Couple: County Trying To Stop Home Bible Studies

[Dondi]

SAN DIEGO -- A local pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a San Diego County official, who then threatened them with escalating fines if they continued to hold Bible studies in their home, 10News reported...

...The county employee notified the couple that the small Bible study, with an average of 15 people attending, was in violation of County regulations, according to Broyles.

Source: 10NEWS - Couple: County Trying To Stop Home Bible Studies

What's becoming of our country when we cannot have free assembly and freedom of religion? This ain't China, you know.

 

[citizenzen]

Source: 10NEWS - Couple: County Trying To Stop Home Bible Studies

What's becoming of our country when we cannot have free assembly and freedom of religion? This ain't China, you know.

Maybe you (or that pastor) should have read the San Diego County Zoning Ordinace

The purpose of these provisions is to specify the range and combinations of uses necessary to meet requirements for residential and non-residential development within San Diego County as set forth in the policies and principles of the San Diego General Plan.

2100 INTENT

...These Use Regulations are intended to create and enhance areas where family residential uses are the principal and dominant use and where certain civic uses are conditionally permitted when they serve the needs of the residents...

2105 USES SUBJECT TO MAJOR USE PERMIT

The following use types are permitted by the RS, RD, RM, and RV Use Regulations, upon issuance of a Major Use Permit.

a. Civic Use Types

Administrative Services​

Child Care Center​

Clinic Services​

Community Recreation​

Cultural Exhibits and Library Services​

Group Care​

Lodge, Fraternal and Civic Assembly​

Major Impact Services and Utilities​

Parking Services​

Postal Services​

Religious Assembly​

No this ain't China, but this ain't kindergarten either. Once you're no longer wet behind the ears you shouldn't expect others to hold your hand.

Ignorance of the law, including zoning regulations is no excuse. These regulations are not arbitrarily meted out to just religious folk. The next time your county draws up a general plan, maybe you'd benefit by being involved in the process or at least take the time to read it after it's been enacted.

 

[Dondi]

Maybe you (or that pastor) should have read the San Diego County Zoning Ordinace

The purpose of these provisions is to specify the range and combinations of uses necessary to meet requirements for residential and non-residential development within San Diego County as set forth in the policies and principles of the San Diego General Plan.

2100 INTENT

...These Use Regulations are intended to create and enhance areas where family residential uses are the principal and dominant use and where certain civic uses are conditionally permitted when they serve the needs of the residents...

2105 USES SUBJECT TO MAJOR USE PERMIT

The following use types are permitted by the RS, RD, RM, and RV Use Regulations, upon issuance of a Major Use Permit.

a. Civic Use Types

Administrative Services
​

Child Care Center
​

Clinic Services
​

Community Recreation
​

Cultural Exhibits and Library Services
​

Group Care
​

Lodge, Fraternal and Civic Assembly
​

Major Impact Services and Utilities
​

Parking Services
​

Postal Services
​

Religious Assembly
​

No this ain't China, but this ain't kindergarten either. Once you're no longer wet behind the ears you shouldn't expect others to hold your hand.

Ignorance of the law, including zoning regulations is no excuse. These regulations are not arbitrarily meted out to just religious folk. The next time your county draws up a general plan, maybe you'd benefit by being involved in the process or at least take the time to read it after it's been enacted.

I appeal to a higher document:

U.S. CONSTITUTION - First Amendment

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

[citizenzen]

I appeal to a higher document:

U.S. CONSTITUTION - First Amendment

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

So let's throw out all local ordinances and plans altogether.

I was thinking about building a strip club next door to you. Now, maybe I can.

 

[seattlegal]

Maybe you (or that pastor) should have read the San Diego County Zoning Ordinace

The purpose of these provisions is to specify the range and combinations of uses necessary to meet requirements for residential and non-residential development within San Diego County as set forth in the policies and principles of the San Diego General Plan.

2100 INTENT

...These Use Regulations are intended to create and enhance areas where family residential uses are the principal and dominant use and where certain civic uses are conditionally permitted when they serve the needs of the residents...

2105 USES SUBJECT TO MAJOR USE PERMIT

The following use types are permitted by the RS, RD, RM, and RV Use Regulations, upon issuance of a Major Use Permit.

a. Civic Use Types

Administrative Services​

Child Care Center​

Clinic Services​

Community Recreation​

Cultural Exhibits and Library Services​

Group Care​

Lodge, Fraternal and Civic Assembly​

Major Impact Services and Utilities​

Parking Services​

Postal Services​

Religious Assembly​

No this ain't China, but this ain't kindergarten either. Once you're no longer wet behind the ears you shouldn't expect others to hold your hand.

