King Arthur

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by Ralf Biermann, Jun 3, 2004.

  1. Ralf Biermann

    Ralf Biermann beloved disciple

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    Although the story about King Arthur is a legend, it contains some elements of truth, especially of Christianity.
    Arthur was the only one who was able to pull the sword out of the rock. It is written: Jesus is the Word, the Truth, which is the sword that proceeds out of the mouth of God. God is Love, the Rock.

    So the sword in the rock means: True Love, which is the strongest force in the Universe.

    Ralf Biermann
     
  2. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    Just in case anyone hasn't noticed, there's a new King Arthur movie out this summer - expecting this time it takes the interpretation of Arthur being based at least in part upon the figure of Ambrosius, who was said to have tried to unfiy the Roman familaies that remained on British shores against the Saxon invasion - all taking place around the late fifth to early 6th century. At least - I presume that's what the film is going to cover in topic, seeing as the trailer is filled with Romans. :)
     
  3. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    Interesting I have never thought about the true legend of King Arthur before. Interesting analogy. So when does the movie come out exactly I would like to see that.

    Paul J.:D
     
  4. Abogado del Diablo

    Abogado del Diablo Ferally Decent

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    It's on video now (it came out last summer in the theaters). I'd save my money though. It's not worth it.
     
  5. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    really? I guess I need to start paying attention to the post dates. oh well.

    By the way isn't the sword named excaliber or something like that? I wonder if there is a seperate tale on how the sword was forged, now that would be interesting.

    I would also like to learn more about the holy grail. Many believe that is made of pure gold with rubees and diamonds and some faithful christians believe that was made by a carpenter for the last supper. All of this makes me think about Indiana Jones and the Last Crusaid. That was such a great movie! I don't really remember the legend, but did King Arthur ever find the holy grail. I wonder if its really out there somewhere:confused: . If it is I think that God wouldn't let anyone discover it. The legend of King Arthur is such a mystery, but yet it's also so intriguing and really lays out a path to discovery.

    Paul J.
     
  6. Abogado del Diablo

    Abogado del Diablo Ferally Decent

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    . . . and some believe the Grail is the offspring and blood descendants of Jesus, believe it or not.
     
  7. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    Wow! I never knew that before! Could you explain it in a little more detail though. That really hit me and I would like learn more. I may not log on until tomorrow though I have to go.

    Paul J.
     
  8. Abogado del Diablo

    Abogado del Diablo Ferally Decent

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    I don't buy it, and probably couldn't do it justice, but the gist of it is as follows: Supposedly "Holy Grail" is a anglicization of "sangreal" which should have been broken between the "g" and the "r" rather than the "n" and the "g." Thus "Holy Grail" or san graal is a code for "Holy Blood" or sang real. Get it? This tips off a conspiracy theory pulling in speculation and mythology regarding Mary Magdelene being the wife of Jesus and mother to his children fleeing Jerusalem after the crucifixtion to the shores of Marseilles, France. There, her offspring (the Holy Blood) is married into the line of ancient Frankish Kings known as the "Merovingians", the most famous and influential of whom was Dagobert II.

    The conpiracy theory continues with the speculation that the forged "Donation of Constantine" was creted by the Catholic Church to wrest political and spiritual authority away from the bloodline of Jesus under the authority of the Church and that a secret society (led by such luminaries as Da Vinci and Isaac Newton) has carefully guarded the mysterious grail bloodline for the last 1,000 years. Of course, it involves the Templars and Masons and peculiar events at a chapel in Rennes Les Chatteaux in Languedoc, France not far from where thousands of Cathars were murdered by the Albigensian Crusade . . . and on and on . . .

    The whole theory is set forth in detail in the best selling book from the early 80's "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" by Leigh, Baigent and Lincoln. The same idea is the center of the controversy over Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code."

    Does that clear things up any?:)
     
  9. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    For some reason Amazon pulled my rather critical review of that work...

