Is Jesus Almighty God?

Marsh said:
In what way are they not equals, Mee? Words like "greater" are troublesome, because they can mean different things in different contexts-- particularly when the context has been translated into another language.

quote]



the Greek of Philippians 2:6, when read objectively, shows just the opposite, that Jesus did not think it was appropriate. to be equal with God



who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.

philippians2;6



and as Jesus himself said


YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. JOHN 14;28





yes as the first-born of creation BY GOD ,Jesus was the first thing to be created by Jehovah his father..

Jesus was the BEGINNINGof the creation by God . and as the bible informs us, everything else created after that was created THROUGH Jesus.


when Jesus was created he had a spirit body like his father JEHOVAH, he was in the form of Jehovah which was a spirit body to live in heaven .
but he was not equal to God because JEHOVAH IS THE MOST HIGH PSALM 83;18




He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; collsians 1;15
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mee said:
Marsh said:
YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. JOHN 14;28
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In terms of salvation, Jesus is our God, for God the Father has put his Son's name above all names and there is no other name by which we are saved. In terms of glory, Jesus is our God and He is glorified back to the Father from where he came, and He is going to come again with his angels in his Father's glory. God shares his glory with no one, yet the Father has glorified Him and Jesus sits on the throne in heaven glorified and worshiped, which is reconciled through Jesus being God. So the Word became human and lived here on earth among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the only Son of the Father. Jesus emptied himself, came into our time and place, became a living sacrifice for our sakes and it is for this reason he is lesser in position than the Father in heaven. Yet He was resurrected and exhalted back to the Father. There is no salvation but through Christ the Lord. "I, even I, am YHWH, And there is no saviour besides Me. It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses", declares YHWH, "And I am God." Jesus Christ is the saviour to the glory of the Father.
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mee said:
YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. JOHN 14;28

yes as the first-born of creation BY GOD ,Jesus was the first thing to be created by Jehovah his father..

Jesus was the BEGINNINGof the creation by God . and as the bible informs us, everything else created after that was created THROUGH Jesus.

when Jesus was created he had a spirit body like his father JEHOVAH, he was in the form of Jehovah which was a spirit body to live in heaven .

but he was not equal to God because JEHOVAH IS THE MOST HIGH PSALM 83;18
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And then we're back to the word greater again, and the question as to what it means to us versus what Jesus meant by it.

God is most high: I agree. However, Jesus did not say that he was the first creation, but that he was with the Father at the creation of all things-- and as someone who believes as strongly as you do in the written word of the Bible, Mee, I feel that you must acknowledge this fact. Interpret the words as meaning Jesus was the first thing created, and the Bible tends to back you up. Read the words objectively, and then it's not as clear.

How could Jesus be with the Father in the beginning, if the Father began by creating Jesus first? All things would therefore not have been created together with and through Jesus, yeah?

Consider this possibility: Jesus is known by many names, including "The Word Of God." The mouth speaks what's in the heart and in the mind; Jesus then becomes the mind and heart of God-- the embodiment of God's spirit, and God's thoughts. God's thoughts were with God in the beginning, and whatever God created would begin as a thought, and then be willed into creation. God didn't create his thoughts; they are just God's thoughts-- they just are. If Jesus is the embodiment of God's spirit-- God's thoughts-- then he is in his nature part of God himself, just as we become the body of Christ when we accept Jesus as our saviour, and become one with Christ as Christ is one with the Father.

It therefore makes sense that Jesus would accept worship.

It therefore makes sense that Jesus would be worthy to make a sacrifice for us all.

It therefore makes sense that Jesus is the only way to the Father.

It therefore makes sense that Jesus can forgive sins.

It therefore makes sense that Jesus could claim to speak for God.

It therefore makes sense that Jesus could be called God, because he is God in the sense that Mee is Mee's thoughts, and without thoughts Mee would cease to be. In this way, the Father is greater than the Son insofar as the Son (his thoughts) come from the Father (his self), but the relationship here is not the subordinate/superordinate relationship of human father and son, but rather the relationship between thought and being, and these two cannot be separated.
 
mee said:
YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. JOHN 14;28

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that rendition is kind of different but let's assist so others can see for themselves

john 14 is a neat chapt

has any read this before

15`If ye love me, my commands keep,


16and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age;
17the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it doth not behold him, nor know him, and ye know him, because he doth remain with you, and shall be in you.
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pretty good teaching from Jesus

how many see that?

then
24he who is not loving me, my words doth not keep; and the word that ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.
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probably a good idea to keep in tune with the above,

you know, per Jesus!
25`These things I have spoken to you, remaining with you,

26 and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you.

