Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by juantoo3, Jun 9, 2004.
The Clydesdale Institute.
Pyramids: The Giza Power Plant - Google Video
this chap has some good ideas on how remarkable the pyramids are. i use a scaled down version of cheops to sharpen my razor blades - get 6 months out of each blade, got no skin left but hey bare red flesh suits me....j
< don't you think?
Don't know much about this but I do remember seeing a documentry on TV (I think it was presented by Graham Handcock) were he showed that the Sphyinx definatly predates the pyraminds by a good long time- it shows distinct signs of water erosion so must have been built at a time when Giza was above water but was later submerged and then dry again. I'm aware of the distinct lack of evidence for 'pyramids as tombs' and the 'orions belt' theory. It's an interesting subject but...
I'm brand new to this site and new to html code also. This site is a bit difficult for me to navigate. Hope I don't break any rules.
I was just wondering about the references to Orions belt. Please correct me if I am wrong. I was under the impression that Orion was from a mediterranean mythology or belief system. Did the Egyptians of this period know of Orion and would they even have revered him if so? I thought they had their own gods.
Or maybe I really need an history and georgraphy lesson.
I'm not particularly familiar with Egyptology or the pyramids, so I can't say either way, really. However, as concerns Hawass' reluctancy to accept a date as old as 12,000 BC for the construction of the pyramids, I think it should be mentioned that there is one MAJOR reason for this aside from the possibility that he is too 'set in his knowledge'.
In my understanding, moving the date of pyramid construction for Giza to anywhere between 10 and 40 thousand years ago causes a massive number of problems in our current historical model...many more than it would solve. Granted, the pyramids exact age may never be discovered, but a pretty reasonable timeframe for their construction can be established by taking into account other well-documented pieces of evidence that can be successfully associated with their construction.
In other words, if the date for the construction of the pyramids was moved to an earlier time (your most conservative offering places their construction around 10,000 BC rather than 3,000 BC) much of our knowledge of ancient Egypt which makes perfect sense in our current understanding and can reasonably be verified as true would suddenly lose most if not all of its coherence.
The question here is not so much one of whether or not flawed knowledge is being upheld in the face of negating facts, but rather whether or not the timeline of an entire civilization, which mostly fits together without a problem in its current configuration, should be completely altered to accomodate estimates of pyramid age which are, at least for now, supported by less evidence than currently held figures.
I have a question that I hope doesn't sound too out of place here (or too silly, for that matter). In reading jiii's post, I was reminded of a program I saw where the idea of a different date for the Exodus was being discussed. I am not always too good at remembering names, so I can't say at the moment who was leading this study. But it was intriguing to me, and I wonder if it is connected in any way to what you are looking at here? I just remember that the problem in accepting the theory was that it would necessarily "mess up" what we already think about history, which would be mind-boggling. Like tipping over one domino....
(By the way, if this has already been addressed on the thread, I apologize. I'm being lazy.)
Also, by the way, nice to see you around more, jiii.
Yes, understood ... and I agree, things are not at all what they seem. We have constructed our current picture of world history over hundreds, even thousands of years, and it is quite biased, quite wrong. We all know that history is written by the conquerors, and there is much at stake which prevents the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, from being told.
I think that the change in status quo will only come about very gradually, as an increasing number of investigators add to their knowledge the researches, findings and even speculations of yet other investigators ... all the while blending the discoveries with (and eventually verifying them against) occult knowledge.
I went thumbing through some texts, seeking to find a date or two, and that was 2 hours ago. I get so lost in my library sometimes!
But I do recall offhand that Atlantis is supposed to have had its heyday about a million years ago. Major catastrophes occurred ~800K years ago, ~200K years ago, ~75,000 years ago, and finally in 9564BC precisely. The final date is for the sinking of Poseidonis, which was but an island remnant from the previous catastrophe affecting the remnant islands of Ruta and Daitya.
