Atheism the ultimate stupidity ?

Nick_A said:
For the few seriously trying to reconcile Christianity and atheism rather than taking sides in and argument, Simone Weil has been a tremendous help. Her understanding is experiential since she was a respected atheist and anarchist appreciated by Leon Trotsky but died a Christian mystic and an influence on Pope Paul V1. Contemplating her reasoning can be beneficial for those seeking understanding rather than the joy of arguing.



Life on earth for Man is animal in nature and doesn't require knowledge of God. A dog is not stupid animal and functions well on earth. Animalistic man reacting to his environment is not stupid either. Intelligence is useful and necessary for life on earth but doesn't require what the essence of religion offers which is freedom from the earth or as she puts it, leaving the prison of plato's cave.




She asserts that much of religion is just distorted belief and escapism. It is the atheist that is willing to admit it. This influence aids in exposing the BS in religion. Exposing the BS purifys the essence of religion. However, to experience the truth of the essence of religion requires being open to more than the dualistic mind and our animal nature. It requires developing new ears to hear and eyes to see: the supernatural part of ourselves.
The atheist helps us to admit our corruption and acquire the humility to potentially profit from this purification before falling victim to more "experts"
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Interesting post Nick
 
Very nice Nick, I've always asserted that the atheist is closer to the mystic than are the religious. I also think that a study of the atheist movement is a wise practice for any religious person who truly wishes to understand.
 
Paladin said:
Very nice Nick, I've always asserted that the atheist is closer to the mystic than are the religious. I also think that a study of the atheist movement is a wise practice for any religious person who truly wishes to understand.
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wishes to understand what ?
 
But dont worry there is hope :)

because

Isaiah 42:5-9 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

5 This is what God the LORD says
who created the heavens and stretched them out,
who spread out the earth and what comes from it,
who gives breath to the people on it
and life to those who walk on it

6 "I, the LORD, have called you
for a righteous [purpose],
and I will hold you by your hand.
I will keep you, and I make you
a covenant for the people
[and] a light to the nations,

7 in order to open blind eyes,
to bring out prisoners from the dungeon,
[and] those sitting in darkness from the prison house.

8 I am Yahweh, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
or my praise to idols.

9 The past events have indeed happened.
Now I declare new events;
I announce them to you before they occur."
 
Paladin said:
Very nice Nick, I've always asserted that the atheist is closer to the mystic than are the religious. I also think that a study of the atheist movement is a wise practice for any religious person who truly wishes to understand.
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I used to be an atheist, but I didn't have enough faith to keep it. ;)
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
Yes. Tell me exactly what God is and I'll tell you if I believe in it.

Chris
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Exactly my point. :)

GlorytoGod said:
But dont worry there is hope :)

because

Isaiah 42:5-9 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

5 This is what God the LORD says
who created the heavens and stretched them out,
who spread out the earth and what comes from it,
who gives breath to the people on it
and life to those who walk on it

6 "I, the LORD, have called you
for a righteous [purpose],
and I will hold you by your hand.
I will keep you, and I make you
a covenant for the people
[and] a light to the nations,

7 in order to open blind eyes,
to bring out prisoners from the dungeon,
[and] those sitting in darkness from the prison house.

8 I am Yahweh, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
or my praise to idols.

9 The past events have indeed happened.
Now I declare new events;
I announce them to you before they occur."
Click to expand...

Okay, so you're a Christian quoting from a Jewish text. It still hasn't answered the question of "What is God". I seem to recall multiple point of views among Christianity that were very conflicting. :)

Therefore the most logical thing to presume is that the subject of the question is not yet properly defined, therefore it would be illogical to believe in something that hasn't yet been determined. :)

Actually, I'm not being flippant - I've experienced direct communion with God in a way most people on this board could never comprehend, so if someone is going to tell me they know God because they read something in a book once, I'm going to have to try hard to not be patronising. :)
 
Nick_A said:
...much of religion is just distorted belief and escapism. It is the atheist that is willing to admit it. This influence aids in exposing the BS in religion. Exposing the BS purifys the essence of religion. However, to experience the truth of the essence of religion requires being open to more than the dualistic mind and our animal nature. It requires developing new ears to hear and eyes to see: the supernatural part of ourselves.
The atheist helps us to admit our corruption and acquire the humility to potentially profit from this purification before falling victim to more "experts"
Click to expand...

I agree with most of this, but I haven't found the bottom of the BS in religion, at least not in any modern sense. I don't believe in the existence of the pure artifact. Or more accurately, I don't believe that such a conservative ideal is at all approachable without a primitivism which would render a person unable to function mentally, intellectually, and probably physically.

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I agree with most of this, but I haven't found the bottom of the BS in religion, at least not in any modern sense. I don't believe in the existence of the pure artifact. Or more accurately, I don't believe that such a conservative ideal is at all approachable without a primitivism which would render a person unable to function mentally, intellectually, and probably physically.

Chris
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You won't find it in the modern secularized religions. If you did, they wouldn't be secular.

It potentially could be a conservative ideal and wouldn't inhibit critical thought but instead would enhance it. Must awareness of the help offered by higher consciousness detract from critical thought?

