The Coming "Iranian Crises" and the next 100 years

c0de

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Within the next 5 years there will be a crucial moment which will define the next century. The (former) head of the Mossad said that the coming Iranian Crises is just a precursor: the real problem is what will happen after. One reason for this is that a strike on Iranian targets will only set them back a couple of years (maybe a decade). But this was not why this person made this comment. The real problems actually start at this stage because this action will violently reconstruct, not just this particular region, but also affect the global structure of alliances and may lead to future regional conflicts outside the Middle East.

There are 4 possibilities:


  1. De-escalation
  2. Escalation: Strike on Iran includes Israel
  3. Escalation: Strike on Iran does NOT include Israel
  4. Iran goes nuclear

Scenario #1: will also redefine the region but in a very positive way. A Two-State solution will also be revived because of a non-violent resolution on the Iranian front. Setting the stage for an integration of Israel with its Arab neighbors, fostering the re-emergence of a "Mediterranean Identity" after thousands of years.

Scenario #2: If a strike on Iran includes Israel, then hell breaks loose. This is the worst case scenario (for us, because all conflicts will then happen in our lifetimes). It will destroy all links the Arab world has with the West as their populations will immediately recognize the Iranians as "brothers" and unite against a perceived common threat. This will prompt Russia and China to take action immediately as well. So far, it seems that the US is holding back Israel. The key event was when they denied the sale of Air-Refuelers to the IAF. The IAF is currently not able to reach Iran with the ability to refuel their jets, as Turkey has denied the IAF to use its bases for any such attack.

Scenario #3: This is the most likely outcome. A limited coalition attack (or a solo effort by the US) within the next 5 years on Iranian nuclear facilities. This thread was mainly created to address the outcome of this scenario. This will preserve the Arab coalition, who are for now united against Iran. It will set the Iranian nuclear program back a decade (maybe) but it will almost ensure their continued efforts, possibly even causing a bump in their determination. The immediate fallout will be limited disruption of the commercial traffic through the Straits of Hormuz. Maybe a few ballistic strikes on Israel. But for the most part, Iranian conventional capabilities do not pose any direct threat to NATO. However, the "blow back" in asymmetrical terms will be immense. Afghanistan, Iraq will be permanent war zones (forever) as Iran will now be fully involved in funding and equipping insurgencies. Israel will also face more lethal Hezbollah and Hamas, basically destroying any chance of a peaceful resolution for the Palestinians-Israelis. Most likely this will also result in a "Fortress Israel" which will be doomed in the long term, much like Masada.... and these are just the regional consequences. Internationally, the involvement of China and Russia will still take place, but over a longer period of time, giving a chance for all parties to field the weapon systems that are currently in development.

Scenario #4: Iran going nuclear is not much of a possibility, at least not at this stage. But if it happens, it will cause the Saudis to start their own program. It will also make Israel to (most likely) officially declare its own capabilities. What this basically means is that its diesel submarines will then be patrolling the oceans armed with nuclear tipped cruise missiles (if they aren't already).


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The next 5 years one of these scenarios will come to pass. This will define this century, and this century will define the rest of human history. Of course, there is always the unexpected. A happy ending is theoretically possible even without scenario #1. But the chances of regional conflicts in many areas of the world increases exponentially if this opportunity is lost.

Personally, I think Scenario 3 will be the one we will be playing out. But what happens after, I don't know. There is a chance that after much violence (in regional wars) there might be a "global peace". However, by the time the world will be a very different place. It's either that, or... the (very real) possibility of another "great war", where these regional conflicts end up triggering a direct confrontation involving all the players (The West vs the East). Any such conflict will invariably result in Armageddon.
 
Obviously the path of peace is the one to follow here.

Who is courageous enough to walk it?
 
Within the next 5 years there will be a crucial moment which will define the next century..(middle omitted by wil)..Any such conflict will invariably result in Armageddon.
Which five year period in the past 70 years has this statement not been repeated?

Hate to say it, but me, I'll go on as scheduled. As this has been going on for longer than a hundred lifetimes and will continue long after my great-granchildren's great grandchildren's great-granchildren's great grandchildren are gone...
 