If occult records are correct, then migrations to Egypt would have occurred prior to the penultimate catastrophe, and various references in The Secret Doctrine (H.P. Blavatsky) do seem to hover around the ~75,000BC period. However, I'm wondering what role the early Aryans might have had in contributing to the Wisdom or Mystery Teachings of the earliest Egyptian Dynasties. It's been awhile since I read about such things ...
The theory, as yet unverified by mainstream Egyptologists, is that Atlantis reached its height, the people became decadent, and black magic & sorcery grew into popularity ... such that the Wisdom Religion was no longer practiced, or valued, by the priesthood. The cult of the lower self, and the exaltation of the lower, personality nature forced those who were still faithful to Earth's Spiritual Brotherhood to go underground, and eventually a true Exodus was necessary.
I seem to recall Theosophical teachings referring to one of the Atlantean sub-races as the `original Semites,' but I'd have to look this up for more details. The Secret Doctrine discusses in much, much detail how Humanity's history actually progressed - even from times long prior to Atlantis, but certainly including the migrations to early Egypt. I'm just not sure how precise the dates are for the Pyramids' and Sphinx's construction.
But you see, in the Wisdom Religion, there is no hidden agenda, and no status quo to be maintained in the Occult telling of the tale. There are no egos to either bruise or puff up, and the only thing that is being communicated is Truth. Elsewhere there is a constant battle of words, ideas, theories and "facts," whether we are dealing with competing religions, based on ethnic chronologies ... or modern science, which is far less exact than she makes herself out to be (and where there is little but egos to bruise and puff up).
Claire, for your question I would refer you to the following website, from which I will quote only the first paragraph:The god Sah and his consort, Sopdet (Spdt, Sepedet), who is probably better known by her Greek name, Sothis, personified the constellation of Orion (which he is sometimes referred to) and the bright, first magnitude star Sirius (the "dog star") respectively. Orion was, to the ancient Egyptians, the most distinctive of all the constellations in the night sky, and it rose directly before the adjacent star Sirius, thus explaining the connection between these two ancient gods from a very early date. Orion was imagined as being swallowed at dawn by the Underworld but had the power to emerge again into the night sky. Their son was Soped (Sopdu, Horus Spd), who was another astral deity. They came to be viewed as manifestations of Osiris and Isis.So you see, it's not just that the Egyptians knew (of) Orion ... to them, there WAS NO greater, or more important constellation!
One more quote from the above website:in [these] early texts [where] the king is told, "You shall reach the sky as Orion, your soul shall be as effective as Sothis". During the New Kingdom, Funerary texts explains that Orion is said to row towards the stars in a boat ...It really should be emphasized, btw, that for the Egyptians, as also for the Greeks, Romans, Chaldeans, Persians and so forth, there were not simply `Gods and Goddesses' instead of, for example, the monotheistic idea of one ultimate God. This is a misconception. The same mistake is often encountered by people in the West who imagine that Hindus literally worship hundreds, or even thousands, of - again, Gods and Goddesses.
That said, you will find plenty of Hindus who will readily tell you that in truth, there is actually only one great God, Brahman, possibly manifesting as Siva, Vishnu and Brahma, yet they will also find no problem whatsoever in worshipping or honoring one expression, or arrangement, of the countless manifestations of Brahman (or of Siva, Vishnu and Brahma).
What would be a more accurate picture, imho? Simply this: There is but one `God,' whatever we might like to call this Being. Humanity is created in `God's image,' and this refers to our design in the most abstract sense, in terms of spiritual principles. As the Hermetic Axiom puts it, `As above, so below.'
Therefore, mankind's entire nature - spiritual, psychic-psychological, and material - is actually but the reflection, or `image,' of that of the Divine. If we would know God, we must fully know and understand ourselves, and vice versa.
What, then, about all these Gods and Goddesses? I mean, come on, after all, isn't that the whole point of monotheism, is to get rid of all this endless confusion ... including the extreme of animism which suggests a kind of separate, individual spirit-being that animates every distinct body/item/entity in the universe!?!