Ignorance of the law, including zoning regulations is no excuse. These regulations are not arbitrarily meted out to just religious folk. The next time your county draws up a general plan, maybe you'd benefit by being involved in the process or at least take the time to read it after it's been enacted.

Let's see, if they were studying any book other than scripture, it would have been OK? Unbelievable.

 

[citizenzen]

Let's see, if they were studying any book other than scripture, it would have been OK? Unbelievable.

Do you think that the county flies black helicopters searching for cars with fish affixed to them?

What you are ignoring is that their own neighbors probably complained about it... probably because their "residential" street was being filled with cars on a regular basis.

I did a quick search of churches in San Diego County and came up with over 650. Isn't it reasonable for these groups to rent a room in one of these churches instead of negatively impacting their neighborhood? Isn't that what the regulations were made for in the first place?

 

[seattlegal]

Do you think that the county flies black helicopters searching for cars with fish affixed to them?

What you are ignoring is that their own neighbors probably complained about it... probably because their "residential" street was being filled with cars on a regular basis.

I did a quick search of churches in San Diego County and came up with over 650. Isn't it reasonable for these groups to rent a room in one of these churches instead of negatively impacting their neighborhood? Isn't that what the regulations were made for in the first place?

Actually, I think it is probably more related to the City trying to extract money from people wherever they can. If they paid the money for their "use permit," how would any complaints by the neighbors be handled? {Probably with the statement, "They have the necessary permits..."}

 

[citizenzen]

Actually, I think it is probably more related to the City trying to extract money from people wherever they can. If they paid the money for their "use permit," how would any complaints by the neighbors be handled? {Probably with the statement, "They have the necessary permits..."}

Any permits would most likely have gone through a review process allowing the neighbors to have some input over the negative impact... they would have had some say in the matter.

 

[citizenzen]

Here's a little story from my life...

I grew up in Sebastopol, California, in a quiet rural rural countryside filled with orchards, forests and residences. My father wanted to build a winery on our property and a process that we initially thought would be easy, turned arduous.

Our neighbors, who lived a good distance from the proposed winery, fought us through every board and court they could. They dreamed up scenarios that were virtually apocalyptic. One would think we were building the gates to Hell and not a small family winery.

But we went through the process. The land was zoned for that use. We filled out all the necessary permits. We addressed every point brought up to defeat us. I don't know how much money it cost my father, but it must have been considerable. In the end we won and built that winery.

So you'll have to excuse me if I don't feel a great deal of sympathy for this San Diego couple. One, their land is not zoned for that use (based on regulations established nearly 30 years ago). Two, if they wanted to use the land for that purpose, they could. They would just have to apply for the permit and allow their neighbors an opportunity to address this issue openly and let whatever governing body decide whether the use was appropriate or not.

So please think about that before we start losing our cookies and crying "communism!" This is a process faced by many people every day all across this country and somehow others have managed to find their way through it without bawling to the press about how persecuted they were.

 

[seattlegal]

I suppose they could have lied and said, "We're not studying the bible. We're having an orgy."

 

[Tao_Equus]

Salient points all CZ. Dondi and SG, it surprises me that both of you choose not to see the logic behind the restriction that CZ has made absolutely clear. As for the orgy, well maybe they do a bit of that after they have finished the gobbledygook session. My experience of the 'fish' people is such that that would fit the bill. Maybe a little child torture thrown in for good measure. With over 650 churches why do they have to hide away in a private residence after all?

 

[seattlegal]

Salient points all CZ. Dondi and SG, it surprises me that both of you choose not to see the logic behind the restriction that CZ has made absolutely clear. As for the orgy, well maybe they do a bit of that after they have finished the gobbledygook session. My experience of the 'fish' people is such that that would fit the bill. Maybe a little child torture thrown in for good measure. With over 650 churches why do they have to hide away in a private residence after all?

Not all religion has been taken over and converted to a commercial business.

 

[seattlegal]

I can tell you this much: if the county I live in were to try to pull this sort of thing here, and wouldn't come to a reasonable compromise, all hell would break loose around here.

 

[iBrian]

Actually, I think it is probably more related to the City trying to extract money from people wherever they can.

I thought religious groups were tax exempt?

I suppose they could have lied and said, "We're not studying the bible. We're having an orgy."

We had a similar situation in Inverness recently - apparently a few Philippino hookers had set up "shop" in a quiet residential street. The neighbours were getting very annoyed by the extra traffic and blocked parking that resulted.

 

[Tao_Equus]

Not all religion has been taken over and converted to a commercial business.

I attend a couple of monthly group meetings at the quaker hall on prime city centre property. The hire of the room costs less than half of the first round of drinks in the pub afterwards if we get 15 attending. Here schools also hire out rooms in the evening for a nominal fee. You can find a place to meet easily and cheaply and there is no right to impose on residential areas. 15 extra cars in my street would mean a serious inconvenience and danger to the residents here including many elderly and severely disabled people. It could easily hamper the provision of emergency services.

