what the **** is up with this?????

[Avi]

CZ, the dynamic has shifted and you have to understand the change. The current leaders of the Repubs. are Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin. With this combo in place the Dems. have a real opportunity for change. The opponents are now a couple of Keystone Cops. With this situation in place the Dems. do not need to act hastily and without diliberation. They know what needs to be done and the changes are in motion.

Obama has his own idealogues. Last week when Robert Reich spoke out for change I was there supporting him. I didn't see you defend his argument.

Rahm Emanuel has been temporarily silenced by the Repubs., here is an example of how they did it:

http://books.google.com/books?id=PJ...i=SluHSofjBqCQkATgqvX7CQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false

But Rahm will be back swinging soon. I will look to you for support of his agenda for change when he does so.

Having said this, I see that your expectations for timing are unrealistic. One year is too fast, even one term is probably too soon for major improvement. We are looking at 5 - 10 years maybe longer. Sorry to disappoint you. Reality is sometimes hard to accept !!

 

[citizenzen]

Having said this, I see that your expectations for timing are unrealistic. One year is too fast, even one term is probably too soon for major improvement. We are looking at 5 - 10 years maybe longer. Sorry to disappoint you. Reality is sometimes hard to accept !!

One year is not too fast to change the dialogue.

One year is not too fast to show you have backbone.

I'm 48 years old... comfortable in my lifestyle... I could live with this reality for the rest of my life. But I'm trying to change it for those less fortunate than me and for future generations who'll have to deal with the legacy we leave behind.

Obama proving to be just another cog in the machine. We're not getting "change we can believe in," we're getting "more of the same" piled higher and deeper. THAT'S reality.

At least you're happy with it.

 

[seattlegal]

Oh btw, Obama is speaking out against the rhetoric and lies about death panels, gov't ruled health care etc. It is just these speeches aren't making the news...

We must remember the news stations despite leaning left are funded by the commercial money from big business and in a recession every dollar counts, don't piss off the hand that feeds ya...

Either way, the American people lose, because managed care {be it corporate or governmental} sucks!

{Now, back to the bunker busting depleted uranium. Oh wait, maybe this whole managed health care thing is radioactive as well, and really isn't so far off topic...}

 

[shawn]

{Now, back to the bunker busting depleted uranium. Oh wait, maybe this whole managed health care thing is radioactive as well, and really isn't so far off topic...}

I suppose I could say WTF is up with this thread, but it has been amusing to read it.
One could think about all the veterans who will need health care from unnecessary uranium poisoning, perhaps that should be given free of charge.
Chelation therapy with EDTA and zeolite works, but why should they have to pay.
Make the gov't pay.
Better yet make Halliburton and the gang pay.

 

[citizenzen]

Either way, the American people lose, because managed care {be it corporate or governmental} sucks!

How would you propose to provide health care to 300 million people without some kind of management?

 

[seattlegal]

How would you propose to provide health care to 300 million people without some kind of management?

I like how the ancient Chinese did it: pay your doctor a certain percentage of your earnings to keep you well. If you get sick and can't work, the doctor doesn't get paid during your downtime. With this system, incompetent doctors will quickly be flushed out of the system. Doctors will self-network for specialists as needed, so there is no need for an expensive corporate or government bureaucracy. There is a greater financial payoff for curing disease, rather than the system we have where there is more profit in keeping people sick and managing their symptoms rather than curing them. And best of all, NO BUREAUCRACY! There's no government or corporate wonks meddling in the doctor-patient relationship. {Oh yeah, did I mention, no bureaucrazy? }

 

[seattlegal]

There's no government or corporate wonks meddling in the doctor-patient relationship.

Oh, did I say wonks?

I was actually thinking ****ing parasites!

 

[citizenzen]

I like how the ancient Chinese did it: pay your doctor a certain percentage of your earnings to keep you well. If you get sick and can't work, the doctor doesn't get paid during your downtime. With this system, incompetent doctors will quickly be flushed out of the system. Doctors will self-network for specialists as needed, so there is no need for an expensive corporate or government bureaucracy.

I don't know SG... how would your system deal with pre-existing conditions? Would a doctor ever want to treat a sickly, perhaps even terminal child? What would be the incentive? It might never be healthy or able to work. What about the elderly? They may no longer be working and the degree of their "wellness" could easily be questioned. What doctor would want to take them as patients?

When a doctor networks with a specialist, who pays the specialist? If they need to refer to the specialist it must be because the patient isn't getting better... so the doctor isn't being paid in the first place. Do you really think the unpaid doctor is going to convince a specialist to take on a case for which they might not get paid as well?

Your system sounds like just another version of our current system where all of the incentive is geared towards taking healthy people's money and denying care to those that need it most. Sorry, SG, but I'll take bureaucrats over that any day.

 

[seattlegal]

I don't know SG... how would your system deal with pre-existing conditions? Would a doctor ever want to treat a sickly, perhaps even terminal child? What would be the incentive?

Are you kidding? A talented doctor who can actually cure patients? (Gee, no market for that, huh?)

It might never be healthy or able to work. What about the elderly? They may no longer be working and the degree of their "wellness" could easily be questioned. What doctor would want to take them as patients?

Gee, how about a talented young doctor looking to establish themselves as an actual healer?

When a doctor networks with a specialist, who pays the specialist?

I'd leave that up to the doctors and the patients, rather than to a bunch of parasitic wonks, any day. {What a concept! Doctors running health care? Who'd have thunk it?}

If they need to refer to the specialist it must be because the patient isn't getting better... so the doctor isn't being paid in the first place. Do you really think the unpaid doctor is going to convince a specialist to take on a case for which they might not get paid as well?