No no no ... and although this gets slightly off the topic of the Giza Pyramids and their possible great antiquity ... in a way, it's actually quite related.
The ancients saw that just as our own material, psychic, and spiritual nature(s) are composed of numerous organs, systems, principles and aspects, so likewise the material, psychic, and spiritual nature of planets, stars, and even the entire Milky Way or Heavens. Our own Solar System, for example, was understood, studied and charted by the ancients long before the advent of the telescope ... and Seven Elohim, Prajapatis, Planetary Spirits, or Heavenly "Men" were recognized.
If these were (and are still, by Occultists) regarded as being like us, essentially - just very, very much more evolved, or advanced - than is it any wonder that the Ancients (and even today's esotericists) called them `Gods?' And if an entire Solar System (of which ours is really a TINY little example) is also the outermost expression of one, vast being ... then where does that leave (Earth's) Humanity, in the greater scheme of things? Where does it leave our pet cat, or the entire mineral kingdom in nature (even crystals grow)?
Sometimes, it was not even necessarily an individual being (of any scale) which the ancients were referring to - as a God or Goddess - but rather a particular function, or process in nature ... which they understood (in a Wisdom that is largely forgotten today) in a spiritual, rather than a material context. We usually tend to see the material world as inert, and matter as fundamentally inanimate. Yet each year the cutting edge of even the concrete sciences are leading us to a new appreciation of the world in which we live.
As the Old Testament Wisdom tells us, "In Him we live, and move, and have our being." I think most of us would rather try and imagine this in some platitudinous sense, or find some hidden inspiration in it ... when in fact, the ground upon which you stand, the computer screen in front of you, the eyes that pick up the photons, and every single atom in Cosmos - is a part of this "Him" (macrocosmically speaking).
So in that context, what's a Sirius, or a Sothis, even an Orion, either for the ancient Egyptians, or for us? What are we to (begin to) make of all this, if we try and unravel the mystery, which Alexander Pope expressed in these words:All are but parts of one stupendous whole,
Whose body Nature is, and God the soul. cheers,
That was so much more informative than I expected. Thank you very much. I had no idea. I also very much appreciate the links you provided. Really, I can't believe you went to so much trouble to explain all of that to me. Thank you!
You're certainly welcome!
Yeah, I get a bit long-winded sometimes, then I wonder if I've really said what I was trying to say. Or - have you ever felt like you understood something, but then as you tried to explain it (aha! the litmus test) to someone else ... you found that maybe you weren't so sure after all? lol
Well, the 2nd half of my post was very much like that. I owe so much to my studies of Theosophical teachings, and also to the contributions of esotericists from the past 75-100 years. By no means can the majority of these individuals (and groups of individuals) recall previous lives, but I have read about a half dozen or so extremely detailed & vivid accounts (where recall was aided by a Teacher) ... and this is part of what informs my understanding of - how the ancients viewed things like Deity/Divinity, Gods & Goddessess, etc.
Then there is my own partial recall of previous lives since ~1350BC (Egyptian, Greek, Galilean, Persian, French, and a couple of American) ... and things I have studied in conventional anthropology, archaeology, philosophy, history, etc. Put it all together, and I have an understanding that is - part conviction, part speculation or educated guess, and a great deal in between (or, analogical necessity).
For the record though, even though I cannot say I remember much in detail from say, a Greek life, about the time of Pythagoras ... nevertheless, knowing that there was such, and having the living thread of this prior experience weaving itself through my present consciousness, is a testament, or testimony, even in its own right! I can't quite find the words for it, but in terms of ancient Egypt, I'm convinced that I was there (most of us were!), and that even then, we knew that the Pyramids were Ancient.