T.S. Eliot wrote in the preface to Simone Weil's "The Need for Roots:"

"This is one of those books which ought to be studied by the young before their leisure has been lost and their capacity for thought destroyed; books the effect of which, we can only hope, will become apparent in the attitude of mind of another generation."
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It won't because it deals with this issue. The question is how society can further the growth of individuality that connects secularism with the sacred. Fat chance of that ever becoming a part of modern educational thought. Wiki gives a fairly good summary of this book:

Simone Weil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The section on "Obligations v Rights" followed by "Spirituality and Politics" is no longer attractive to the secular gimmee mind. Yet it offers much food for thought. It is one of the few times I disagree with Simone. As the book progresses she offers ways in which a society could have values that further the connection between the secular and the sacred that serve also to unite science with religion. Of course it was written in the 1940s and maybe that explains it. As much as I admire her insight since she had this depth few are capable of, I no longer believe it possible in the twenty first century without a tremendous societal collapse that forces humanity to admit to the human condition. We have to learn the hard way even at the cost of great suffering.

That is not to say I won't push her ideas. It just means that I believe that they are now sadly only for a minority until we learn the hard way.
 
I said:
Okay, so you're a Christian quoting from a Jewish text. It still hasn't answered the question of "What is God". I seem to recall multiple point of views among Christianity that were very conflicting. :)

Therefore the most logical thing to presume is that the subject of the question is not yet properly defined, therefore it would be illogical to believe in something that hasn't yet been determined. :)

Actually, I'm not being flippant - I've experienced direct communion with God in a way most people on this board could never comprehend, so if someone is going to tell me they know God because they read something in a book once, I'm going to have to try hard to not be patronising. :)
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OK, *NOW* my interest is piqued...c'mon Brian, spill...I gotta see where you're coming from. PM if you prefer, but I am very interested to hear this.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I agree with most of this, but I haven't found the bottom of the BS in religion, at least not in any modern sense. I don't believe in the existence of the pure artifact. Or more accurately, I don't believe that such a conservative ideal is at all approachable without a primitivism which would render a person unable to function mentally, intellectually, and probably physically.

Chris
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Don't forget that well-aged BS makes excellent fertilizer for your garden.
 
I said:
Actually, I'm not being flippant - I've experienced direct communion with God in a way most people on this board could never comprehend, so if someone is going to tell me they know God because they read something in a book once, I'm going to have to try hard to not be patronising. :)
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that's a very egotistical assumption to make Brian :eek:
 
juantoo3 said:
OK, *NOW* my interest is piqued...c'mon Brian, spill...I gotta see where you're coming from. PM if you prefer, but I am very interested to hear this.
Click to expand...

I'll finally get around to it here one day. :)

GlorytoGod said:
that's a very egotistical assumption to make Brian :eek:
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Perhaps. Any more egotistical than anyone here stating they think they know any kind of "truth"? :)
 
I said:
I'll finally get around to it here one day. :)



Perhaps. Any more egotistical than anyone here stating they think they know any kind of "truth"? :)
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LOL

Ok in true I Brian stylee what is "truth" ?
 
GlorytoGod said:
LOL

Ok in true I Brian stylee what is "truth" ?
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Answering a question with a question... that isn't dialogue. You started the thread, in order to proceed some needed an answer to a question so they knew where you were coming from.
Paladin said:
Very nice Nick, I've always asserted that the atheist is closer to the mystic than are the religious. I also think that a study of the atheist movement is a wise practice for any religious person who truly wishes to understand.
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I think the mystics are found all over. It is apparent to me that no religion has the corner on mysticism, connection to G!d, spirituality, altruism, morality...etc.

Funny how the above can be read. No religion ie atheists/agnostics or No religion ie not any one religion...

For clarification when I said no religion I meant not any one religion and I include the atheists, the agnostics and the non religious amongst them. Now connection to G!d could be classified as a tricky thing for some, but I believe it depends on your definition of G!d.
 
wil said:
Answering a question with a question... that isn't dialogue.
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Why not? :p
You started the thread, in order to proceed some needed an answer to a question so they knew where you were coming from.I think the mystics are found all over. It is apparent to me that no religion has the corner on mysticism, connection to G!d, spirituality, altruism, morality...etc.

Funny how the above can be read. No religion ie atheists/agnostics or No religion ie not any one religion...

For clarification when I said no religion I meant not any one religion and I include the atheists, the agnostics and the non religious amongst them. Now connection to G!d could be classified as a tricky thing for some, but I believe it depends on your definition of G!d.
Click to expand...
I agree with you that you can't contain God within a box.
 
GlorytoGod said:
how can anyone not believe in God ?

is atheism the ultimate stupidity ?
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1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull. 2. characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless: a stupid question. 3. tediously dull, esp. due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless: a stupid party. 4. annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio. 5. in a state of stupor; stupefied: stupid from fatigue.

adj. stu·pid·er, stu·pid·est 1. Slow to learn or understand; obtuse. 2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes. 3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake. 4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied. 5. Pointless; worthless: a stupid job.

Which stupid did you mean? I would gather you intended the third line of the second entry. Foolish, lacking in intelligence or care, right? Allow us to compare: Atheism does not acknowledge (G/g)od(s). Theism acknowledges (G/g)od(s) without empirical evidence on the basis of belief "just because." Faith "just because." One seems rather stupider than the other, to be sure.
 
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