Is Catholicism Christianity?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by enlightenment, Feb 18, 2009.

?

Are RC's Christians?

  1. Yes

    91.7%
  2. No

    8.3%
  1. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    *Shrugs*

    I always assumed it was just another 'branch' of the generic Christianity religion.

    Seems some others think different.

    My mother is a RC, being of Maltese/Italian background, seems to think so.

    Imo, even as someone who isn't of any faith, I agree with her.

    Surely if you believe that CHRIST was the son of god, you are, by definition, a CHRISTian..? Thererfore, Catholics are Christian...


    Or have I missed something?
     
  2. Francis king

    Francis king New Member

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    yes, you've missed something... ugly fellow, wears a white hat... and a white dress...
     
  3. GlorytoGod

    GlorytoGod There is a River

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  4. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    Christian is its not entirely a religious term but a cultural identity.

    Anybody who says they are Christian is one, culturally speaking, since by saying you are Christian you alienate yourself from non-Christians and endear yourself to Christians. By saying you aren't Christian, you alienate yourself from Christians! The second you say you've decided not to be Christian anymore your job possibilities change, friends and even family situations change. I've seen situations where you're better off one way or the other. In most cases its more advantageous not to be called a Christian. The point is that Christian has become a powerful cultural label, so its not as if you can just walk in and out of it. It got that way because people wanted to ask 'Are you really a Christian? So, don't ask.
     
  5. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    David Duke?

    :confused:
     
  6. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

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    I think, to some extent (I'm reluctant to say it's black and white, having strong opinions can be scary) it's arrogant, insulting and offensive to say that anyone isn't a Christian just because they don't have the same views as you. Even people who call themselves Christians that I don't like and whom I would aggressively oppose I would still call "Christian" simply because they call themselves Christian. My principle is that if you're a keeper of the tradition of Christianity and tell people what you think Christianity means than you're Christian.

    To me the notion of being "Christian" is like being a "student," "candidate" or "patron." You don't own the tradition. You are one of many who associate themselves with the written tradition. You pursue an agenda of positive and constructive use of the first-century written tradition.

    To me it isn't a matter of conformity to a creed, dogma or ideology. It's a matter of contribution. It's a matter of devotion. If you're dedicating your life to discovering the meaning of the written tradition of Christianity, as well as what Christianity meant in social and political context, then you're Christian.

    Take, for example, dauer and bananabrain here, who according to my impression are adherents of Judaism. Dauer and bananabrain's beliefs about Judaism are totally different, but they aren't denouncing each other, saying, "you're not a Jew because you don't conform to the same ideology as I."

    If Jews with totally different ideologies can accept and not denounce each other, why not Christians? I suppose it has a lot to do with Judaism being a communal religion, but Christianity is also a communal religion, so why can't we apply the same principle?

    From my understanding of the New Testament and Christianity being a communal religion, community, in my view, is more important than conformity to any specific dogma or ideology. Sometimes I think the real "heretics" are the ones who want to divide the religious community. These "heretics" aren't there for fellowship. Rather, they are there for their own intellectual arrogance.

    Regardless of what Catholics believe or what the Roman Catholic Church teaches (and I disagree more with its leadership style, political structure and promotion of its own ideology than its actual dogma), I can't denounce them as "non-Christian," because just like me, they are keepers of the Christian written tradition.

    Heck, I might even go so far as to say that Mormons are "Christian" to some extent. What causes discomfort is that they include a written text that had been issued at least 1,500 years after the first century communal experience based on a communal experience that took place so long after. Mormonism isn't strictly based on the first-century Christian communal experience.

    My devotion and dedication as a keeper of Christian tradition is to the first-century communal experience, not something that happened at least 1,500 years after, which makes it a completely different tradition, as the reality of the experience is grounded in space and time in Israel and the rest of Europe in the first century A.D./C.E.
     
  7. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    Some Roman Catholics are Christians, some aren't. By the same token, some Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbeterians, Mormons, JWs are Christians, some are not.