Actually, there's a key point you're missing - Iran is Shi'a and the majority of the Middle East is Sunni. There's plenty of tension among them already, and the majority Sunni powers seem resigned to having to accept Iran's increasing power in the region - a power I'm sure they wouldn't be too disappointed to see wane.

In that regard, any attack involving Israel may raise Arab protests - but they will remember that it was not Sunnis who were targeted, but Shi'as.
 
c0de,

The second 'prediction' in a week!! Gona have to start calling you 'Nostrac0dus' !

It is pretty difficult to see what will happen. But there is one certainty. Israel will under no circumstances allow Iran to go nuclear.
 
Brian + Tao

what up fellas


@ Brian

Actually, there's a key point you're missing - Iran is Shi'a and the majority of the Middle East is Sunni.
That point wasn't missed, but it was ruled as a non-factor in the case of an attack on Iran which includes Israel. The only reason I conceded this was a conversation I had with my prof who is a well versed commentator on the region (Emanuel Adler) and he had a very good reason for his assessment. He said that in the case of an attack on Iran which includes Israel, the political leanings of the arab nations won't matter. Their political leaderships will have no choice but to be carried away by their public opinion, which will overwhelmingly favor a reconciliation with Iran. The dictatorships and Sheikhdoms of the middle-east are already hanging on by a very thin thread. Any attack on Iran which includes Israel will be the straw that breaks the camels back (... is that a pun in this case? if so.. bonus points baby!!! :) )

This made sense to me so I agreed with it. It also explained something which was very confusing for me, namely: why the sale of Refuellers to Israel was blocked by the US? I was actually expecting Israel to be part of any attack on Iran before I talked to Adler. So I couldn't understand why the US would not allow this sale to go through.

But now, it seems clear to me that as much as the Arabs hate the Persians (and vice versa) they both hate the Israelis more (and Adler would know because he is an Israeli). Another factor to consider I think, is that ever since the Hezbollah "victory" in Lebanon, the Arabs have been very impressed with the Shias. So if you combine all these factors you can see that at this point, even an attack on Iran which doesn't include Israel has a high chance of uniting the Sunnis with the Shias. But most likely the Sunni governments in the region will remain pacified if Israel is not part of the coalition. Just like the Iraq wars.




@ Tao


The second 'prediction' in a week!!
Lets hope not man... This one would reeeeally suck.

It is pretty difficult to see what will happen. But there is one certainty. Israel will under no circumstances allow Iran to go nuclear.
I agree. Scenario 4 is VERY improbable. A nuclear Iran isn't really acceptable to anyone. I know even the Pakistanis aren't too exited about the possibility. Right now, we are the only nuclear "Muslim" country in the world, which gives us a sort of street cred in the Muslim world... and a nuclear Iran would take away some of our "lime light"

I am sure as much support Russia and China give to Iran, even they will not be much amused with a nuclearized Persia. However, the problem is that if Iran (and North Korea) actually want to go after the nuke, it is almost inevitable that they will get it, sooner or later. Unless there is actually a toppling of their government via violent means (with massive outside assistance).

The only thing keeping any country developing away from a nuclear devise is the threat of isolation via sanctions. And in the case of Iran and North Korea, they are already pretty isolated. For them its actually beneficial to keep threatening to develop nukes. But... its almost like playing Russian Roulette...

Gona have to start calling you 'Nostrac0dus' !
lol, that doesn't sound that bad akshully
 
I don't know and no one can really predict these things but there are pressures within Iran toward a more democratic society and one where the clergy lose power.. If that happens and I'm not sure how.. Iran will emerge as a more peaceful and open society and the nuclear developement could proceed along more peceful lines.

- Art:)
 
I don't know and no one can really predict these things but there are pressures within Iran toward a more democratic society and one where the clergy lose power.. If that happens and I'm not sure how.. Iran will emerge as a more peaceful and open society and the nuclear developement could proceed along more peceful lines.

- Art:)
With power comes responsibility. The nuclear club is small. But as things have gone in the past some country is working on becoming a nuclear power, much to the world's chagrine, much hand wringing is done about it...and then when it is apparent they have succeeded, wallah...they are part of the club.