    Any book that can claim a complete understanding of the New Testament by simply referencing two non-Biblical sources, and then write a clear and precisely detailed history of the European Dark Ages, despite an otherwise dearth of manuscripts on the political events described, killed my interest in the book. Probably good fiction, but masquerading as history it was something of a sensationalist travesty.
     
  10. Abogado del Diablo

    Abogado del Diablo Ferally Decent

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    Perhaps honesty isn't always conducive to commerce.
     
  11. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    Thank you, Abogado,

    I understand things much better now. I'll look for that book at Barnes and Noble (book store) and give it a good overview. Until then I guess I'm done with this forum here...so long and farewell (not really).

    Paul J.
     
  12. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    The new/old movie...what an eye opener!

    The King, was not a king. He was a knight, with some very special "knights around him. Half Britan, half Roman, torn between two loyalties. His "knights" were pagan in faith, yet loyal to him. He was Christian, yet conflicted with his people. Guinevere was a "pagan", and a warrior, and a princess...(wicked with the bow, and short sword). Merlin as usual was a shaman.

    The "stone" Arthur pulled the sword from was the head of his father's grave, while his mother burned to death in their home. "Cameolot" was a Roman garrison, behind a wall, 35 feet high, 24 feet thick and one mile long, called the "Great Wall". Lancelot was a true friend to "Arturious", but he had a cynical side to him, was deadly with two swords, and had no interest in Guinevere. His (platonical love) was for Arthur, and getting the hell off that damned island called Britan.

    Merlin was Arthur's perceived enemy, until such time as the good "shaman" pointed out that Arthur alone could make or break the Britons.

    I love the applied laws of physics in the movie. One "knight" knew the rythm of the step of the Saxon's march across the lake's ice seriously weakened said ice. So He uses his battle axe to start the "rapid decline" of the ice's integrity, by striking into the focal point.

    The battle of Seven Knights against the Saxons, strikes a good chord as well.

    The Knights did not win the battle...they lead and inspired it. The common folk finished the job.

    And heroes died, both noble and common.

    And the King who would be cried out against the God he called his own, against the deaths.

    And the fanatics in religious ways, were walled up behind stone...just where they should be. Any time religion becomes a barrier between a man and basic dignities...religion LOSES.

    Faith wins, eyes are opened, and change happens.

    I never saw "Arthur" quite the way I saw his story in this movie. I personally think, this is probably one of the most accurate stories of the man who would be King of Britan.

    There is a grave with the words "Here lies Arthur (King) of Britan, and his second wife, Guinevere". I read it somewhere, and I'll find it and post it here. Just give me a day or so...

    Oh, the grave is on a "hill" called Avalon, which used to be an island in a swamp, called the Isle of Avalon...and there is still the remains of an Abbey there (so I've read). If I am wrong, please let me know ASAP!

    v/r

    Q
     
  13. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    Hi - I'm new to this site and one of my passions is the study of ancient mythology and what I believe to be the inner meaning of the legends themselves. King Arthur and the search for the Holy Grail is one of my favorites. I'll share my perspective if anyone is interested. First I believe that the "ancient path of knowledge" is the connection between many different religions and world views but most of us have lost our ability to see the inner meanings. I also deeply believe that the inner meanings tell us about a process that leads to revelations and visions through deep meditation or prayer. The actual location of the "holy grail" is in our own brains .... it is the inner sanctum .... the holy of holies .... the altar ..... the bridal chamber ..... the cave ..... all different names for the same place. In the legends of King Arthur, the round table is a metaphor for the skull itself, and seen floating in the middle covered by a shroud is the holy grail .... the shroud is a net of fibers that covers the brain (it is located between the hard part of the skull and the soft part and is called the arachnoid, or the spider's net) .... in some parts of the legends 12 knights sit around the round table (this refers to the 12 pairs of cranial nerves that operate the inner system) .... and the references to the hill or mountain are references to the top of our head .... this is why it always takes three to go to the top of the mountain (references to the 3 hemispheres of the brain) .... just as only three knights are able to locate the holy grail .... in the legends of Arthur there is the island of Avalon .... he goes there by boat and it is covered in myst .... the myst must lift to be able to enter avalon (this is a reference to the lifting of the veil) .... the 12 pairs of cranial nerves operate an inner system that runs energy through seven energy centers of the body .... this is the reference to the seven caers or towers in many of the tales of Arthur ..... there is much much more, but it would take time and I only wanted to share the essence of my perspective on King Arthur. In other mythology the 12 are also the 12 gods of Mt. Olympus, the 12 gates to heaven, the 12 stones, the 12 sages .... everything can be seen in the numbers, the directions, and in the old languages in the "sounds" themselves. There are symbols within symbols and messages within messages .... I hope this discussion fits in with the interest of this site. he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
     
