Is Catholicism Christianity?

Are RC's Christians?


  • Total voters
    12
gods/religion needs man to exist, as a concept.
Nonsense. You've got that the wrong way round.

Science needs man to exist, as a concept. But if the planet vanished tomorrow, the laws of physics would still exist.

Reality is what exists. If some part ceases to exist, it does not render the rest unreal.

Thomas
 
Briefly, how did the Catholic Church end up with a single head of heads (the pope)?
Because that's the way Jesus set it up.

The Church is founded on Peter, that is explicitly stated in Matthew 16:18. Then we have further supporting references in Luke, and John.

In Acts, it's is clear that Peter is the head of the Church — even Paul, who nevertheless argued with Peter when he thought Peter was giving out the wrong signals (Jewish Christians eating apart from Gentile Christians).

We also have material evidence that baptism by a disciple (including those 72 sent out before Christ's arrest) was not 'full', and that the full rite was tripartite (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and was performed by an Apostle — ideally Peter himself.

+++

The shift of the 'Centre' from Jerusalem to Rome is signified a number of ways, from the rending of the veil of the temple, to Paul's mission, and the greater mission of the Church.

Rome, as an 'apostolic see', was always accorded priority over the other sees, (Jerusalem, the fourth, having been destroyed in 70AD) and letters from the time, such as that of Clement of Rome to the church at Corinth, assumes a certain authority in spiritual direction.

Likewise the other churches appealed to Rome for a ruling when they could not resolve disputes internally.

In the Councils, the representatives from Rome were always given pride of place, and spoke first.

The practice was universal until schisms set in.

So he papacy and the priesthood is not an invention, but rather their absence in post-Reformation denominations (Some Oriental patriarchates refer to their head as 'pope, the Coptic Church, for example), speaks of later decisions to do other than Our Lord intended, just one example of how the assumption of Christianity might well be incomplete, if not entirely assumed.

Thomas
 
One could model themselves on the principles of Jesus, without all the other baggage, actually....
So then you'd need:

A: Someone to tell you what He was like, and
B: Ideally that would be written down.

Here, of course, we're just talking the principles of love, or technically the Two Commandments He spoke of, Love God, and Love thy neighbour.

If, however, He instituted certain rites and practices, such as baptism, or the eucharist, then you'd need someone initiated into the performance of those rites ... a priesthood, in fact.

Thomas
 
So then you'd need:

A: Someone to tell you what He was like, and
B: Ideally that would be written down.

Here, of course, we're just talking the principles of love, or technically the Two Commandments He spoke of, Love God, and Love thy neighbour.

If, however, He instituted certain rites and practices, such as baptism, or the eucharist, then you'd need someone initiated into the performance of those rites ... a priesthood, in fact.

Thomas

In bold.

Yup, that would do just fine.

Know one can know what he was really like for certain, so the concept of him would be fine enough.

:)
 
Know one can know what he was really like for certain, so the concept of him would be fine enough.

Actually that's your assumption becbause you don't know Him.

The Catholic Church has been custodian of Him for 2,000 years, and has been passing that message on ... and because of who He is, when the message is taken to heart, He comes with it.

Thomas
 
Your argument seems to assume that if you cease to exist, so does everything else?

Thomas

Not at all.

All other present life forms would go on, and v possibly be the better for our absence.

But I wasn't speaking of life forms.
 
And perhaps you don't know 'him' better than me, or anyone else on this board?
Well you'll never know, will you? But to assume that because you don't is evidence that no-one else does, is a gross assumption by any measure.

That's why I remain in the heart of the Tradition, wherein most of the evidence lies, not only written, but experiential, and cumulative. I have my own experience, and I have theirs which, by virtue of our common profession, is mine also.

What each one of us personally believes is fallible. That's why I don't rely on my own opinions as the last word on matters.

I am Catholic because I find their argument irrefutable, whereas most other argument I find flawed.

Thomas
 
Just visiting, but it seems that Thomas has made a personal choice based upon his being convinced by argument. I don't think that is arrogant. If he were to hand his brain to someone else, it would be slightly less arrogant perhaps.
 
I agree. The principles Jesus taught constitute the kingdom of God.

But breaking it down, let's look at it this way:

1. "believes that he is the son of god" - which means Jesus came from God and has the power of God so that he...

2. "rose after three days" - and if Jesus conquered death, this logically gives the Christian hope that he...

3. "will return 'one day'" - and conquer death for us as well.

Out of curiousity, how do you define "death?"
 
Physical death, to be sure. But spiritual death as in separation from God, also.

From this perspective is it safe to say that we are dead with the possibility of a resurrection? Can we also conquer death as a consequence of Jesus" efforts?
 
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