And so far...still only one country has used that power against another people. The rest have maintained control and I doubt Iran will be any different. The reprecussions are too large to contemplate. But the power and the authority given by becoming part of the club...that is the goal...not have the stick, not to use it.
 
I don't know and no one can really predict these things but there are pressures within Iran toward a more democratic society and one where the clergy lose power.. If that happens and I'm not sure how.. Iran will emerge as a more peaceful and open society and the nuclear developement could proceed along more peceful lines.

- Art:)

A peaceful country can easily turn aggressive (potentially violent) again with the election or installation (ie. by coup de'tat) of a new government/executive branch.:eek:

But that could happen in any country, even in the U.S., particularly if living standards and education drops and racism becomes dominant again.
 
A peaceful country can easily turn aggressive (potentially violent) again with the election or installation (ie. by coup de'tat) of a new government/executive branch.:eek:

But that could happen in any country, even in the U.S., particularly if living standards and education drops and racism becomes dominant again.

You've just describing exactly what happened to the U.S. during the eight years of G. W. Bush.
 
You've just describing exactly what happened to the U.S. during the eight years of G. W. Bush.

Um . . . (* chuckle -- sheepishly -- chuckle *) lol yeah

It's been almost eight years and it doesn't look like the terrorists have achieved much. Something worse than that has happened: the global economic crisis.

The risk of getting blown up by a bomb and killed (in which case, you'd at least be dead and oblivious to the pain) isn't as bad spending several months without a regular job and regular pay and having your dreams of a life of luxury ruined. It's a fact of life that people die every day. More importantly, being dead is often better than living a life of misery.

The tragedy that hit America was self-inflicted, with millions of people living beyond their means, borrowing more money than they could realistically pay back. The greatest enemy is often within.

There is a great temptation to blame others but sooner or later, people just have to accept responsibility for their behaviour.

That may sound harsh, but what else am I supposed to say . . . ?

It was greed that brought the U.S. economy down. Utter recklessness.

If it's not respect for God then it's respect for humanity and it seems that the people who caused this disaster had neither. Someone deserves a spanking . . . This would be a good reason for reintroducing corporal punishment.

I wonder if the South Korean who shot 31 people in Virginia Tech had a legitimate cause. Here is a fragment of what he said:

You had everything you wanted. Your Mercedes wasn’t enough, you brats. Your golden necklaces weren’t enough, you snobs. Your trust fund wasn’t enough. Your vodka and Cognac weren’t enough. All your debaucheries weren’t enough. Those weren’t enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything.
The problem with the relentless capitalist pursuit of profits and personal gain, a culture of jealousy and envy, is that some people are left behind . . . what happened to humanity?
 
To respond to the OP...see what troubles religions bring.
Why are they armed and dangerous?
Why do they hate each other?
Why is there this continual strife?
Religion.
The manmade device which divides us all.
This creates the us and them mentality.
There is no us and them.....only we.
There is no "chosen" that does not include everyone of every race.
To think otherwise is to spread evil and hate.
All the good that religion may bring is nullified by the evil it also brings as it is all tainted with the leaven of enmity and strife.
How can that be removed?
Better to have no religion.
 

@ Shawn


Your assuming that if we take religion out of the picture, the crap will stop. Refer to history to see the error in your argument.
 
well, religion isn't helping now is it?
Do the Muslims and the Jews have any differences that couldn't be easily resolved if it were not for their religious differences.
It is only religion that is dividing one group from another right now.
And the examples of history where it is alleged that religion was taken out they just transubstantiated the state for god, so "religion" was still there, it just changed form a bit.
 
well, religion isn't helping now is it?
Do the Muslims and the Jews have any differences that couldn't be easily resolved if it were not for their religious differences.
It is only religion that is dividing one group from another right now.
And the examples of history where it is alleged that religion was taken out they just transubstantiated the state for god, so "religion" was still there, it just changed form a bit.