I can tell you this much: if the county I live in were to try to pull this sort of thing here, and wouldn't come to a reasonable compromise, all hell would break loose around here.

Then I am happy that I live here and not there.

We had a similar situation in Inverness recently - apparently a few Philippino hookers had set up "shop" in a quiet residential street. The neighbours were getting very annoyed by the extra traffic and blocked parking that resulted.

Wondered why it took you so long to come to the classroom!!

 

[seattlegal]

I attend a couple of monthly group meetings at the quaker hall on prime city centre property. The hire of the room costs less than half of the first round of drinks in the pub afterwards if we get 15 attending. Here schools also hire out rooms in the evening for a nominal fee. You can find a place to meet easily and cheaply and there is no right to impose on residential areas. 15 extra cars in my street would mean a serious inconvenience and danger to the residents here including many elderly and severely disabled people. It could easily hamper the provision of emergency services.

He is the pastor of a nearby church. These gatherings are on Tuesday nights for dinner at his private home and bible discussion. He owns the vacant lot next door to his house, which is where his guests park.

Should SD Bible Studies Require Permits? - San Diego 6

Then I am happy that I live here and not there.

It's not like the folks around here are overly religious, but they ARE uppity when it comes to the Government dictating what you can and cannot do in your own home. What if they were eating dinner and playing scrabble instead of discussing the bible? I meet with my family every week to play scrabble. If the County were to say that we needed to get a permit in order to do that, they would really have a fight on their hands.

 

[seattlegal]

Then I am happy that I live here and not there.

Would you object to a weekly meeting where a dozen or so people got together for dinner and to study the Kama Sutra, model lingerie, and discuss their favorite sex toys? (There are folks out here who have gatherings like that.)

 

[Tao_Equus]

He is the pastor of a nearby church. These gatherings are on Tuesday nights for dinner at his private home and bible discussion. He owns the vacant lot next door to his house, which is where his guests park.

Ok. You caught me out. I failed to read the links and take into account the individual circumstances. If the logistics of dealing with traffic and any nuisance to neighbours is minimal then they have every right to meet there. (though I still am not going to click the link ).

It's not like the folks around here are overly religious, but they ARE uppity when it comes to the Government dictating what you can and cannot do in your own home. What if they were eating dinner and playing scrabble instead of discussing the bible? I meet with my family every week to play scrabble. If the County were to say that we needed to get a permit in order to do that, they would really have a fight on their hands.

But what if it was kids meeting to rev the engines in their cars before singing their urban hymns and sharing a bbq and beer in one of their homes? You'd want something done.....right? Because I would happily tolerate that more easily than having to hear a choir practice.

Would you object to a weekly meeting where a dozen or so people got together for dinner and to study the Kama Sutra, model lingerie, and discuss their favorite sex toys? (There are folks out here who have gatherings like that.)

Yeh we have them here. They are called Ann Summers parties. The provide a sexual education service too though. They even make it into a game by having a competition to see who can put a condom on a dildo the fastest and best. These are woman only events of course so that maybe hearsay. But it is really just a commercial venture by a company that also has a shop in Edinburgh's most high profile shopping street. They sell cheap tacky underwear and vibrators that fall to bits very easily but that some women love anyway. The 'home party' thing though is never a monthly event at a single home. It sort of rotates round a circle of female friends.

 

[wil]

He is the pastor of a nearby church. These gatherings are on Tuesday nights for dinner at his private home and bible discussion. He owns the vacant lot next door to his house, which is where his guests park..

If that is the case, how did Johnny law get involved? Someone had to complain about traffic, some other issue to bring them in.

A one time party may violate some sort of zoning but most neighbors put up with it.

Face it, if it was an every tuesday night orgy or wife swapping or amway meeting or band practice and disturbed the neighbors on a regular basis someone would complain and the law would step in.

This has nothing to do with a bible study, they are just making it so.

 

[citizenzen]

Three months ago a nearby church was paid by Verizon to put a cell tower in its parking lot. The neighbors mobilized a movement to stop the tower and for three months did everything they could to prevent the tower from being installed.

I on the other hand, did not oppose the tower. I think the fears of frying our brains with electromagnetic radiation is unfounded and it was the churches property, so they should be able to do with it what they wish.

This issue is filled with gray areas. That's why municipalities make these regulations in the first place. I'm sure in this case some compromise will be reached.

I just wanted to head off the peasants with their torches and pitchforks before they stormed the castle. A good night's rest will clear everybody's head and we can talk about it in the morning.