its nature involves existence. (See Prop. vii.) But the reason for the existence of a triangle or a circle does not follow from the nature of those figures, but from the order of universal nature in extension.

From the latter it must follow, either that a triangle necessarily exists, or that it is impossible that it should exist. So much is self-evident. It follows therefrom that a thing necessarily exists, if no cause or reason be granted which prevents its existence.

If, then, no cause or reason can be given, which prevents the existence of God, or which destroys his existence, we must certainly conclude that he necessarily does exist. If such a reason or cause should be given, it must either be drawn from the very nature of God, or be external to him-that is, drawn from another substance of another nature.

For if it were of the same nature, God, by that very fact, would be admitted to exist. But substance of another nature could have nothing in common with God (by Prop. ii.), and therefore would be unable either to cause or to destroy his existence.

As, then, a reason or cause which would annul the divine existence cannot be drawn from anything external to the divine nature, such cause must perforce, if God does not exist, be drawn from God's own nature, which would involve a contradiction. To make such an affirmation about a being absolutely infinite and supremely perfect is absurd; therefore, neither in the nature of God, nor externally to his nature, can a cause or reason be assigned which would annul his existence.

Therefore, God necessarily exists. Q.E.D. Another proof.—The potentiality of non-existence is a negation of power, and contrariwise the potentiality of existence is a power, as is obvious.

If, then, that which necessarily exists is nothing but finite beings, such finite beings are more powerful than a being absolutely infinite, which is obviously absurd; therefore, either nothing exists, or else a being absolutely infinite necessarily exists also. Now we exist either in ourselves, or in something else which necessarily exists (see Axiom. i. and Prop. vii.).

Therefore a being absolutely infinite-in other words, God (Def. vi.)-necessarily exists. Q.E.D. Note.—In this last proof, I have purposely shown God's existence à posteriori, so that the proof might be more easily followed, not because, from the same premises, God's existence does not follow à priori.

For, as the potentiality of existence is a power, it follows that, in proportion as reality increases in the nature of a thing, so also will it increase its strength for existence. Therefore a being absolutely infinite, such as God, has from himself an absolutely infinite power of existence, and hence he does absolutely exist. Perhaps there will be many who will be unable to see the force of this proof, inasmuch as they are accustomed only to consider those things which flow from external causes.

Of such things, they see that those which quickly come to pass-that is, quickly come into existence-quickly also disappear; whereas they regard as more difficult of accomplishment-that is, not so easily brought into existence-those things which they conceive as more complicated.

However, to do away with this misconception, I need not here show the measure of truth in the proverb, "What comes quickly, goes quickly," nor discuss whether, from the point of view of universal nature, all things are equally easy, or otherwise: I need only remark that I am not here speaking of things, which come to pass through causes external to themselves, but only of substances which (by Prop. vi.) cannot be produced by any external cause. Things which are produced by external causes, whether they consist of many parts or few, owe whatsoever perfection or reality they possess solely to the efficacy of their external cause; and therefore their existence arises solely from the perfection of their external cause, not from their own.

Contrrariwise, whatsoever perfection is possessed by substance is due to no external cause; wherefore the existence of substance must arise solely from its own nature, which is nothing else but its essence. Thus, the perfection of a thing does not annul its existence, but, on the contrary, asserts it. Imperfection, on the other hand, does annul it; therefore we cannot be more certain of the existence of anything, than of the existence of a being absolutely infinite or perfect-that is, of God.

For inasmuch as his essence excludes all imperfection, and involves absolute perfection, all cause for doubt concerning his existence is done away, and the utmost certainty on the question is given. This, I think, will be evident to every moderately attentive reader ...

 

[Thomas]

Seems this tract is doing the rounds ... quoted verbatim, so they're all cut-n-pasting from each other.

 

[RJM]

@wil
I hope I have not upset you?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Don't need a God, whatever type he may be. Living life happily. No after-life for me (of course, the atoms that constitute me are eternal).

 

[wil]

@wil
I hope I have not upset you?

Enjoy bowel cancer, starvation, rape and burning and bombing of innocents, single African mother unable to find cleaning work to provide for her child born with medical problems, repressive dictators, etc?

Yep ... stop praying folks

Praying has been shown to help on any of those?

In my world praying only affects my attitude, my ability to get my mindset to accept what I can't change and the impetus to change what I can. It is pray (adjust your mindset) but move your feet (do something productive) around here.

But upset me? Naw...I got busy building out a semi trailer.as a kitchen and repair shop to be sent to Burning Man as a camp and to be utilized on playa repairing things folks need. The Fckd|Fixd camp will be test run there with the goal of being sent to disaster areas to help folks. They are trying to drag me back out to the desert to wander again...and wear me out!

 

[RJM]

Praying has been shown to help on any of those?

To very many, peace and comfort

 

[wil]

To very many, peace and comfort

Absolutely! Including me...exactly the way I described...I know it irritates people to no end that I give credit to my doctors and caregivers for the miracles that they actually are...and not to whatever else folks believe to be true.

 

[RJM]

I don't see prayer and medical treatment as mutually exclusive?

The OP says

Stop praying.
What I want you to do is go out into the world and enjoy your life. I want you to sing, have fun and enjoy everything I've made for you.

Are these the word of God to a ghetto heroin addict or a hungry refugee family?

 

[wil]

I don't see prayer and medical treatment as mutually exclusive?

The OP says

Are these the word of God to a ghetto heroin addict or a hungry refugee family?

In my mind...in my understanding there ain't a Biblical G!d. That has words and talks to addicts or refugees.

Me, I would not give them false hope to feel good. I would encourage THEY work towards understanding it is up to them to take the steps...to accept the help offered by humans (treatment, camps, shelters) and do what they can to help themselves, be it work, or avoiding druggie friends, or scavenge for food.

I have been lucky enough to have lived on the streets, been broke, hitchhiked around, lucky enough to have learned if it is to be it is upto me!

These trials surely haven't hardened my heart against those struggling...but against those offering prayer as comfort. It did nothing for me....since I don't believe.

Now if the addict and refugee are believers...and would like your prayers ...kumbiyah and hallelujah.

But I think they would be better served with a universal basic income and housing allowance , job training and drug counseling.

I am a former alcoholic and drug abuser...many would say I still am.(As I still drink and smoke) I have lost relationships and jobs and friends due to my excess. But I have learned to curb my excess.

 

[RJM]

In my mind...in my understanding there ain't a Biblical G!d. That has words and talks to addicts or refugees.

Me, I would not give them false hope to feel good. I would encourage THEY work towards understanding it is up to them to take the steps...to accept the help offered by humans (treatment, camps, shelters) and do what they can to help themselves, be it work, or avoiding druggie friends, or scavenge for food.

I have been lucky enough to have lived on the streets, been broke, hitchhiked around, lucky enough to have learned if it is to be it is upto me!

These trials surely haven't hardened my heart against those struggling...but against those offering prayer as comfort. It did nothing for me....since I don't believe.

Now if the addict and refugee are believers...and would like your prayers ...kumbiyah and hallelujah.

But I think they would be better served with a universal basic income and housing allowance , job training and drug counseling.

I am a former alcoholic and drug abuser...many would say I still am.(As I still drink and smoke) I have lost relationships and jobs and friends due to my excess. But I have learned to curb my excess.

God helps many any does respond to prayer. I know it because God has helped me and still does every day. So we just have to disagree. You have your life, I have mine. However it is wrong to mock and discourage the faith of others, imo