As for whether or not ET helped Atlantean Humanity lift the stones into place ( ), I have no memory or indication of that! lol
Seriously though, the point blank, straightforward statements which I have come across time & time again, is that various of the cities - both Atlantean and post-Atlantean (such as the earliest Egyptian), and monuments/Temples such as the Great Pyramid & Sphinx - were sort of projects, or contributions, of Humanity's earlier Adepts, or Initiate-Kings. These served many purposes, but least of all (or NOT EVEN an aspect, rather), would be anything having to do with the ego, or earthly personality of the king in question.
And of course, this is precisely the opposite of what the best Egyptologists have managed to dream up, whether regarding the pyramids as tombs (once again, this is quite a reverse of their function!) ... or imagining that architectural renewals and revisions in the religious philosophy & priestly hierarchy (as in Akhenaton's time) were instigated for the Pharaoh's own earthly posterity.
The experts are quite on the right track when they can at least acknowledge that the Egyptians were looking well ahead, such as in terms of the afterlife. And yet unfortunately, it is true that the glory of most ancient Egypt declined, over tens of thousands of years (much like Atlantis, but on a smaller scale) ... such that what conventional Egyptologists regard as earliest Egypt was really just the lull, in between perhaps the 2nd GREAT Dynasty - and that final, 3rd series of lesser dynasties, which we record as 1st - 31st Dynasties.
Egypt interests me tremendously, for personal reasons among others. But as far as how various other ancient cultures regarded the spiritual principles in nature and in man, I think we should always seek to approach the subject with an open & a curious mind, and an eager curiosity. We should read the theories of today's experts with attentiveness, but we should pay equal respect to the accounts of eyewitnesses - and these, if at all possible, from within the culture, religious sect, or social group under consideration, rather than just "great and learned historians," who have tended (as often as not) to misunderstand & misinterpret what they witnessed!
No, I wouldn't advise or recommend past-life regression, even if we do believe in reincarnation. It's not where my own memories & insights came from, and it's not always as helpful as people seem to believe. Instead, I think it's much more worth considering what has been said a thousand different ways by that many & more who have come to this insight on their own: History records all that occurs, both in the visible and invisible worlds, and preserves it there, inviolable and intact, for all future generations.
We may not, as yet, have an accurate outer technology that can read these records, and thus we have countless psychics who claim to have "accessed the akashic records," and pretty soon aliens built the Great Pyramid, and they created Jesus, too, and God knows what else!
Sure there's an Akashic Record; we even see this Biblically as "the Book of God's Remembrance" (Malachi 3:16). In Sanskrit the word `lipika' refers to those four, specific entities - or planetary representatives of these greater, Solar Entities - whose function is to etch, or record, all that transpires on Planet Earth ... thereby serving as the active agents of God's Memory, as it were, for all of Humanity.
An excerpt from the online Theosophical Glossary:The lipikas correspond to the Egyptian forty Assessors of Amenti, to the four Recording Angels of the Qabbalah, the Hindu four Maharajas and chitra-gupta, the Christian seven Angels of the Presence, and to the Book of Life of Revelations. They are directly connected with karma, with the Day of Judgment, or the Day-Be-With-Us, when everything becomes one, all individualities becoming one, yet each knowing itself. (underlining mine, to show parallels between four different religious traditions)Who built the Pyramids, Why, and When? We may not know ... for many more decades, or centuries. But one thing (for me, at least) is certain. The Record of the epic event - as all others - is permanently and unalterably preserved ... and one day, it shall be verifiable and disclosed.
Wouldn't it be - my goodness - something like one of the greatest gifts imaginable ... to have access to the true Akashic Light, or Library (not in the astral plane, but far, far past that, spiritually)? I know a good number of people who, after thumbing through records on say, the Great Pyramid and Sphinx, would fast be turning the pages forward, maybe to ~2000 years ago, and "checking," just to be sure.
Again, the details escape me, but as for broad outlines and brushstrokes, I haven't a shadow of a doubt as to what they would surprisingly find. And until we have each developed the higher Siddhi (Spiritual power, vs. psychic gift) of accessing this Akashic Library, who's to say?