    What is the definition of a Christian? One who is conformed into the image of Christ and follows His teachings. Some do, some don't.

    That's why I couldn't vote in this poll. No 'depends' selection.
     
  8. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    Okay.

    Imagine there was one.

    Some are?

    Some aren't?

    Which and why?
     
  9. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    Someone that believes that he is the son of god, rose after three days, and will return 'one day'..?

    One could model themselves on the principles of Jesus, without all the other baggage, actually....
     
  10. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    I try not to make judgements. That's for God to decide.

    However, in the very same chapter where it says 'judge not, lest ye be judged', the scriptures do say that we can know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:16-23)
     
  11. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    I agree. The principles Jesus taught constitute the kingdom of God.

    But breaking it down, let's look at it this way:

    1. "believes that he is the son of god" - which means Jesus came from God and has the power of God so that he...

    2. "rose after three days" - and if Jesus conquered death, this logically gives the Christian hope that he...

    3. "will return 'one day'" - and conquer death for us as well.
     
  12. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    Not a judgement.

    I was asking you to elaborate on what you had said previously.
     
  13. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    Yet one could still dismiss these things as nothing but stories, and still embrace the principle of love, tolerance, understanding, etc.

    They would be a good human being, and a credit to themselves and their family.

    That's important too, right?
     
  14. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

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    Im a believer in the fundamentals of Christianity and of course they are too. They believe everything that I believe.. they just have a hierarchy thats a bit strange to my personal belief with a few extra strange ideas than Im accustomed to.. After all.. Jesus is the only means of Salvation... and Catholics that accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior are in the same boat as me..

    the body of Christ is made up of different parts all are needed and there for a purpose and only God knows what those purposes are.

    As long as the salvation issue isnt muddied with.. I dont care who calls themselves a Christian.
     
  15. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    OK. So did I answer your question then?
     
  16. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    Yes, it's important to embrace all these noble principles. But if you are going to dismiss all these stories as fables, then I would question why you would want to be a Christian in the first place. The general view is that Christianity has a historic basis to it, the foundation being the hope of the Resurrection.

    If one does not believe in the historic Christian faith, then why not dabble in another religion? If Christianity wasn't true, then I might consider falling back on Judaism or perhaps Buddhism, which I have. They seem to embrace these principles as much as anyone else.

    The question is whether Catholics are Christians. From what I understand, the Catholics take a strong traditionally historic view. And they are doctrinally steeped in it. But knowledge or even ritual about a thing does not make you a Christian. It's whether or not you have genuine faith in God and trust Him for your life.

    It's good to be good. "To obey is better than sacrifice" the saying goes. But all too often, I think a preoccupation on the 'sacrifice' de-emphasizes the need to live decently and with love. If the attitude is: "I'll just live up like I want to and go to confession on Saturday night and/or Mass and I'll be good to go until next week" is a bit hypercritical and misses the point (this goes for anyone, not just Catholics, btw).
     
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Let it be clear that the Catholic Church does not regard other denominations as 'not Christian'.

    What we do hold is the Roman Catholic Church adheres to the Apostolic Testimony unconditionally, and in that profession of "the one true faith" we are in full communion with the "one, holy, catholic and apostolic church" founded on Peter and the Apostles and which continues to this day, through the Apostolic Succession, guaranteed by its Founder at its inception, and assured by the Grace of the inhering presence of the Holy Spirit in its members.

    Thomas
     
  18. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    I think you should care.

    If it is your religion, then it is crucial to ensure that people do not hijack it for ill ends. If you really believe in the methods of Jesus, you would want nothing to do with those who organised Jesus Camp, as one example.

    Moderate theists should be doing all that they can to weed out those who use the bible or koran as nothing but a hate tool, imo.
     
  19. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    God seems to have a thing about obedience. That is one thing that strikes me about the bible, esp the OT, he is painted as a rather demanding control freak
     
  20. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

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    I dont have a religion I have a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

    I identify God as God of ALL and He has ultimate control of everything including Pentecostals who are Christians... they just occupy a different body part than mine does in the body of Christ.
     

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