Is Catholicism Christianity?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by enlightenment, Feb 18, 2009.

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Are RC's Christians?

  1. Yes

    91.7%
  2. No

    8.3%
  1. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Nonsense. You've got that the wrong way round.

    Science needs man to exist, as a concept. But if the planet vanished tomorrow, the laws of physics would still exist.

    Reality is what exists. If some part ceases to exist, it does not render the rest unreal.

    Thomas
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Because that's the way Jesus set it up.

    The Church is founded on Peter, that is explicitly stated in Matthew 16:18. Then we have further supporting references in Luke, and John.

    In Acts, it's is clear that Peter is the head of the Church — even Paul, who nevertheless argued with Peter when he thought Peter was giving out the wrong signals (Jewish Christians eating apart from Gentile Christians).

    We also have material evidence that baptism by a disciple (including those 72 sent out before Christ's arrest) was not 'full', and that the full rite was tripartite (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and was performed by an Apostle — ideally Peter himself.

    +++

    The shift of the 'Centre' from Jerusalem to Rome is signified a number of ways, from the rending of the veil of the temple, to Paul's mission, and the greater mission of the Church.

    Rome, as an 'apostolic see', was always accorded priority over the other sees, (Jerusalem, the fourth, having been destroyed in 70AD) and letters from the time, such as that of Clement of Rome to the church at Corinth, assumes a certain authority in spiritual direction.

    Likewise the other churches appealed to Rome for a ruling when they could not resolve disputes internally.

    In the Councils, the representatives from Rome were always given pride of place, and spoke first.

    The practice was universal until schisms set in.

    So he papacy and the priesthood is not an invention, but rather their absence in post-Reformation denominations (Some Oriental patriarchates refer to their head as 'pope, the Coptic Church, for example), speaks of later decisions to do other than Our Lord intended, just one example of how the assumption of Christianity might well be incomplete, if not entirely assumed.

    Thomas
     
  3. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    How so?

    Let's say that you are a RC, right?

    Let's say that mankind is gone in a century.

    Who would continue the catholic church, and other religions?

    Ants?

    St ANThony - :D
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    So then you'd need:

    A: Someone to tell you what He was like, and
    B: Ideally that would be written down.

    Here, of course, we're just talking the principles of love, or technically the Two Commandments He spoke of, Love God, and Love thy neighbour.

    If, however, He instituted certain rites and practices, such as baptism, or the eucharist, then you'd need someone initiated into the performance of those rites ... a priesthood, in fact.

    Thomas
     
  5. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    In bold.

    Yup, that would do just fine.

    Know one can know what he was really like for certain, so the concept of him would be fine enough.

    :)
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Your argument seems to assume that if you cease to exist, so does everything else?

    Thomas
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually that's your assumption becbause you don't know Him.

    The Catholic Church has been custodian of Him for 2,000 years, and has been passing that message on ... and because of who He is, when the message is taken to heart, He comes with it.

    Thomas
     
  8. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    Not at all.

    All other present life forms would go on, and v possibly be the better for our absence.

    But I wasn't speaking of life forms.
     
  9. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    And perhaps you don't know 'him' better than me, or anyone else on this board?

    Just a thought.
     
  10. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well you'll never know, will you? But to assume that because you don't is evidence that no-one else does, is a gross assumption by any measure.

    That's why I remain in the heart of the Tradition, wherein most of the evidence lies, not only written, but experiential, and cumulative. I have my own experience, and I have theirs which, by virtue of our common profession, is mine also.

    What each one of us personally believes is fallible. That's why I don't rely on my own opinions as the last word on matters.

    I am Catholic because I find their argument irrefutable, whereas most other argument I find flawed.

    Thomas
     
  11. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    Doesn't that come over as a wee bit arrogant, Thomas?

    Even if not meant as such?
     
  12. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    Just visiting, but it seems that Thomas has made a personal choice based upon his being convinced by argument. I don't think that is arrogant. If he were to hand his brain to someone else, it would be slightly less arrogant perhaps.
     
  13. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    and ruby red slippers...
     
  14. Nick_A

    Nick_A Interfaith Forums

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    Out of curiousity, how do you define "death?"
     
  15. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    Physical death, to be sure. But spiritual death as in separation from God, also.
     
  16. Nick_A

    Nick_A Interfaith Forums

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    From this perspective is it safe to say that we are dead with the possibility of a resurrection? Can we also conquer death as a consequence of Jesus" efforts?
     

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