Well, there are those who have already seen a number of its "pages," and thus we have the basis for quite a few of the world's Sacred Scriptures. And do we not know well, that even to read the accounts of those who have `seen clearly' - takes a certain kind of gift, an open approach and preparedness, even a good measure of courage, and willingness to suspend what we have (for various reasons) always cherished as unquestionable truth?
Easier to see the expected, and familiar, and drive ourselves around in circles, for even if the spiral widens only slightly, we do not deviate too greatly from the familiar, and comfortable, and convenient. There is nothing basically wrong with this approach, in the last analysis, for as long as the spiral does widen, if only according to the behests of nature - and the path of least resistance (or slowest growth) - at least we will be making some progress!
I just find myself asking - Can we really afford, any longer, to cling so tenaciously to the comfortable & convenient, or does the Truth not insist - gently but firmly - that we shake loose of our malaise, and assess our situation (individually, and collectively) more realistically!
Pontius Pilate had a ready response to this question, and the personality nature (as opposing the Soul, or spiritual nature) will do anything it can to dodge the proverbial bullet ... yet whether we are decidely agnostic, a self-proclaimed Seeker, or a spiritual aspirant, whatever outward religious path we have chosen, at least all of these are better than the extremes of materialism (which proudly shuts the door on all possible spiritual revelation), and the smugness of religious & moral self-righteousness & self-certainty (which does the same).
I have found myself dangerously close to either of these extremes at times, so I have to just kind of sit back, re-center, and remember the values (and spiritual principles) which underlie all that is, and all that we are and can be. One can still believe in these, and live one's life accordingly, whatever the outer trappings, and regardless of the other details as to one's walk in life. Thank God for that!
Peace ... Namaskara,
When they say 'Orions belt' they are refering to the common modern name for the consatlation rather than what the Egyptians called it- so that modern readers with little or no knowledge of Ancient Egypt (like myself) don't get confused.
Just some random facts I thought pertinent and helpful to this discussion:
-Agatharchides of Cridus revealed the base of the pyramid is a known percentage of the Earths circumference
-It would take twenty seven years to cut and deliver (with modern technology mind you) 2.5 million blocks weighing between 6 and 30 tons .
-To move said blocks up the Pyramids 52(51?) degree slope , a modern builder would need a crane more than 500 feet high with a boom of 400 feet. (no crane like this exists today).
-According to Herodotus , the pyramids took 20 years to build, this would mean placing 340 blocks in position every day, if only 34 blocks were positioned everyday it would take 200 years.
-The blocks of the Pyramid are cut to 0.01 tolerance (tolerance is a measure of accuracy) modern day quarries use about a quarter-inch tolerance!
-FROM The Mystery of the Sphynx:
Subsequent experiments conducted by Tom Danley in the King's Chamber of the Great Pyramid and in chambers above the King's Chamber suggest that the pyramid was constructed with a sonic purpose. Danley identifies four resident frequencies , or notes, that are enhanced by the structure of the pyramid, and by the materials used in it's construction. The notes from an F sharp chord...according to ancient Egyptian texts were the harmonic of our planet. Moreover , Danley's tests show that these frequencies are present in the King's Chamber even WHEN NO SOUNDS are being produced. They are there in frequencies that range from 16Hertz down to 0.5Hertz well below the range of human hearing. According to Danley these vibrations are cause by wind blowing across the ends of the so called shafts in the same way sounds are created when one blows across the neck of a bottle.
So much interest is put into these massive structures, but one should note that the stones used in construction of the Trilithon at Balbek, Lebanon weigh about 1,000 tons apiece. The stones beneath the Trilithon weigh about 450 tonnes. ( this site is claimed to have been built by romans or added onto by romans, but According to the local peoples mythology ," Balbeks first city was built before the Great Flood by Cain , the son of Adam , The citadel at Balbek they claim fell into ruins at the time of the deluge and was much later re-built by a race of giants"- www.newdawnmagazine.com.au/Resources/arts/43c.html
Comment , disect, investigate. Truly mysteries worth examination.
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