27`Peace I leave to you; my peace I give to you, not according as the world doth give do I give to you; let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be afraid;
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Jesus sharing the 'comforter' will teach you all things. And then to look up and below, it seems another person is what He means.

28ye heard that I said to you -- I go away, and I come unto you; if ye did love me, ye would have rejoiced that I said -- I go on to the Father, because my Father is greater than I.
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That's a clean '28' which shares possibilities.
29`And now I have said [it] to you before it come to pass, that when it may come to pass, ye may believe;

30 I will no more talk much with you, for the ruler of this world doth come, and in me he hath nothing;
31but that the world may know that I love the Father, and according as the Father gave me command so I do; arise, we may go hence.
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hmmmmm ..... seems Jesus may have been talking about the 'comforter/holy spirit' perhaps another teacher.... but the whole of the chapter seems to share:

follow the rules, (if you Love him (jesus)), God is the boss and another is coming to finish the job.........my opinion.
 
Bishadi said:
follow the rules, (if you Love him (jesus)), God is the boss and another is coming to finish the job.........my opinion.
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VERY TRUE LUKE 9;35:) Jehovah is the most high and he sent his only-begotten son John 3;16
 
Marsh said:
Interpret the words as meaning Jesus was the first thing created, and the Bible tends to back you up. quote]
Yes the bible is the aurthority ,


Since Jesus as the firstborn of all creation is a created person, he cannot be Almighty God.


The Scriptures repeatedly portray him as in a position subordinate to God.


For example, concerning the resurrected Jesus Christ, the apostle Paul wrote: "I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God." (1 Cor. 11:3, CB)


When giving the inspired "Revelation" to the apostle John, Jesus said concerning himself: "He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name." (Rev. 3:12, CB)

Did you note that four times in this verse alone Jesus refers to his Father, Jehovah, as "my God"?—Compare Philippians 2:5, 6, CB.



The Common Bible is approved by both Catholic and Protestant authorities.
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Marsh said:
However, Jesus did not say that he was the first creation, quote]


He didnt say that he was God either .





Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from "the beginning" must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. JOHN 1;1-2



This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," "the beginning of the creation by God." (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.
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That Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son and, hence, that this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus’ own statements.

He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, "I live because of the Father."

According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.
 
mee said:
VERY TRUE LUKE 9;35:) Jehovah is the most high and he sent his only-begotten son John 3;16
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are you saying, Adam cannot call God dad?

i call god pops too

it seems to appreciate god, any would treat him like 'the' father

And then to suggest Jesus is God's begotten, then Joseph's lineage to david is moot; meaning jesus could not fulfill the prophecies of being the messiah.

so which is it...... ? Is god who impregnated mary or joseph?

kind of a catch 22 that puts the mind of honesty right up front, eh?
 
mee said:
read the bible and you will know
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OK

and i guess i should put it on the thread so others can see for themselves.

then you can answer the question, based on the bible instead of just 'opinions'................

let's see how honest you are :p

Matthew 1


1 A roll of the birth of Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Abraham.
2Abraham begat Isaac, and Isaac begat Jacob, and Jacob begat Judah and his brethren,
3and Judah begat Pharez and Zarah of Tamar, and Pharez begat Hezron, and Hezron begat Ram,
4and Ram begat Amminadab, and Amminadab begat Nahshon, and Nahshon begat Salmon,
5and Salmon begat Boaz of Rahab, and Boaz begat Obed of Ruth, and Obed begat Jesse,
6and Jesse begat David the king. And David the king begat Solomon, of her [who had been] Uriah's,
7and Solomon begat Rehoboam, and Rehoboam begat Abijah, and Abijah begat Asa,
8and Asa begat Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat begat Joram, and Joram begat Uzziah,
9and Uzziah begat Jotham, and Jotham begat Ahaz, and Ahaz begat Hezekiah,
10and Hezekiah begat Manasseh, and Manasseh begat Amon, and Amon begat Josiah,
11and Josiah begat Jeconiah and his brethren, at the Babylonian removal.
12And after the Babylonian removal, Jeconiah begat Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begat Zerubbabel,
13and Zerubbabel begat Abiud, and Abiud begat Eliakim, and Eliakim begat Azor,
14and Azor begat Sadok, and Sadok begat Achim, and Achim begat Eliud,
15and Eliud begat Eleazar, and Eleazar begat Matthan, and Matthan begat Jacob,
16and Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was begotten Jesus, who is named Christ.
17All the generations, therefore, from Abraham unto David [are] fourteen generations, and from David unto the Babylonian removal fourteen generations, and from the Babylonian removal unto the Christ, fourteen generations. 18And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit,
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so in writting per the bible............