  14. Awaiting_the_fifth

    Awaiting_the_fifth Where is my mind?

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    That is an interesting theory, pohaikawahine, but do you really think that the writers of these stories, hundreds if not thousands of years ago, knew so much about human anatomy?

    I would have said that the number 12 itakes it's significance from the 12 apostles of Jesus and the 12 tribes of israel. This is a Christian story after all. The 3 knights going up the hill? not sure what that's about but there are not three hemispheres in the brain, there are only two. This still leaves the veil over the grail, but I just dont see that as being a veil of nerves.

    I do like the idea that the Holy Grail is actually the human mind, but I dont think that the story of King Arthur is metaphorical, I think it is literal, and although being embelished, I see it as being true. Let me explain.

    What is the story about?

    it is about a great king who united his home land into a single country, defeated the saxons and spread christianity from his big castle.

    Now if we accept that over hundreds of years the names may have become distorted, then who might we have to fill this role?

    How about Alfred the Great, one of England's greatest kings ever. A devout Christian. The first to unite all of the little, warring principalities that made up England at the time. Faught the saxons who invaded Northern England. Lived in a big castle at Coventry.

    The names: Arthur-Alfred. Camelot-Coventry. It seems plausible that the peasants who passed on the story may have confused the names a little bit in the hundreds of years since Alfred.

    So that's my theory. Dot definitive perhaps, but Im sticking to it.
     
  15. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    Hi "Awaiting the Fifth" (I love the name) .... there are many therories about whether King Arthur actually existed or not and as far as I know there has never been definitive proof (which is interesting for a King). Yes, I do believe that the "ancients" knew more about the human anatomy then we can believe but the answer lies in understanding our full potential as human beings which I think we have forgotten. The twelve does refer also to the Zodiac as well as the twelve tribes and to my mind the next question is what do the Zodiac and the twelve tribes have in common and what do they refer to. I posted a note on another thread of dialogue about the twelve tribes and feel that the reuniting of the twelve tribes relates to the same process. When I refer to the three hemispheres of the brain (the triune) I refer to the right and left hemispheres as well as what is known as "the reptilian brain" or the "brain stem" which is a very important part of the whole system because the energy must "passover" this area before entering the center of the brain. Thank you for sharing your perspective.


    Which brings me to your chosen name "awaiting the fifth" .... I don't know why you use this but it is an area that I have looked at in this long search of mine .... the concept of entering the fifth world. There are seven energy centers in the body (some religions and cultures assign a few more, but the concept is the same) and there are four below the neck and three above .... this is related to the sacred numbers of 3+4 (the perfect balance, the female and male energies with 4 being female and of the earth, and 3 male and of the heavens) or the marriage of heaven and earth (when our head is reconnected to our body systems) .... so in order to cross over or pass over from the fourth world (below the level of the neck) one must cross over the river (imagine the human body with arms stretched out to the sides .... this is the human cross and this is the river) .... the concept of ascending to the fifth world is related to moving that spiralling energy up and spinal column into the brain and reconnecting the three (to become whole brain thinkers again) .... when we as human beings are able to do this we will move to the fifth level and begin a new golden age of living in balance and peace .... at least that is the concept, not so easy to do because so much energy is stuck at the fourth world level and we keep looking outside for the answers .... when the answer lies within each of us. We can cross over only one by one and everyone is a chosen one when we rediscover this path. At least that is my perspective. You can probably see that I do not belive there are only 144,000 "chosen ones", but we are all "chosen ones" .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
     
  16. Awaiting_the_fifth

    Awaiting_the_fifth Where is my mind?

