Where the 3 Wise Men Descendants of Ishmael?

soleil10

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I believe the 3 Wise Men were descendants of Ishmael. Do you ?

I believe, it was a sign that God wanted Jesus to reunite together the 2 children of Abraham at that time.

Today the children of Abraham are still fighting, 2000 later.
 
I believe the 3 Wise Men were descendants of Ishmael. Do you ?

I believe, it was a sign that God wanted Jesus to reunite together the 2 children of Abraham at that time.

Today the children of Abraham are still fighting, 2000 later.

Why would you think Ishmael, a man whom God called a "wild ass amongst men" in the Torah, that his descendants would all of a sudden be called wise?

Muslims do consider Ishmael the ancestor of Mohammad...which would explain why they are fighting one another :eek:
 
The origin of the struggle between the children of Abraham was due to the disunity between Haggar, Sarah and Abraham.

Jesus came for all of us. The 3 wise men were astrologers. I believe they were Zoroastrians.
 
I believe the 3 Wise Men were descendants of Ishmael. Do you ?

I believe, it was a sign that God wanted Jesus to reunite together the 2 children of Abraham at that time.

Today the children of Abraham are still fighting, 2000 later.


are you trying to make jesus a failure?

or are you a commedian working on an act?
 
are you trying to make jesus a failure?

or are you a commedian working on an act?

Jesus did not fail God. I have the utmost respect for Jesus
People of his time failed Jesus.

PS:Cant you talk to me without mocking me ?
 
I believe the 3 Wise Men were descendants of Ishmael. Do you ?

There's no attempt to make the point in the NT - however, one thing the NT is very big on is justifying the importance of Jesus through associations, and the three magi are obviously very respectable figures - it would be easy to see them as diaspora Jews from Babylon, as a sign of all Judasim accepting Jesus as the Messiah.

2c.
 
There's no attempt to make the point in the NT - however, one thing the NT is very big on is justifying the importance of Jesus through associations, and the three magi are obviously very respectable figures - it would be easy to see them as diaspora Jews from Babylon, as a sign of all Judasim accepting Jesus as the Messiah.

2c.

notice the 3 are said to be present just at the birth

and then, herod was in council with 'mages' (then the order to find the child)

then another vision to joseph (they leave)

perhaps the magi came back to warn joseph, being the magi had council with herod


as a sign of all Judasim accepting Jesus as the Messiah.

what sign that 'all' accepted?..... reads to me like a couple women and a couple dozen men........... throughout the whole known world of the time

who cared for Jesus when He was being tried?

even now, who cares to follow what HE was said to say?
 
Jesus did not fail God. I have the utmost respect for Jesus
this was your post not mine

I believe the 3 Wise Men were descendants of Ishmael. Do you ?

I believe, it was a sign that God wanted Jesus to reunite together the 2 children of Abraham at that time.

Today the children of Abraham are still fighting, 2000 later.

YOU.......... said God wanted Jesus to reunite the lines of Abraham.

Did it happen?

No it hasn't.....

People of his time failed Jesus.
just as you are failing jesus too

you BELIEVE you have the right to just spout and then when someone asked for evidence you just back up and withdraw

you BELIEVE you can BS and have no responsibility

PS:Cant you talk to me without mocking me ?

you mock yourself, your family, Jesus and humanity........ all by yourself!

go look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are a dog

you will say no because you have evidence of the differences

when you contest knowledge; provide evidence of the differences

otherwise you are actually that dog
 
There's no attempt to make the point in the NT - however, one thing the NT is very big on is justifying the importance of Jesus through associations, and the three magi are obviously very respectable figures - it would be easy to see them as diaspora Jews from Babylon, as a sign of all Judasim accepting Jesus as the Messiah.
2c.

Brian,

We have to ask the question, why Jesus, despite all the great revelations to people around him ended up being born in a manger under such unsanitary conditions for him and his mother.

Where were Zachariah, Elisabeth and even Joseph family ?

Here is what Elisabeth said about Jesus: She even called Mary, the mother of my lord.Luke 1:39-56
[39] At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, [40] where she entered Zechariah's home and greeted Elizabeth. [41] When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. [42] In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! [43] But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? [44] As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. [45] Blessed is she who has believed that what the Lord has said to her will be accomplished!"

If you think that someone is pregnant with the Lord, would not you attend to her ? We have all these wondeful revelations and signs but Jesus ended up in a manger.

Why did the wise men never return. Was the sign of their visit substantially enough for God ?
 
this was your post not mine

my post was respectful of Jesus.



YOU.......... said God wanted Jesus to reunite the lines of Abraham

Did it happen?

No it hasn't....

That is why, it is still a problem today. It started in Abraham family. Unless this is understood we cannot understand how to solve the Middle East crisis.
 
Why would you think Ishmael, a man whom God called a "wild ass amongst men" in the Torah, that his descendants would all of a sudden be called wise?

Muslims do consider Ishmael the ancestor of Mohammad...which would explain why they are fighting one another :eek:

I reflected about what you wrote. I think God knew that the enmity in the seed of Abraham would eplode in the character of Ishmael and his line.....and he was right

The source is the disunity between Sarah, Haggar and Abraham.
 
my post was respectful of Jesus.
in your mind you think you are being respectful but the example you present makes it seem as if Jesus did not do what God wanted

which shares 2 things;

you do not know what "God" wanted

and that Jesus was not capable of doing God's will


That is why, it is still a problem today.
no it isn't.....