Gee, if the specialist can establish themselves as someone who can actually heal people, they won't have a problem. (I told you that the untalented doctors would be quickly weeded out.)

Your system sounds like just another version of our current system where all of the incentive is geared towards taking healthy people's money and denying care to those that need it most. Sorry, SG, but I'll take bureaucrats over that any day.

ROFLMAO!
Why don't we put the "blue" bureaucratic wonks, the "red" bureaucratic wonks, and the corporate and lobbyist wonks all together on a reality show set much like The Truman Show where they can all "wonk" each other, and let the rest of us get on with life in peace?

 

[citizenzen]

Are you kidding? A talented doctor who can actually cure patients? (Gee, no market for that, huh?)

Gee, how about a talented young doctor looking to establish themselves as an actual healer?

Some people don't get cured SG. You seem to forget that.

 

[Joedjr]

I like how the ancient Chinese did it: pay your doctor a certain percentage of your earnings to keep you well. If you get sick and can't work, the doctor doesn't get paid during your downtime.

Wow, you mean I won't be in debt for the rest of my life, if I unfortunately need the hospital for any length of time. Where can I vote!

 

[citizenzen]

[youtube]m4kRlhpWTaY[/youtube]

This is what we need from Obama (Montana town hall).

Get out there and sell the plan, and don't let the republicans and "blue dogs" determine the agenda.

Lead baby! Lead!!!

 

[seattlegal]

Some people don't get cured SG. You seem to forget that.

Let's see, the system we have now financially rewards foregoing a cure in favor of keeping the disease chronic so the maximum profit can be extracted by managing the symptoms, whereas with the ancient Chinese system, curing a condition gets the most financial reward, and managing the symptoms of something that cannot be cured runs a pale second? Tell me, which of the two systems is more set up to actually develop and provide cures, financially rewarding health, and which of the two systems is set up to keep people sick and sell them pharmaceuticals in order to maximize profit, financially rewarding illness? Gee this isn't like it's rocket science, or anything.

 

[seattlegal]

What about the elderly? They may no longer be working and the degree of their "wellness" could easily be questioned.

Gee, people in power will actually have to think about having the younger people taking care of them in their old age? That might make them think twice about spending so much money and pushing the debt off onto the future generations. What a concept!

 

[Avi]

This is what we need from Obama (Montana town hall).

Get out there and sell the plan, and don't let the republicans and "blue dogs" determine the agenda.

Lead baby! Lead!!!

Good video CZ, so now you can see why I am a supporter. Obama understands the problems, he has a vision, he articulates the vision.

Now he needs to use the "bully pulpit" to make Congress move. That is the tough part. It is like whipping a statue.

 

[citizenzen]

Gee, people in power will actually have to think about having the younger people taking care of them in their old age? That might make them think twice about spending so much money and pushing the debt off onto the future generations. What a concept!

So your ancient Chinese medicine will not only cure the sick, but it will also balance the federal budget and end consumer credit debt?

It is a miracle indeed.

One wonders... if it works so well... why is it ancient Chinese medicine, and not current Chinese medicine?

 

[seattlegal]

More than 1,820 tons of radio active nuclear waste uranium (DU) were exploded into Iraq alone in the form of armor piercing rounds and bunker busters, representing the worlds worst man made ecological disaster ever.
For contrast, only 64 kg of uranium were used in the Hiroshima bomb.

THE U.S. IRAQ NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST REPRESENTS FAR MORE THAN FOURTEEN THOUSAND HIROSHIMA'S.

The nuclear waste the U.S. has exploded into the Middle East will continue killing for billions of years and can wipe out more than a third of life on earth.
Gulf War Veterans who have ingested the uranium will continue to die off over a number of years.
So far more than one million people have been slaughtered in the illegal invasion of Iraqi by the U.S. Birth defects are up 600% in Iraq - the same will apply to U.S. Veterans.

And where is the world outrage?????
WTF is up with this.
This is just too bizarre.

Don't eat any food or beverage imports from that part of the world, that is for sure.

Well shawn, it looks like this load of depleted uranium has been hijacked. Shall we warn the hijackers to watch out for radiation poisoning, or should we let them figure it out for themselves?

 

[earl]

An effective healthcare system has to be about both preventive and acute care-there will always be a significant need for the latter. As Obama rightfully reminds folks, we've long had a "socialized" healthcare program called Medicare. It may not be perfect, but where would millions of folks be without it? I'm afraid Palin has sunk to a real low point in my estimation parroting the ridiculous charge of death panels. Either she's a total idiot or a demogogue. Kindest option for considering her (and other arch-conservatives like her), would be that she's an idiot. earl

 

[Faithfulservant]

I feel like im in some alternate reality. I have 3 elderly women in my life that have extensive health problems and out of the mouth of Obama they would be given pain medicine and sent home rather than be afforded the treatment that might extend their lives.

I pay a lot of money for damned good insurance. I can go to any doctor I want to ( the very best ) without referrals ( and no waiting lists ) and everything is covered minus my co-pay. Its the best investment Ive made and has paid off in just the past year with my sons 3 week hospital stay b/c of pnemonia plus 2 eye surgeries correcting strabismus. all I owed out of pocket were the co-pays. Im really really scared for the future. The elderly people of this country are really really scared.

Dont bother blasting me with anti Bush crap..Obama is not proving to hold life sacred either.. This is about me being afraid of what I see as a negative change impacting MY life and the lives of my loved ones.

 

[citizenzen]

I feel like im in some alternate reality. I have 3 elderly women in my life that have extensive health problems and out of the mouth of Obama they would be given pain medicine and sent home rather than be afforded the treatment that might extend their lives.

If you're going to make an accusation like that, would you care to provide any evidence to back it up?