the whole lineage to david is shared

but the last line says, mary had already 'conceived' by ..... the per se 'spirit'............ as written

That means NONE of Joseph blood would be in Jesus' veins.

Now i ask, is Jesus from David's bloodline meeting the 'old prophecies' or NOT?
 
Peace--

I personally do not believe Jesus pbuh to be God (and I am not a Christian). Some of my personal reasons (please, I mean no offense here) are these:
a) Anything that can die cannot be divine, including humans. Someone dead cannot be divine because something dead ceases to be conscious. In order to be resurrected there must be an outside Force, alive and conscious to bring to life that which is dead.
b) Pagan beliefs usually include human/humanlike forms to be divine. Many pagan societies in the past have glorified human figures (i.e. Romans).
c) Since Jesus pbuh was preaching to Jews, and was sent to the House of Israel, I cannot imagine any Jewish person following him if he were to state of himself to be divine. If I were Jewish and living in Jesus' time, and hearing him state that he "was God", I probably would consider him demon possessed or a great blasphemer (no offense--just stating the fact that Jewish religious message that there must be no other gods besides G!d).
d) Jesus pbuh prayed to God. If he was God, why would he pray to himself? Does God even need anyone's support at all? He is All powerful, All Knowing, All Perfect and Forever.
e) Jesus is similar to Adam. Adam was created by God and God breathed life into Adam. Adam had no human parents. Jesus had one human parent. Adam is not considered divine by Christians, then why should Jesus be believed divine?
f) The story of Jesus' "divinity", as told by the (non)christian tradition, is way too similar to Mithra for me.

I do not mean offense to anyone on the Christian forum. I believe that you have the right to belive the way you do. I respect all Christians and your faith, but simply do not agree with it.
;) I hope all is cool. Peace to all.
 
Peace--

I just noticed that someone was questioning Jesus' pbuh liniege (spelling?) to David pbuh. Yes, indeed, the Holy Bible is clear that there is no bloodline from Joseph when it comes to Jesus. But, the Holy Qur'an speaks of Mary's bloodline which is connected to the bloodline of David. Some contraversy is raised about islamic teaching about this issue, but I think it actually clears up a lot of confusions about Jesus' heritage from David. I can look it up again and post it here if anyone is interested to learn more about this.
 
I`m gonna sneak this one through.

I think the whole way of the institutions addressing the lineage of prophets is meaningless and only could eventually lead to imperialism, racism and discrimination. Historic facts yes, maybe, but lets not go overboard.

Jesus is not about a royal family.

Especially in Christian countries as I don`t know the other Abrahamic communities, like it matters if Jesus had a kid or not or is related to any other Jewish person (sorry Mary). And a movie and book stirs the publics imagination like it concerns us if someone is related to Jesus... I don`t think it matters.

To me, such reactions towards the remaining materials(DNA) of Jesus, is display of plain immaturity of a religion which may change over time (maybe in about 300-500 years).

Peace.

TK
 
Is Jesus Almighty God?


the bible has the answer to that.

Clearly Jesus is not Almighty God


that is why Jesus spoke of his father as MY GOD

revelation chapter 3; verses 2, and 12

and 2 corinthians 1; 3-4 Informs us .



its good to stick to what the bible REALLY teaches.




Yes,Jesus has been GIVEN GREAT AURTHORITY daniel 7;13-14


And he is spoken of as a Mighty God , in isaiah 9 ;6-7 but he is not ALMIGHTY GOD the most high .


PSALM 83;18 informs us that JEHOVAH IS THE MOST HIGH , and JEHOVAH said to listen to JESUS in LUKE 9;35.


YES Jesus is Gods son
.
 
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