It started in Abraham family. Unless this is understood we cannot understand how to solve the Middle East crisis.

mankind has been dividing since the beginning of time based on selfishness

for example: guys like you who sell what they believe but have no foundations to the crap coming out of their mouth

then a few hear it, and lies are born

if people would just settle in on integrity or simply judge the corrupt with an iron fist, then lies would be reduced over time

personally if you and i were in proximity (while you type all this BS), be certain you would have been educated

not because i am mean, but because i care for others and have already recognized it is the fools that created the lies

And even if you were not the creator of the crap; your intent, integrity and failure of being true; continues the fire
 
in your mind you think you are being respectful but the example you present makes it seem as if Jesus did not do what God wanted

which shares 2 things;

you do not know what "God" wanted

and that Jesus was not capable of doing God's will

no it isn't.....

You forgot a 3rd thing that is very,very,very important

Men/women (us) failing to fulfill their portion of responsibility .
God prepared Israel to received Jesus and Jesus needed support of the people, especially those around him that received revelation.

mankind has been dividing since the beginning of time based on selfishness

In this post, I was referring to the difficult situation in the Middle East having its roots in the disunity between Sarah/Haggar and Abraham

I was not referring to what happened in the Garden with our first ancestors.
 
You forgot a 3rd thing that is very,very,very important

Men/women (us) failing to fulfill their portion of responsibility .
but you can be responsible, if you choose.

you can be mR a1, and today.... choose to be that good!

God prepared Israel to received Jesus and Jesus needed support of the people, especially those around him that received revelation.

and what exactly was Jesus sharing? Was it injil?

was it, to prepare?

what was the primary 'faith' to keep? (be honest)


In this post, I was referring to the difficult situation in the Middle East having its roots in the disunity between Sarah/Haggar and Abraham

I was not referring to what happened in the Garden with our first ancestors.
the point was, even on gardening day, the divide from God, Others, Mankind, schisms, war in the middle east..... all them divides are because of errors of knowledge (hence the division)

so, to begin any revelations of pure content, the combining knowledge must be the grounding scope to pursue.

suggesting jesus did not make pops happy or not do what he expected is without justification because logically we know not what any of them were thinking; just what is recorded by opinions

so be the 4th WISE man and stand as a symbol to us all of being HONEST because you know that above anything we can choose to be RESPONSIBLE

you be the MAN, the A1 as an example we all wish to become :)
 
I believe the 3 Wise Men were descendants of Ishmael. Do you ?

I believe, it was a sign that God wanted Jesus to reunite together the 2 children of Abraham at that time.

Today the children of Abraham are still fighting, 2000 later.
Ishmael was a desert dwelling archer, highly intelligent, nomadic and stubborn as an ass...

The Magi who came from Babylon, were Persians.
 
Some people believe Abraham is the same as Brahma the Hindu god. That may signify how long ago Abraham was around. I thought I read somewhere that some people think Abraham never existed and was a story.

So if one wants to believe that Abraham actually had a son, anyways it would be from a very long time ago.

I personally feel that people with origins from the middle-east, which is pretty much all the nations west of India, have a major tendency to fight more so than the people located east of India. Its not like wars have not been fought in the east, but I think the west-side is unusually prone to go to war. Look at recent history alone, you might get the idea that people west of India really like to fight big wars, like as if they were war gods. Thus I think the Hindu`s or Buddhist nicknamed them the Assura`s (war gods) a long time ago.

Maybe Assyria.

TK

p.s. Soleil, I suspect you are two people at least right now..
 
Two children of Abraham that need to unite are, in my view although I think it might sound a bit arrogant on behalf of Abrahamic religions when put in this context, are the Arab nations and India. When put face to face, these two nations are the oldest rivals in history, of which India is the older brother.

And not that I can explain this in full, or are totally convinced by this theory, but I believe the world would be a better place if the Arabs admit that their civilization came from India, originally. That would be a start in admitting to the truth, if it is the truth.


TK
 
I believe the 3 Wise Men were descendants of Ishmael. Do you ?

I believe, it was a sign that God wanted Jesus to reunite together the 2 children of Abraham at that time.

Today the children of Abraham are still fighting, 2000 later.

Actually I suspect that the magi from the East were from Persia with an in depth knowledge of alchemy and astrology. The time and place of jesus arrival could be predicted by astrology and following the star was calculating the details. The gifts of the magi seem to sum up who Jesus was and his future.

  • Gold – a gift worthy of kings
  • Frankincense – used by the priests in worship
  • Myrrh – used to embalm the dead
Jesus was unique from above with a mission where frankincense becomes useful and destined to die for humanity where myrrh will be used.
 
I think it is possible. It is a very interesting thought. The fact is however that little is said about the wiseman. We don't even know the exact number. We usually say three just because there were three different gifts given but this does not mean that there were three wise man. We all have our opinions and speculations and I find this one interesting. It does make sense. But I don't know if there is enought evidence for me personally to form an opinion about this issue.
 
notice the 3 are said to be present just at the birth
I believe current consensus it not at birth but about 2 years after.
We have to ask the question, why Jesus, despite all the great revelations to people around him ended up being born in a manger under such unsanitary conditions for him and his mother.

Where were Zachariah, Elisabeth and even Joseph family ?
There was no such thing at the time of what we would call a 'sanitary birth' today. Bearing a child and giving birth was wherever, whenever, however. Odds are they wouldn't have been alone in the manger, many traveling folks would sleep with the animals (just like they would have at home) and if you were in the 'inn' it isn't the Ritz or even Motel 6, expect to be seperated male and female and four or more to a 'bed' in a room with double digit occupants, and don't forget the lice and bedbugs. Twas a different day and time.
We don't even know the exact number.
Exactly the number 3 is complete conjecture and passed on for ages as correct. Much as the misinterpration of the word which could mean young lady, or unwed, or of child bearing age but without child, which is referred to over and over as virgin.
 
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