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    Is this information taken from any particular religion or tradition? or is this simply your personal belief?

    I must say, I have never paid much attention to the "Ancient Lore and Mythology" section, but i am starting to regret it, this is fascinating stuff.

    My own name actually refers to the manifestation of the fifth buddha, Maitreya, who is to be expected in about another 2400 years.

    Your description of ascending to the 5th level is very similar to the Buddhist concept of enlightenment, except that Buddhism is concerned less with the actual anatomy of the process. I would love to discuss this further with you. Perhaps you could start a new thread in the Comparative Studies section outlining your beliefs and we could go from there? (we dont want to hijack this thread)
     
  17. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Greetings pohaikawahine,

    I too find the stories of Arthur to be fascinating, and have done some research into the lore and "facts" before.

    I would like to present some information and a link on further commentary pertaining to Arthur.

    "In our own lifetime Arthur's body was discovered at Glastonbury, although the legends had always encouraged us to believe that there was something otherworldly about his ending, that he had resisted death and had been spirited away to some far-distant spot. The body was hidden deep in the earth in a hollowed-out oak bole and between two stone pyramids which had been set up long ago in the churchyard there. They carried it into the church with every mark of honour and buried it decently there in a marble tomb. It had been provided with most unusual indications which were, indeed, little short of miraculous, for beneath it, and not on top, as would be the custom nowadays, there was a stone slab, with a leaden cross attached to its under side. I have seen this cross myself and I have traced the lettering which was cut into it on the side turned towards the stone, instead of being on the outer side and immediately visible.

    The inscription read as follows:

    HERE IN THE ISLE OF AVALON LIES BURIED THE RENOWNED KING ARTHUR, WITH GUINEVERE, HIS SECOND WIFE
    There are many remarkable deductions to be made from this discovery. Arthur obviously had two wives, and the second one was buried with him. Her bones were found with those of her husband, but they were separate from his. Two thirds of the coffin, the part towards the top end, held the husband's bones, and the other section, at his feet, contained those of his wife. A tress of woman's hair, blond, and still fresh and bright in colour, was found in the coffin. One of the monks snatched it up and it immediately disintegrated into dust.

    There had been some indications in the Abbey records that the body would be discovered on this spot, and another clue was provided by lettering carved on the pyramids, but this had been almost completely erased by the passage of the years. The holy monks and other religious had seen visions and revelations. However, it was Henry II, King of England, who had told the monks that, according to a story which he had heard from some old British soothsayer, they would find Arthur's body buried at least sixteen feet in the ground, not in a stone coffin but in a hollowed-out oak bole. It had been sunk as deep as that, and carefully concealed, so that it could never be discovered by the Saxons, whom Arthur had attacked relentlessly as long as he lived and whom, indeed, he had almost wiped out, but who occupied the island [of Britain] after his death.

    That was why the inscription, which was eventually to reveal the truth, had been cut into the inside of the cross and turned inwards towards the stone. For many a long year this inscription was to keep the secret of what the coffin contained, but eventually, when time and circumstance were both opportune the lettering revealed what it had so long concealed.

    What is now known as Glastonbury used, in ancient times, to he called the Isle of Avalon. It is virtually an island, for it is completely surrounded by marshlands. In Welsh it is called 'Ynys Avallon', which means the Island of Apples and this fruit used to grow there in great abundance. After the Battle of Camlann, a noblewoman called Morgan, who was the ruler and patroness of these parts as well as being a close blood-relation of King Arthur, carried him off to the island, now known as Glastonbury, so that his wounds could be cared for. Years ago the district had also been called 'Ynys Gutrin' in Welsh, that is the Island of Glass, and from these words the invading Saxons later coined the place-name 'Glastingebury.' The word 'glass' in their language means 'vitrum' in Latin, and bury' means 'castrum' or 'civitas'.