Define "religion"
 
Religion= a system of belief which guides human behavior, through mythologies, philosophies, moral and ethical codes which people cling onto with sometimes no substantial form of proof which empirically validates said beliefs.

Mohammedanism (Islam) and Judaism are religions which have a lot in common, yet we see many people who cannot discern the finer and more subtle points and so just see black and white, or Jew and Muslim.
These simpler intellects are the majority.
So how are the "religions" of these people helping them to see that for the Muslim that the Jew is his brother or sister and vice-versa.
Certainly there are factions which do teach this, but they are the minority.
That is my problem with these "religious" institutions, the majority teach division, to wit: we are chosen, you are not; you are an infidel, we are not, and as such we are going to have an eternity in bliss or heaven or the world to come....and you will not, but that is up to God/G-d.
These things/doctines are the spores of hatred and enmity in our world.
It boggles the mind to think that so many are ignorant of this.....it is so flipping obvious.
 
That is my problem with these "religious" institutions, the majority teach division, to wit: we are chosen, you are not; you are an infidel, we are not, and as such we are going to have an eternity in bliss or heaven or the world to come....and you will not.....it is so flipping obvious.

Pretty obvious to me too.

Leave the church.

Be a religion of one.
 
IMO Pakistan's turn will come before Iran, there are many reasons for that.

Americans have been spending money to create ethno-sectarian rifts in both Iran & Pakistan since the destruction of USSR. Iran is still very much united country. 97% Shia, & not so much difference between Persians & Azeri make it ethnically homogenous. Pakistan is 50% Punjabi, 20% Pashtun, 70% Sunni, 20% Shia, & there hasent been a lot of "pakistani" people around after 14th august 1947 (before Pakistan, there used to exist a lot of Pakistanis, how ironic). Baluchistan Liberation has been supported by US both in Iran & Pakistan, Iranian govt has almost destroyed this movement, while in Pakistan, they are slowly destroying Pak govt. If that wasent enough, US also has their employee taliban (Mahsud) blowing up people in Pakistan.Despite being kicked out by Mulla Umar from the orignal Taliban movement, he still uses the label "Taliban", & so do his American employers.

Some additional benefits of attacking Pakistan. It annihilates all Chinese dreams of having one foot in Pacific, & other in Indian ocean. Restricts easy chinese access to ME & North Africa, which increases their manufacturing cost considerably. Also, a huge supply of privitiseable agricultural lands & minerals. Attacking Iran from Pakistan is easier than attacking Pakistan from Iran too. And so is sending terrorists from Pakistan to Sinkiang & Tibet.

The only thing preventing US from doing this is the fact that they wont be able to destroy warheads & missiles completely. So whether in Iran or Pakistan, if there is one missile & warhead left intact, every Iranian & Pakistani knows what to do with it. Tell computer to locate TellAviv...fire....no second thoughts at all.

There is an interview of Brezinski & Kissinger about this somewhere on the net, do take a look. Both guys say that Netenyahu cant attack iran, he may talk a lot about it, but if he does actually go forward with it, its only ganna destroy all of US/Israeli plans. Both say Iran is "onboard", Pakistani forces/intellegence isnt (Govt is their puppy ofcourse).

So if you ask me, they will keep aiming towards Iran, & slowly keep injecting poison in Pakistan's veins. At the right time they will attack. Public opinion is being built slowly for that. All you need to attack a country is an attack on America & an ID card of the attacker. People are dumb, they will believe whatever you tell them. They believed that heat melted WTC but not plastic ID cards.

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There have been some 800 year old sufi prophecies about Pakistan. If you interpret classical persian in modern English, he says that WoT will spread from Afghanistan to N.W.Pakistan to Kashmir to Tibet. And at the end of it, Kabul river will turn red with foreign blood third time (First was British, second Soviet), India will invade Pakistan, & Af-Pak & China will eventually conqure North India.

And then Russia will attack Europe, to fight US.

------

Some more interesting prophecies

Baba Vanga predictions 2010 - 5079 Mr. Lighthead

2043...Islamic Europe....(You dont need to be a prophet to see that coming;))
2066...Americans attack muslims again....in Rome this time....:D
 
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