    You must know that the bones of Arthur's body which were discovered there were so big that, in them, the poet's words seem to be fulfilled:

    All men will exclaim at the size of the bones they've exhumed[size=-2] (Virgil, "Georgics," I.497)[/size]
    The Abbot showed me one of the shin-bones. He held it upright on the ground against the foot of the tallest man he could find, and it now stretched a good three inches above the man's knee. The skull was so large and capacious that it seemed a veritable prodigy of nature, for the space between the eyebrows and the eye-sockets was as broad as the palm of a man's hand. Ten or more wounds could clearly be seen, but they had all mended except one. This was larger than the others and it had made an immense gash. Apparently it was this wound which had caused Arthur's death."

    by Gerald of Wales (Giraldus Cambrensis, as he is sometimes known). As a churchman and considered reliable historian of the 12th and 13th centuries AD, he wrote two accounts of an exhumation he had witnessed.

    Here is a link that might present food for thought: http://www.britannia.com/history/docs/debarri.html

    v/r

    Q
     
  18. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    It's hard to know where to start. These thoughts (including the name reference to the fifth level) comes from about 40 years of studying ancient traditions and religions. Just a passion of mine, no other reasons. That is why there is so much weaving of different thoughts. I see symbols and follow their connections intuitively. I don't know any other way to explain it. The essence of what I believe is that all paths lead to the same mountaintop and the deepest or sacred meanings in most great books as well as legends tells us about the process to enlightnment. We have misinterpreted most of them and people look outside of themselves for power, we gave away our own freedom and sovereighty when we fell into what I refer to as "the great sleep" .... when we remember who we were, we will know who we are and we will remake our world because we will simply change our minds. I see seeds of truth in all religions but it is not necessarily the same view as held by those that practice these religions. The same truths are present in many ancient cultures and traditions that are not connected with religion at all. I am kanaka maoli, native hawaiian, and even our own rituals are greatly misunderstood, in my view, by our own people. Understanding the brain itself, the energy centers in the body (operated by the 12 pairs of cranial nerves) and the path of this energy (which moves up and down the spinal column) is one of the keys to opening the doors. I'd be happy to share my views and to hear from others.... perhaps I can start with something I'm working on right now related to the concept of the lightening bolt and the twin towers or twin pillars. I'll start a new thread as you suggested and we can see where it goes. It is rather eclectic (encompassing all) so I suspect a new thread would be important. I'm posting all over this site and beginning to lose track of what and where I posted (lol) .... me ke aloha pumehana, pohaikawahine
     
  19. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    also wanted to add a thought on the last posting about King Arthur .... there is also a meaning behind having the Abbey of Glastonbury and the mystical Isle of Avalon positions in the same place .... the two exist side by side within each other .... one is the material world and the other is the inner world .... the so-called "shape shifters" are able to cross between the worlds. Guinevere represents the physical world and Morgan le Fay represents the inner world .... Morgan le Fay is a shape shifter .... in fact if you look at the definition of a Morgan le Fey, it is also known as a "mirage". All of these are symbols and beautiful ones at that. There are many burial places for Arthur and Guinevere, including one on a "mound" that you must walk a labyrinth to access the top .... it takes "seven" times to complete the labyrinth. Everything is in the symbols and the numbers. He hawai'i au, fay (aka pohaikawahine) .... pohaikawahine is my hawaiian name, its literal meaning is "a circle of women" and is related to what is known as the 12 birdwomen of the island of Molokai .... you will not find information on the 12 birdwomen, it is generally not known.... the name was given to me by a circle of my "aunties" .... I have other given names but this is the one I use for posting.
     
  20. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    No worries sir, I was merely adding my two cents, not trying to take away your two bits...be at ease my friend. ;)


    v/r

    Q
     

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